Long hitters playing from the tips regardless of handicap

[jkim27]

Alright so I've only seen one other thread on playing from the tips, and a lot of people just comment about pace of play in that thread.

 

Assuming pace of play is not an issue, should long/straight hitters play from the tips regardless of handicap??

 

Our group has indexes ranging from 6 to 20, and everyone even the 20 handicapper is long (280 yards+) and fairly straight. I am trying to convince them that we should be playing from the tips based on our driving distances - I don't like playing from the whites (6300-6500) as I find myself hitting long irons on most tees.

 

I don't think moving back to the tips will actually affect our scores very much, since driving is not the part of our games that suck. Short approaches, chipping and putting is where we need improvement and will lower our indexes. You may argue that playing from longer tees gives you longer iron shots in, but for all of us it honestly doesn't matter if we hit 7 iron from 180 or a SW from 90 we have the same chance of hitting the green (sad but true).

[heatedwire]

Should or could...?

 

There's no reason you couldn't play from the tips if you are capable of hitting the fairway, and playing your 2nd or 3rd shot to a GIR. However plenty of people (myself included) prefer to take long irons from the tee box than driver on every second hole. I find golf more interesting this way (obviously i'd like to take driver on SOME holes). I find myself working the ball in both directions more often, and enjoy the round more when i'm doing this.

 

If you're playing with the same people regularly, why not just switch around who gets to choose the tee box?

[Augster]

Play shorter tees until everyone is decent at golf, then move back a set.

 

Everyone loves the 22 cap that claims a set of tees is “too short” for them as they shoot 85. If he’s shooting 85, he should be moving up.

 

Moving up makes scoring easier. Moving back makes scoring harder. It is that simple. Nobody wants to watch a guy shoot 95 from the tips. If a player’s cap is over 10, they should move up and work on the scoring game until they get into single digits. Then move back a tee.

 

We are making a HUGE assumption that pace is the same, and not an issue, but I’ll let that be. Assuming pace is good (completely empty course for example) play whatever tees make you happy. Some people want to shoot 78, even if it’s from the golds with a 64.4 CR. Others have the most fun playing the WHOLE course and getting beat down. Shooting an 85 from the tips is way more fulfilling, for me, than shooting 78 from the golds. Either way is an awful round, par is 72 from both, the round from the tips is less awful.

 

Driving distances isn’t the reason to move back. Challenging yourself is. My friend hits it 240 with a slice and plays to +1 this summer. Should he move up because of his distance? He only plays the tips, all the time, because it’s the biggest challenge the course can throw at him and he’s certainly good enough to try beating par each day. Shooting 67 from a forward tee box, while fun, isn’t exactly challenging for him.

 

[BrandonDunes]

Most courses have recommended tees based on handicap on the scorecard

[davep043]

> @jkim27 said:

 

> I don't think moving back to the tips will actually affect our scores very much, since driving is not the part of our games that suck. Short approaches, chipping and putting is where we need improvement and will lower our indexes. You may argue that playing from longer tees gives you longer iron shots in, but for all of us it honestly doesn't matter if we hit 7 iron from 180 or a SW from 90 we have the same chance of hitting the green (sad but true).

My best guess is that the last sentence isn't accurate, but I'll take it at face value. If you're not hitting the greens with wedges, you need to practice the wedges. Keep playing the shorter tees until you can actually score from them.

 

[Under2hours]

How a 20 can hit it 280 & **_straight_** and not be a much better golfer makes no sense whatsoever. If you can hit it that far & straight, no reason you should be having issues hitting Irons/wedges.

 

We play the tips on Saturday & my score is always higher & I struggle. Very simply I am a short hitter. Where anything over 400 means two really good shots to hit the green, @ 440 it is 3 shots for sure. Two of our five par 3's I can't hit the green & a few holes reaching the fairway may not happen. The good news is no forced carries or hazards come into play.

[SNIPERBBB]

Moving back isn't going to help your short game, it will pressure it more certainly as your going to have more awkward misses because your dispersiot will be wider due to the longer clubs.

 

Now you are right in that it will lower your index assuming you shoot the same scores due to rating changes.

[davep043]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> Moving back isn't going to help your short game, it will pressure it more certainly as your going to have more awkward misses because your dispersiot will be wider due to the longer clubs.

>

> Now you are right in that it will lower your index assuming you shoot the same scores due to rating changes.

 

The OP claims that they'll hit just as many greens from 180 yards as they will from half that distance. The way I read the OP, @jkim27 is also guessing that their scores won't change when they move back a set of tees. My guess is that he's wrong, they'll miss way more greens, and the scores WILL go up. I have no way of knowing how much, but I'd bet he'd be surprised.

[North Butte]

Choice of tees is the same as any other golf behavior. If you're not damaging the course or adversely affecting other golfers then do whatever you find to be the most fun.

 

Nobody wants to be in a group behind the guys who are playing the tips and taking 4-5 whacks on every Par 4 to get close to the green so in a case like that they are being inconsiderate by holding up the pace of play. But if there's nobody behind them and they want to waste 5 hours and a dozen balls playing a course 1,000 yards too long for the, they ought to follow their joy.

[SNIPERBBB]

Well maybe but they are on greens that you can land two military cargo helicopters I'd believe it. Course like mine that are only a 20-30 yards deep and 8-15 yards wide you don't have much room to miss.

[davep043]

> @"North Butte" said:

> Choice of tees is the same as any other golf behavior. If you're not damaging the course or adversely affecting other golfers then do whatever you find to be the most fun.

>

> Nobody wants to be in a group behind the guys who are playing the tips and taking 4-5 whacks on every Par 4 to get close to the green so in a case like that they are being inconsiderate by holding up the pace of play. But if there's nobody behind them and they want to waste 5 hours and a dozen balls playing a course 1,000 yards too long for the, they ought to follow their joy.

 

I agree, pace of play is the only reason that any of us should care about what other people choose to do. My comments were basically critical of the OP's reasoning, I think he's probably wrong in a number of his assumptions. First, I've never seen a long straight 20-handicapper. Second, they will NOT hit as many greens from 180 as they do from 90. Third, their scores WILL increase when the play significantly longer tees. But if they don't slow down other groups, they should play whichever tees they want to play.

[molecularman]

If you aren't holding up pace of play, and you get more enjoyment out of playing from the tips - then go for it! The biggest issue about playing from the tips IMO is pace of play. If you aren't holding up folks or impeding their enjoyment on the course, then do whatever you want. Everyone has a right to enjoy themselves out there.

[North Butte]

> @davep043 said:

>First, I've never seen a long straight 20-handicapper.

True.

>Second, they will NOT hit as many greens from 180 as they do from 90.

True.

> Third, their scores WILL increase when the play significantly longer tees.

True.

[MountainKing]

How does somebody who hits 280, fairly straight, play to a 20 handicap? That isn't adding up.

[MountainKing]

Oh and the game is judged/based on par. If you aren't shooting around par from a shorter distance then you probably shouldn't move back to the tips, work on the rest of the game.

[J13]

Agree. Play the tee's that allow you to score. If they are longer hitters but are 20hcp'ers they need all the help they can get with approach shots

[North Butte]

> @MountainKing said:

> Oh and the game is judged/based on par. If you aren't shooting around par from a shorter distance then you probably shouldn't move back to the tips, work on the rest of the game.

 

I doubt I would consistently shoot around par on a 4,500 yard course. At least not if it had contoured greens protected by bunkers and water like a normal course.

 

You assume proficiency in wedge and short game. In my experience, that is not something one can take for granted from a 20 handicapper.

[Newby]

A 20 capper with a straight 280 yard drive, and a decent short game is called a sandbagger. ;)

[MountainKing]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > Oh and the game is judged/based on par. If you aren't shooting around par from a shorter distance then you probably shouldn't move back to the tips, work on the rest of the game.

>

> I doubt I would consistently shoot around par on a 4,500 yard course. At least not if it had contoured greens protected by bunkers and water like a normal course.

>

> You assume proficiency in wedge and short game. In my experience, that is not something one can take for granted from a 20 handicapper.

 

I'm not sure what your game is like but I would guess on a 4500 yard course that's a par 72 you'd be putting up a pretty reasonable score if you're a low cap.

[North Butte]

I am very nearly a 20 handicap. Lately at least

[SNIPERBBB]

> @MountainKing said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > > @MountainKing said:

> > > Oh and the game is judged/based on par. If you aren't shooting around par from a shorter distance then you probably shouldn't move back to the tips, work on the rest of the game.

> >

> > I doubt I would consistently shoot around par on a 4,500 yard course. At least not if it had contoured greens protected by bunkers and water like a normal course.

> >

> > You assume proficiency in wedge and short game. In my experience, that is not something one can take for granted from a 20 handicapper.

>

> I'm not sure what your game is like but I would guess on a 4500 yard course that's a par 72 you'd be putting up a pretty reasonable score if you're a low cap.

 

Not necessarily... You can make a course of that yardage brutal...forced layups, small hard sloping greens, pot bunkers, tight tree iined fairways...

[cmagnusson]

> @jkim27 said:

 

> Assuming pace of play is not an issue, should long/straight hitters play from the tips regardless of handicap??

>

 

 

> @Augster said:

> Assuming pace is good (completely empty course for example) play whatever tees make you happy. Some people want to shoot 78, even if it’s from the golds with a 64.4 CR. Others have the most fun playing the WHOLE course and getting beat down. Shooting an 85 from the tips is way more fulfilling, for me, than shooting 78 from the golds.

 

I'm gonna second Augster here. The only thing that matters (outside of PoP) is are you going to enjoy yourself. Is it more fun to shoot 80 from the Reds or 90 from the Blacks? Figure that out, then you do you.

 

I'm a 14-15 handicap, my average drive is around 275-280. Do I have fun shooting 80-82 from the whites hitting 10 5-irons off the tee? Sometimes, usually, yeah. Do I sometimes prefer to shoot an 87-89 and hit driver a whole bunch? Absolutely. We play the blues once in a while just to switch things up, keep it fresh. When I play a new course I always play the tips the first time just to see the full challenge, then I'll go back and play the whites to see what happens if I actually try to go low.

[llewol007]

Why???? Long hitters if they are just too long cant they take out a 3 wood or even a driving iron. I hit it long as well but I do not feel the need to take out my driver unless the risk reward factor line up. There probably is a reason why they are higher handicappers. The description does not add up for me. You said they are long and straight but yet are hanging in the 6-20 handicap? Playing the tips just means you have to hit it longer.

[tanker44]

I would never try to change what works for a regular men's group of mixed skill. I'm near scratch and I play in two regular weekend games. I have the game where there are 20 guys mixed skills but its a net game and we play stock tees. As a scratch I basically have to shoot 5 under to have a chance. They even do net skins and payout pars. There is very little joy I get out of this game but the guys are my friends and a good time. I then have my scratch game but there are typically only 6-8 guys where we play it back/gross and for good money. I love this game because its competition with a level playing field. Net games are a waste of time for better players because of sandbagging which is an entirely different problem/topic. Don't waste your time trying to change what these got have in place. You're better off finding a scratch game as a second option.

Otherwise, youre just going to piss off some high handicappers who like playing it shorter w/ pops so they can compete. This is my experience. I have found every group is different but the common theme with nearly all of them is if it ain't broke don't fix it. Good luck.

[Z1ggy16]

> @davep043 said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > Moving back isn't going to help your short game, it will pressure it more certainly as your going to have more awkward misses because your dispersiot will be wider due to the longer clubs.

> >

> > Now you are right in that it will lower your index assuming you shoot the same scores due to rating changes.

>

> The OP claims that they'll hit just as many greens from 180 yards as they will from half that distance. The way I read the OP, @jkim27 is also guessing that their scores won't change when they move back a set of tees. My guess is that he's wrong, they'll miss way more greens, and the scores WILL go up. I have no way of knowing how much, but I'd bet he'd be surprised.

 

It sounds like somebody who doesn't actually keep stats and just anecdotally takes data from their brain. I feel like in golf and in sports in general, we tend to never think in averages, only in extremes. I find it hard to believe somebody is hitting the same % GIR from 180 as 90, especially if they hit it 280+ and straight. If I had 90 yards to every single pin as my second shot, I'd probably be a 3 or 4 HC, but instead I'm a 12 because I have to hit mid and sometimes long irons at greens.

 

Usually what I've seen is you play the tee box according to handicap, and not driver distance. If you can bomb it 280 and straight but you still shoot 95, then you need to be giving yourself a lot more short irons and wedges into greens, because the short game must be lagging. That or.... you hit 1 drive 280 and straight and the rest were 280 and in the next fairway/trees but you remember that one time you smoked one.

[jkim27]

> @Newby said:

> A 20 capper with a straight 280 yard drive, and a decent short game is called a sandbagger. ;)

 

Haha I swear he hits it straight down the fairway, will chunk two wedges, get on the green then 3 putt and make double. He'll do that at least 4-5 times a round.

[MountainKing]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > @MountainKing said:

> > > > Oh and the game is judged/based on par. If you aren't shooting around par from a shorter distance then you probably shouldn't move back to the tips, work on the rest of the game.

> > >

> > > I doubt I would consistently shoot around par on a 4,500 yard course. At least not if it had contoured greens protected by bunkers and water like a normal course.

> > >

> > > You assume proficiency in wedge and short game. In my experience, that is not something one can take for granted from a 20 handicapper.

> >

> > I'm not sure what your game is like but I would guess on a 4500 yard course that's a par 72 you'd be putting up a pretty reasonable score if you're a low cap.

>

> Not necessarily... You can make a course of that yardage brutal...forced layups, small hard sloping greens, pot bunkers, tight tree iined fairways...

 

Okay let's be realistic here, at 4500 yards, you're averaging 250 yards per hole. Unless these forced layups are forcing you to hit a 50 yard tee shot and leaving 200 yards in, a low hcp golfer is still going to do pretty well there. Realistically you're par 3's will be under 125, your par 5's will be 350-400 and that'll leave plenty of par 4's you can hit in one with a long iron. Even with a brutal short game (which if you're a low cap it's probably not that brutal) you're doing well on that course cause of yardage.

[jkim27]

> @Z1ggy16 said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > Moving back isn't going to help your short game, it will pressure it more certainly as your going to have more awkward misses because your dispersiot will be wider due to the longer clubs.

> > >

> > > Now you are right in that it will lower your index assuming you shoot the same scores due to rating changes.

> >

> > The OP claims that they'll hit just as many greens from 180 yards as they will from half that distance. The way I read the OP, @jkim27 is also guessing that their scores won't change when they move back a set of tees. My guess is that he's wrong, they'll miss way more greens, and the scores WILL go up. I have no way of knowing how much, but I'd bet he'd be surprised.

>

> It sounds like somebody who doesn't actually keep stats and just anecdotally takes data from their brain. I feel like in golf and in sports in general, we tend to never think in averages, only in extremes. I find it hard to believe somebody is hitting the same % GIR from 180 as 90, especially if they hit it 280+ and straight. If I had 90 yards to every single pin as my second shot, I'd probably be a 3 or 4 HC, but instead I'm a 12 because I have to hit mid and sometimes long irons at greens.

>

> Usually what I've seen is you play the tee box according to handicap, and not driver distance. If you can bomb it 280 and straight but you still shoot 95, then you need to be giving yourself a lot more short irons and wedges into greens, because the short game must be lagging. That or.... you hit 1 drive 280 and straight and the rest were 280 and in the next fairway/trees but you remember that one time you smoked one.

 

Just for the record we do keep stats, and at least for me this is not a theory. I actually tried and played from the tips last week. I'm a 6.8 index and shot 85 twice. 50% GIR and 8/14 fairways. My 'bad holes' had nothing to do with my drives. Hit into the hazard 2 of the par 3's resulting in doubles, from the fairway one hole went bunker to bunker for double. Fried egg in the bunker couldn't get out for double. Chunked a wedge in the water. Double. Couple bogeys in there from not being able to get up and down... 85

 

GPS tracked my driver shots at 322, 312, 267 (hook miss) 298, 270 (high block), 308, 285, 302...

 

Short game is definitely lagging for all of us which is what I mentioned.

[BrandonDunes]

> @jkim27 said:

>

> Haha I swear he hits it straight down the fairway, will chunk two wedges, get on the green then 3 putt and make double. He'll do that at least 4-5 times a round.

 

I think you should move up a set of tees then so he can practice more wedges

 

 

[davep043]

> @jkim27 said:

 

> Just for the record we do keep stats, and at least for me this is not a theory. I actually tried and played from the tips last week. I'm a 6.8 index and shot 85 twice. 50% GIR and 8/14 fairways. My 'bad holes' had nothing to do with my drives. Hit into the hazard 2 of the par 3's resulting in doubles, from the fairway one hole went bunker to bunker for double. Fried egg in the bunker couldn't get out for double. Chunked a wedge in the water. Double. Couple bogeys in there from not being able to get up and down... 85

>

> GPS tracked my driver shots at 322, 312, 267 (hook miss) 298, 270 (high block), 308, 285, 302...

>

> Short game is definitely lagging for all of us which is what I mentioned.

 

So you're a 6.8 index, what's your average score from the regular tees? Guessing a CR of 71 or so, you should average just over 80, maybe 81, even 82. You shot 85 from the back tees, so your scores DID increase. And you say you'll hit as many greens from 180 as you will from 90. You mean you'd only hit 50% from 90 yards? You better play forward so you can practice those 90-yarders a lot more.

Again, if you're not holding anyone up, nobody should really care, play whichever tees you choose. But you might progress to becoming better golfers if you force yourself to play the shots you need to work on. Its more fun to hit the shots you hit well, its more productive to work on weaknesses.