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Long hitters playing from the tips regardless of handicap


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> @jkim27 said:

> > @Z1ggy16 said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > > Moving back isn't going to help your short game, it will pressure it more certainly as your going to have more awkward misses because your dispersiot will be wider due to the longer clubs.

> > > >

> > > > Now you are right in that it will lower your index assuming you shoot the same scores due to rating changes.

> > >

> > > The OP claims that they'll hit just as many greens from 180 yards as they will from half that distance. The way I read the OP, @jkim27 is also guessing that their scores won't change when they move back a set of tees. My guess is that he's wrong, they'll miss way more greens, and the scores WILL go up. I have no way of knowing how much, but I'd bet he'd be surprised.

> >

> > It sounds like somebody who doesn't actually keep stats and just anecdotally takes data from their brain. I feel like in golf and in sports in general, we tend to never think in averages, only in extremes. I find it hard to believe somebody is hitting the same % GIR from 180 as 90, especially if they hit it 280+ and straight. If I had 90 yards to every single pin as my second shot, I'd probably be a 3 or 4 HC, but instead I'm a 12 because I have to hit mid and sometimes long irons at greens.

> >

> > Usually what I've seen is you play the tee box according to handicap, and not driver distance. If you can bomb it 280 and straight but you still shoot 95, then you need to be giving yourself a lot more short irons and wedges into greens, because the short game must be lagging. That or.... you hit 1 drive 280 and straight and the rest were 280 and in the next fairway/trees but you remember that one time you smoked one.

>

> Just for the record we do keep stats, and at least for me this is not a theory. I actually tried and played from the tips last week. I'm a 6.8 index and shot 85 twice. 50% GIR and 8/14 fairways. My 'bad holes' had nothing to do with my drives. Hit into the hazard 2 of the par 3's resulting in doubles, from the fairway one hole went bunker to bunker for double. Fried egg in the bunker couldn't get out for double. Chunked a wedge in the water. Double. Couple bogeys in there from not being able to get up and down... 85

>

> GPS tracked my driver shots at 322, 312, 267 (hook miss) 298, 270 (high block), 308, 285, 302...

>

> Short game is definitely lagging for all of us which is what I mentioned.

 

So then I'd recommend not playing the back tees so you can practice wedge play. But at the end of the day, if you're having fun and moving along at pace, it doesn't make much difference. 85 from the tips is usually a good score for like 95% of rec. golfers.

 

I also improved my shots inside 100 yards a lot by using the whole "one swing, different club" approach. Maybe doesn't look cool and zip back 500 feet after, but I rarely miss greens now if I can get my drive to within 90-100 yards. Take out a PW and feel waist high back to waist high through. Nice low flight that the wind doesn't touch too much. And if I do miss the green, I'm right around the edges and give myself and up and down chance. 0% fat shots since I stopped trying to power a LW up there. And thin shots will usually just trickle off the green instead of going 130 yards because you only swung about 50-60% effort.

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A 20 capper with a straight 280 yard drive, and a decent short game is called a sandbagger. ;)

> @"North Butte" said: > Choice of tees is the same as any other golf behavior. If you're not damaging the course or adversely affecting other golfers then do whatever you find to be the most f

How a 20 can hit it 280 & **_straight_** and not be a much better golfer makes no sense whatsoever. If you can hit it that far & straight, no reason you should be having issues hitting Irons/

> @davep043 said:

> > @jkim27 said:

>

> > Just for the record we do keep stats, and at least for me this is not a theory. I actually tried and played from the tips last week. I'm a 6.8 index and shot 85 twice. 50% GIR and 8/14 fairways. My 'bad holes' had nothing to do with my drives. Hit into the hazard 2 of the par 3's resulting in doubles, from the fairway one hole went bunker to bunker for double. Fried egg in the bunker couldn't get out for double. Chunked a wedge in the water. Double. Couple bogeys in there from not being able to get up and down... 85

> >

> > GPS tracked my driver shots at 322, 312, 267 (hook miss) 298, 270 (high block), 308, 285, 302...

> >

> > Short game is definitely lagging for all of us which is what I mentioned.

>

> So you're a 6.8 index, what's your average score from the regular tees? Guessing a CR of 71 or so, you should average just over 80, maybe 81, even 82. You shot 85 from the back tees, so your scores DID increase. And you say you'll hit as many greens from 180 as you will from 90. You mean you'd only hit 50% from 90 yards? You better play forward so you can practice those 90-yarders a lot more.

> Again, if you're not holding anyone up, nobody should really care, play whichever tees you choose. But you might progress to becoming better golfers if you force yourself to play the shots you need to work on. Its more fun to hit the shots you hit well, its more productive to work on weaknesses.

 

I usually shoot between 80-85 from the whites. I break 80 occasionally when my short game is on and I'm getting up and down and lot. I know I need to practice wedges more but I've been around a 6-8index for years now and the wedges just aren't improving. Not enough time to practice and I think I just have dead hands or something :/ so my thought was playing from the tips would at least mix things up a bit.

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> @llewol007 said:

> Why???? Long hitters if they are just too long cant they take out a 3 wood or even a driving iron. I hit it long as well but I do not feel the need to take out my driver unless the risk reward factor line up. There probably is a reason why they are higher handicappers. The description does not add up for me. You said they are long and straight but yet are hanging in the 6-20 handicap? Playing the tips just means you have to hit it longer.

 

If you hit 280 & straight, why wouldn't you hit a driver every hole? Please don't answer as if you are a PGA tour pro and want to hit to a perfect wedge distance so you can spin the ball like Phil Mickelson. You hit it as long and as close to the green as possible.

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> @Under2hours said:

> > @llewol007 said:

> > Why???? Long hitters if they are just too long cant they take out a 3 wood or even a driving iron. I hit it long as well but I do not feel the need to take out my driver unless the risk reward factor line up. There probably is a reason why they are higher handicappers. The description does not add up for me. You said they are long and straight but yet are hanging in the 6-20 handicap? Playing the tips just means you have to hit it longer.

>

> If you hit 280 & straight, why wouldn't you hit a driver every hole? Please don't answer as if you are a PGA tour pro and want to hit to a perfect wedge distance so you can spin the ball like Phil Mickelson. You hit it as long and as close to the green as possible.

 

The statistics suggest that even those pros should do exactly the same most of the time. Almost everyone will end up closer to the pin from 50 yards than they will from 100. Of course, that's a completely different thread.

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> @Under2hours said:

> > @llewol007 said:

> > Why???? Long hitters if they are just too long cant they take out a 3 wood or even a driving iron. I hit it long as well but I do not feel the need to take out my driver unless the risk reward factor line up. There probably is a reason why they are higher handicappers. The description does not add up for me. You said they are long and straight but yet are hanging in the 6-20 handicap? Playing the tips just means you have to hit it longer.

>

> If you hit 280 & straight, why wouldn't you hit a driver every hole? Please don't answer as if you are a PGA tour pro and want to hit to a perfect wedge distance so you can spin the ball like Phil Mickelson. You hit it as long and as close to the green as possible.

 

Believe it or not there are some hazards in long drive land. Run out of fairway, bunkers, crossing streams, etc . If I had my druthers I'd always hit driver whenever possible. It's nice at times not having to hit driver if you've got the distance to spare.

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> @davep043 said:

> > @Under2hours said:

> > > @llewol007 said:

> > > Why???? Long hitters if they are just too long cant they take out a 3 wood or even a driving iron. I hit it long as well but I do not feel the need to take out my driver unless the risk reward factor line up. There probably is a reason why they are higher handicappers. The description does not add up for me. You said they are long and straight but yet are hanging in the 6-20 handicap? Playing the tips just means you have to hit it longer.

> >

> > If you hit 280 & straight, why wouldn't you hit a driver every hole? Please don't answer as if you are a PGA tour pro and want to hit to a perfect wedge distance so you can spin the ball like Phil Mickelson. You hit it as long and as close to the green as possible.

>

> The statistics suggest that even those pros should do exactly the same most of the time. Almost everyone will end up closer to the pin from 50 yards than they will from 100. Of course, that's a completely different thread.

 

I think this is different for the pros because they can work the ball and are much better from trouble than us ams. If I'm playing shorter tees I try to pick a club that takes the fairway bunkers out of play, and also if there are corners that need to be cut ill usually hit a long iron to not risk missing on the wrong side and being in the woods.

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> @cmagnusson said:

> > @jkim27 said:

>

> > Assuming pace of play is not an issue, should long/straight hitters play from the tips regardless of handicap??

> >

>

>

> > @Augster said:

> > Assuming pace is good (completely empty course for example) play whatever tees make you happy. Some people want to shoot 78, even if it’s from the golds with a 64.4 CR. Others have the most fun playing the WHOLE course and getting beat down. Shooting an 85 from the tips is way more fulfilling, for me, than shooting 78 from the golds.

>

> I'm gonna second Augster here. The only thing that matters (outside of PoP) is are you going to enjoy yourself. Is it more fun to shoot 80 from the Reds or 90 from the Blacks? Figure that out, then you do you.

>

> I'm a 14-15 handicap, my average drive is around 275-280. Do I have fun shooting 80-82 from the whites hitting 10 5-irons off the tee? Sometimes, usually, yeah. Do I sometimes prefer to shoot an 87-89 and hit driver a whole bunch? Absolutely. We play the blues once in a while just to switch things up, keep it fresh. When I play a new course I always play the tips the first time just to see the full challenge, then I'll go back and play the whites to see what happens if I actually try to go low.

 

This is where I am at as well. I think I'd rather shoot 83 from the tips than 79 from the blue/white tees. It's just more fun to play par 4s that are over 425 and take driver out than a bunch of sub 390 par 4s taking an iron off the tee. Sure we could still hit driver every hole but playing from bunkers/rough is tough

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I'm still trying to figure out how your group can be that great off the tee, with one of the hardest clubs to hit, yet be bad enough with a short iron in the hand to where you end up shooting in the 80's and beyond. You're averaging 295 off the tee with those numbers and 60 percent of the fairways hit. Those numbers put you in the middle of the pack on the PGA tour on any given week. I'm not sure how you can swing that well off the tee yet not any other sense of a game, but I guess that's not the point.

 

 

With that said, play where you want if you're enjoying yourself and not holding anybody up, you don't need any of our opinions on the matter if you're happy.

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> @MountainKing said:

> I'm still trying to figure out how your group can be that great off the tee, with one of the hardest clubs to hit, yet be bad enough with a short iron in the hand to where you end up shooting in the 80's and beyond. You're averaging 295 off the tee with those numbers and 60 percent of the fairways hit. Those numbers put you in the middle of the pack on the PGA tour on any given week. I'm not sure how you can swing that well off the tee yet not any other sense of a game, but I guess that's not the point.

>

>

> With that said, play where you want if you're enjoying yourself and not holding anybody up, you don't need any of our opinions on the matter if you're happy.

 

Sadly those players are common enough. Played with several of them.

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> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > I'm still trying to figure out how your group can be that great off the tee, with one of the hardest clubs to hit, yet be bad enough with a short iron in the hand to where you end up shooting in the 80's and beyond. You're averaging 295 off the tee with those numbers and 60 percent of the fairways hit. Those numbers put you in the middle of the pack on the PGA tour on any given week. I'm not sure how you can swing that well off the tee yet not any other sense of a game, but I guess that's not the point.

> >

> >

> > With that said, play where you want if you're enjoying yourself and not holding anybody up, you don't need any of our opinions on the matter if you're happy.

>

> Sadly those players are common enough. Played with several of them.

 

Very common, I'm one of them. My last 10 rounds I'm averaging 56% of fairways hit, but only 29% GIR.

 

Drivers are the most forgiving clubs in the bag, you're on a perfect and controlled lie, and almost always have a bigger target. I have no idea why people have a hard time grasping the concept that fairways are easier to hit than greens.

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> @cmagnusson said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > @MountainKing said:

> > > I'm still trying to figure out how your group can be that great off the tee, with one of the hardest clubs to hit, yet be bad enough with a short iron in the hand to where you end up shooting in the 80's and beyond. You're averaging 295 off the tee with those numbers and 60 percent of the fairways hit. Those numbers put you in the middle of the pack on the PGA tour on any given week. I'm not sure how you can swing that well off the tee yet not any other sense of a game, but I guess that's not the point.

> > >

> > >

> > > With that said, play where you want if you're enjoying yourself and not holding anybody up, you don't need any of our opinions on the matter if you're happy.

> >

> > Sadly those players are common enough. Played with several of them.

>

> Very common, I'm one of them. My last 10 rounds I'm averaging 56% of fairways hit, but only 29% GIR.

>

> Drivers are the most forgiving clubs in the bag, you're on a perfect and controlled lie, and almost always have a bigger target. I have no idea why people have a hard time grasping the concept that fairways are easier to hit than greens.

 

I find the driver very easy to hit and I am known for seldom missing the fairway. It's the 280 that eludes me. However if I hit it 280, I wouldn't still have a 3w or hybrid in my hand & the game would be much easier. I have a 5 par 4's (of 9 I have a hybrid or longer). Hit Hybrid or 3w on 3 of 5 par 3's, a 3w on one par 5 for my third and the other par 5's maybe a 5-8I third if I've hit two very good shots.

 

Hit it 280 then irons on all......

 

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> @cmagnusson said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > @MountainKing said:

> > > I'm still trying to figure out how your group can be that great off the tee, with one of the hardest clubs to hit, yet be bad enough with a short iron in the hand to where you end up shooting in the 80's and beyond. You're averaging 295 off the tee with those numbers and 60 percent of the fairways hit. Those numbers put you in the middle of the pack on the PGA tour on any given week. I'm not sure how you can swing that well off the tee yet not any other sense of a game, but I guess that's not the point.

> > >

> > >

> > > With that said, play where you want if you're enjoying yourself and not holding anybody up, you don't need any of our opinions on the matter if you're happy.

> >

> > Sadly those players are common enough. Played with several of them.

>

> Very common, I'm one of them. My last 10 rounds I'm averaging 56% of fairways hit, but only 29% GIR.

>

> Drivers are the most forgiving clubs in the bag, you're on a perfect and controlled lie, and almost always have a bigger target. I have no idea why people have a hard time grasping the concept that fairways are easier to hit than greens.

 

Driver most forgiving? That's a new one.

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> @MountainKing said:

> > @cmagnusson said:

> > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > > @MountainKing said:

> > > > I'm still trying to figure out how your group can be that great off the tee, with one of the hardest clubs to hit, yet be bad enough with a short iron in the hand to where you end up shooting in the 80's and beyond. You're averaging 295 off the tee with those numbers and 60 percent of the fairways hit. Those numbers put you in the middle of the pack on the PGA tour on any given week. I'm not sure how you can swing that well off the tee yet not any other sense of a game, but I guess that's not the point.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > With that said, play where you want if you're enjoying yourself and not holding anybody up, you don't need any of our opinions on the matter if you're happy.

> > >

> > > Sadly those players are common enough. Played with several of them.

> >

> > Very common, I'm one of them. My last 10 rounds I'm averaging 56% of fairways hit, but only 29% GIR.

> >

> > Drivers are the most forgiving clubs in the bag, you're on a perfect and controlled lie, and almost always have a bigger target. I have no idea why people have a hard time grasping the concept that fairways are easier to hit than greens.

>

> Driver most forgiving? That's a new one.

 

Can you name another club where OEMs are racing and fighting to manufacture faces that allow you to still hit the short stuff when you only catch half a ball off the high toe? Pretty sure there aren't any twist-face irons yet, even the weirdest looking half-hybrid SGI iron isn't going anywhere you want it to if you're a millimeter away from shanking it. The new driver tech is giving you a sweet spot that's bigger than the entire face of any other club in the bag.

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If you can hit it 280 yards straight the you are now playing a pitch and putt as you don’t need to worry about your tee game at all. You would be left with 18 holes that average 135yard long. If you are 20 over, then I would not move book and just keep working on you short iron, wedges and short game until you can challenge the course more.

 

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> @cmagnusson said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > > @cmagnusson said:

> > > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > > > @MountainKing said:

> > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how your group can be that great off the tee, with one of the hardest clubs to hit, yet be bad enough with a short iron in the hand to where you end up shooting in the 80's and beyond. You're averaging 295 off the tee with those numbers and 60 percent of the fairways hit. Those numbers put you in the middle of the pack on the PGA tour on any given week. I'm not sure how you can swing that well off the tee yet not any other sense of a game, but I guess that's not the point.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > With that said, play where you want if you're enjoying yourself and not holding anybody up, you don't need any of our opinions on the matter if you're happy.

> > > >

> > > > Sadly those players are common enough. Played with several of them.

> > >

> > > Very common, I'm one of them. My last 10 rounds I'm averaging 56% of fairways hit, but only 29% GIR.

> > >

> > > Drivers are the most forgiving clubs in the bag, you're on a perfect and controlled lie, and almost always have a bigger target. I have no idea why people have a hard time grasping the concept that fairways are easier to hit than greens.

> >

> > Driver most forgiving? That's a new one.

>

> Can you name another club where OEMs are racing and fighting to manufacture faces that allow you to still hit the short stuff when you only catch half a ball off the high toe? Pretty sure there aren't any twist-face irons yet, even the weirdest looking half-hybrid SGI iron isn't going anywhere you want it to if you're a millimeter away from shanking it. The new driver tech is giving you a sweet spot that's bigger than the entire face of any other club in the bag.

 

Modern drivers are forgiving as hell as long as you can square it up, the lack of loft gives you less margin for error. Look at the best players in the world, if they are on a hole where they absolutely need to find a fairway, you'll rarely see a driver, but you will see a lot of irons, hybrids and fairway woods. Impact is just part of the picture, the driver will put more side spin on the ball if you don't square it up than any other club in the bag.

 

I'd be willing to bet if you hit 100 tee shots with your driver and 100 with your PW, you'd find more fairways with the PW by a long shot.

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> @SNIPERBBB said:

> Fairways here are only 20 yards wide at best so that argument don't hold much water here...

 

Where you playing with fairways that narrow? That's crazy. I'd probably be a lot better driver of the ball if I played courses with fairways that narrow, most of what they're building around here now you can land a 747 on.

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> @MountainKing said:

> ****I'm still trying to figure out how your group can be that great off the tee, with one of the hardest clubs to hit, yet be bad enough with a short iron in the hand to where you end up shooting in the 80's and beyond. You're averaging 295 off the tee with those numbers and 60 percent of the fairways hit. Those numbers put you in the middle of the pack on the PGA tour on any given week. I'm not sure how you can swing that well off the tee yet not any other sense of a game, but I guess that's not the point.****

>

>

> With that said, play where you want if you're enjoying yourself and not holding anybody up, you don't need any of our opinions on the matter if you're happy.

It's pretty simple actually. I suspect they play a fairly open muni/public track with wide fairways and light rough. Seen lot's of long hitting high cappers play driver in the fairway/light rough majority of the time. However, put them on a tight course with heavy rough like Bethpage Black and it's all over with. I've played courses from 7800 yds to 5000 yds, and it's not just the distance that can humble you.

 

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> @MountainKing said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > Fairways here are only 20 yards wide at best so that argument don't hold much water here...

>

> Where you playing with fairways that narrow? That's crazy. I'd probably be a lot better driver of the ball if I played courses with fairways that narrow, most of what they're building around here now you can land a 747 on.

 

Lookup Cliffside golf course Gallipolis Ohio on Google Earth and use the tape measure tool. Especially check out the hole directly north of the clubhouse.

 

When I go play other courses, I have a hard time missing a fairway unless I dead block one or snap hook.

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> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > Fairways here are only 20 yards wide at best so that argument don't hold much water here...

> >

> > Where you playing with fairways that narrow? That's crazy. I'd probably be a lot better driver of the ball if I played courses with fairways that narrow, most of what they're building around here now you can land a 747 on.

>

> Lookup Cliffside golf course Gallipolis Ohio on Google Earth and use the tape measure tool. Especially check out the hole directly north of the clubhouse.

>

> When I go play other courses, I have a hard time missing a fairway unless I dead block one or snap hook.

 

Good lord, some of those holes aren't even 20 yards, even more impressive is there looks to be more than a few holes that are long enough you have to hit a driver on.

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> @MountainKing said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > @MountainKing said:

> > > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > > Fairways here are only 20 yards wide at best so that argument don't hold much water here...

> > >

> > > Where you playing with fairways that narrow? That's crazy. I'd probably be a lot better driver of the ball if I played courses with fairways that narrow, most of what they're building around here now you can land a 747 on.

> >

> > Lookup Cliffside golf course Gallipolis Ohio on Google Earth and use the tape measure tool. Especially check out the hole directly north of the clubhouse.

> >

> > When I go play other courses, I have a hard time missing a fairway unless I dead block one or snap hook.

>

> Good lord, some of those holes aren't even 20 yards, even more impressive is there looks to be more than a few holes that are long enough you have to hit a driver on.

 

Yeah...I can hit 3w on most holes and still have a wedge in hand on my second shots for the par 4

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> @gripandrip said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > How does somebody who hits 280, fairly straight, play to a 20 handicap? That isn't adding up.

>

> I play with one of those guys. 280 yards. That's a long way to go into the trees. Now someone who hits it 280 and can always find it is another story.

>

> :)

 

It's true I swear. As a numbers example he'll pipe 8 drives down the fairway per round, but on 4 of those holes will end up making double due to chunking wedges and 3-putting (+8), or getting stuck in bunkers etc. The other 4 approaches will be close but off the green, chip on and 2-putt for bogey (+4). Then there will be at least 2 holes where he pulls out driver, smokes it deep into the trees and makes triple (+6). Add in at least 2 holes where he hits the green and 3-putts (+2). The rest he'll scramble a few pars together and viola, you're at +20.

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> @jkim27 said:

> Alright so I've only seen one other thread on playing from the tips, and a lot of people just comment about pace of play in that thread.

>

> Assuming pace of play is not an issue, should long/straight hitters play from the tips regardless of handicap??

 

Anybody regardless of skill should play from whatever tee they choose as long as they keep pace.

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> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > Driver most forgiving? That's a new one.

>

> Not at all. I hit driver on short holes because I hit it straighter than my three-wood.

 

I either hit my driver straight, maybe occasionally a slight draw or my mishits are a block-push.

 

But those clubs right below the driver, the fairway wood and hybrids, are the only clubs in the bag where my miss is a hard draw bordering on a hook. Sometimes even a pull-hook pops up with the hybrids.

 

If there's room to hit my driver distance-wise, it would be a silly "strategy" to try and lay back with a shorter shot while bringing the big hook miss into play. The 460cc driver just wants to go something close to straight. I'd have to lay up with a 6-iron to find a club I hit straighter than driver and frankly I wouldn't want to play a course so short and narrow I'm hitting 6-irons off Par 4 tees!

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> @Under2hours said:

> How a 20 can hit it 280 & **_straight_** and not be a much better golfer makes no sense whatsoever. If you can hit it that far & straight, no reason you should be having issues hitting Irons/wedges.

>

> We play the tips on Saturday & my score is always higher & I struggle. Very simply I am a short hitter. Where anything over 400 means two really good shots to hit the green, @ 440 it is 3 shots for sure. Two of our five par 3's I can't hit the green & a few holes reaching the fairway may not happen. The good news is no forced carries or hazards come into play.

 

> @MountainKing said:

> How does somebody who hits 280, fairly straight, play to a 20 handicap? That isn't adding up.

 

> @MountainKing said:

> I'm still trying to figure out how your group can be that great off the tee, with one of the hardest clubs to hit, yet be bad enough with a short iron in the hand to where you end up shooting in the 80's and beyond. You're averaging 295 off the tee with those numbers and 60 percent of the fairways hit. Those numbers put you in the middle of the pack on the PGA tour on any given week. I'm not sure how you can swing that well off the tee yet not any other sense of a game, but I guess that's not the point.

>

>

> With that said, play where you want if you're enjoying yourself and not holding anybody up, you don't need any of our opinions on the matter if you're happy.

 

Honestly, to me, it doesn't seem that far-fetched. My brother in law, for example, is an 18 and can easily pipe his driver out there around 265/270....or even longer if he really nuts it....and it's usually in the fairway or just off. From there, he'll normally make a decent approach to the green, but it's pretty regular for him to hit a few chunks or to blade some balls over the green......following it up with a lousy short game effort and he is suddenly looking at a triple. The last time we played, his front 9 literally looked something like: par, triple, double, par, bogie, triple, par, par, bogie....with something similar on the back.

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I've played with quite a few guys over the years who hit it miles with a driver but have only a rudimentary wedge and short game. Some of them are 20 hcp or even higher (or would be if they had handicaps). But none of them had been what I'd call "straight" with those 280 yard drives. Far from it.

 

But as someone pointed out upthread, there are courses out there (like the one I learned to play on) where you can often hit a tee shot 60-70 yards offline and still find and play the ball.

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