Help closing the club face

[cjweaver13]

Like many, I am a slicer or fader on a good day. With my irons I can sometimes get a draw shot. After using toptracer at my local range, I found out I can get an in out to out swing path fairly consistently, but have a hard time closing the club face. I have trained myself to use an incredibly strong grip and really using fingers making sure not to palm it. Focusing on keeping the lead wrist bowed a little and logo closed to target helps some. Recently I watched a Clay Ballard video on increasing power by lifting front heel and slamming down before downswing which helps, because it closes my hips and shoulders a little more as well. What are other ways/ methods/ drills I can do to really help shut down the club face, especially on driver and hybrids. The other part of the equation I fight is hitting off the heel. When I am able to get a nice in>out it helps, but even then I come over the top just a little and have a heel bias.

[TheInfidel]

Really tough to give advice without seeing your action but have you checked your setup with regards to ball position relative to where you bottom out, and also your AoA (angle of attack)? These are things I try and keep track of. But beware of moving the ball back in the stance with an over the top move because it's only Hozel Rocket City from there.

 

Personally ** I do a lot of what you do** , and I work really hard on hitting a draw which only ever goes straight to a soft fade. Bad habits include letting the hands drop low at address and not maintaining posture in the strike zone, the symptoms of this include starting down over the top, right heel comes up early, standing up out of the shot which leads to heel strikes, open club face and poor strikes.

 

I work on hitting three quarter shots where I maintain a tall straight back posture, my right heel stays down as long as possible, the strike is centred, and the ball turns right to left. If you can do this at 75% it can help with full swing. If you can't get this strike and shot shape at half or three quarter shots it needs more work. Once you've got this nailed try doing it with a pool noodle or headcover 1' above the ball, this will continue to develop the in to out club path while closing the face. You'll have a desire to close it with your hands but the real benefit is in feeling that the big muscles in your arms close it for you as you turn your grip logo and belt buckle to target.

[aggiegolfer21]

You need to match the leading edge of the club to your spine angle when the club is parallel to the ground in your downswing. From here, maintain the relationship of the club face to your arms and trunk through the strike. Don't worry so much about what your body is doing and focus more on the club.

[chigolfer1]

> @cjweaver13 said:

> Like many, I am a slicer or fader on a good day. With my irons I can sometimes get a draw shot. After using toptracer at my local range, I found out I can get an in out to out swing path fairly consistently, but have a hard time closing the club face. I have trained myself to use an incredibly strong grip and really using fingers making sure not to palm it. Focusing on keeping the lead wrist bowed a little and logo closed to target helps some. Recently I watched a Clay Ballard video on increasing power by lifting front heel and slamming down before downswing which helps, because it closes my hips and shoulders a little more as well. What are other ways/ methods/ drills I can do to really help shut down the club face, especially on driver and hybrids. The other part of the equation I fight is hitting off the heel. When I am able to get a nice in>out it helps, but even then I come over the top just a little and have a heel bias.

 

I think you're looking in the wrong areas. What are your wrist conditions? You briefly mention but, without knowing more, that would probably be the best place to first examine.

[malarijm]

I tend to handle drag with an in to out swing and it results in a wide open club face and a straight push or a push slice. If you are not rotating through the shot with your strong grip (exiting right if you're a righty) then you are going to hit a big block unless you time a flip at impact to get the club closed to the path i.e., the occasional draw.

 

A drill I love to do is to try to hit the ball along the ground in a straight line maybe 50-100 yards, then move on to full swings. I don't mean top or skull the ball intentionally to keep it on the ground, but hit it as low as possible. If you are scooper or deliver too much loft (a sympton of an open clubface) doing this removes any intention of helping or lifting the ball in the air and all you are doing is trying to start the ball in a direction. The loft on the club will put the ball in the air.

[BrianMcG]

Wrong thread.

[chigolfer1]

> @malarijm said:

> I tend to handle drag with an in to out swing and it results in a wide open club face and a straight push or a push slice. If you are not rotating through the shot with your strong grip (exiting right if you're a righty) then you are going to hit a big block unless you time a flip at impact to get the club closed to the path i.e., the occasional draw.

>

> A drill I love to do is to try to hit the ball along the ground in a straight line maybe 50-100 yards, then move on to full swings. I don't mean top or skull the ball intentionally to keep it on the ground, but hit it as low as possible. If you are scooper or deliver too much loft (a sympton of an open clubface) doing this removes any intention of helping or lifting the ball in the air and all you are doing is trying to start the ball in a direction. The loft on the club will put the ball in the air.

 

If his face is open at around club parallel, the last thing he'd want to be doing is thinking about rotating through the shot.

[cjweaver13]

> @chigolfer1 said:

> > @cjweaver13 said:

> > Like many, I am a slicer or fader on a good day. With my irons I can sometimes get a draw shot. After using toptracer at my local range, I found out I can get an in out to out swing path fairly consistently, but have a hard time closing the club face. I have trained myself to use an incredibly strong grip and really using fingers making sure not to palm it. Focusing on keeping the lead wrist bowed a little and logo closed to target helps some. Recently I watched a Clay Ballard video on increasing power by lifting front heel and slamming down before downswing which helps, because it closes my hips and shoulders a little more as well. What are other ways/ methods/ drills I can do to really help shut down the club face, especially on driver and hybrids. The other part of the equation I fight is hitting off the heel. When I am able to get a nice in>out it helps, but even then I come over the top just a little and have a heel bias.

>

> I think you're looking in the wrong areas. What are your wrist conditions? You briefly mention but, without knowing more, that would probably be the best place to first examine.

 

My wrists are somewhere between straight and cupped a little, though I try to maintain a bowing through impact. This is realistically not always the case though.

[cjweaver13]

> @BrianMcG said:

> Wrong thread.

 

What is correct thread then. Please give further advice so I can avoid these mistakes rather than just say "wrong thread"

[chigolfer1]

> @cjweaver13 said:

> > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > @cjweaver13 said:

> > > Like many, I am a slicer or fader on a good day. With my irons I can sometimes get a draw shot. After using toptracer at my local range, I found out I can get an in out to out swing path fairly consistently, but have a hard time closing the club face. I have trained myself to use an incredibly strong grip and really using fingers making sure not to palm it. Focusing on keeping the lead wrist bowed a little and logo closed to target helps some. Recently I watched a Clay Ballard video on increasing power by lifting front heel and slamming down before downswing which helps, because it closes my hips and shoulders a little more as well. What are other ways/ methods/ drills I can do to really help shut down the club face, especially on driver and hybrids. The other part of the equation I fight is hitting off the heel. When I am able to get a nice in>out it helps, but even then I come over the top just a little and have a heel bias.

> >

> > I think you're looking in the wrong areas. What are your wrist conditions? You briefly mention but, without knowing more, that would probably be the best place to first examine.

>

> My wrists are somewhere between straight and cupped a little, though I try to maintain a bowing through impact. This is realistically not always the case though.

 

It would probably help a lot if you had less cup at top and definitely after. Trying to bow right at impact is not going to happen usually.

[Justsomeguy]

I could have written this post OP. Still working on it myself. My coach tells me to make the swing feel very right handed once I start the DS, just go for it basically. Sometimes it works often it doesn't. But where I'm at right now compared to where I've been, I'll take a small fade.

If you figure it out lmk. I think my error has to be partly in my grip and letting the clubface open at various points.

[SNIPERBBB]

Speeding up the arms really helped me. I've gotten to the point where Ive over done it now and gotta start dialing it back a bit. Used to be, if you looked at my swing, my body would look like its at post impact position but my arms and club are still parrallel to the ground. Kinda hard to square the face up from there. Done a lot of work to sync my arms up with everything else and I've dropped 3 strokes off my cap from the start of the year(6-3)

[cjweaver13]

Thanks all for the help. I have a lot to try next I go play. Even sitting at my desk manipulating my wrist and arms a little I can see how these differences will affect angle of attack and club face

[MonteScheinblum]

1. You’re not supposed to bow through impact.

2. That’s way too late even if you were supposed to do that.

 

The bow has to be in transition.

[cjweaver13]

> @MonteScheinblum said:

> 1. You’re not supposed to bow through impact.

> 2. That’s way too late even if you were supposed to do that.

>

> The bow has to be in transition.

 

So then does closing/squaring up the face come from the rotary motion of the arms in the radius area and also the body rotation through hips and shoulders?

[chigolfer1]

> @cjweaver13 said:

> > @MonteScheinblum said:

> > 1. You’re not supposed to bow through impact.

> > 2. That’s way too late even if you were supposed to do that.

> >

> > The bow has to be in transition.

>

> So then does closing/squaring up the face come from the rotary motion of the arms in the radius area and also the body rotation through hips and shoulders?

 

All he's saying is you have to bow much earlier than at impact. Body rotation actually opens the face. That's why DJ gets so open with his extreme bowed left wrist. .

[wkuo3]

> @cjweaver13 said:

> Like many, I am a slicer or fader on a good day. With my irons I can sometimes get a draw shot. After using toptracer at my local range, I found out I can get an in out to out swing path fairly consistently, but have a hard time closing the club face. I have trained myself to use an incredibly strong grip and really using fingers making sure not to palm it. Focusing on keeping the lead wrist bowed a little and logo closed to target helps some. Recently I watched a Clay Ballard video on increasing power by lifting front heel and slamming down before downswing which helps, because it closes my hips and shoulders a little more as well. What are other ways/ methods/ drills I can do to really help shut down the club face, especially on driver and hybrids. The other part of the equation I fight is hitting off the heel. When I am able to get a nice in>out it helps, but even then I come over the top just a little and have a heel bias.

 

You had self diagnose your issue on the golf grip.

If you could go back and start with the more neutral hanbd position, your ssue could be corrected.

If you're not a junior or someone needing a little help in aquaring up the club face at impact, you do not need a overly strong golr grip. It's a myth that a strong golf grip could cure the slice. Just like the myth of a close club face will do the same.

So when a chronnic slicer apply a strong grip and a shut club face, often times it won't cure the issue of being a slicer. Some cases it'll send the golfer into a spiral of causing a bunch of other problems which the golfer did not have before.

You want to return the club face to square at impact, right ?

If you have a few moments, walk yourself backward from the impact position. Start from the "freezed" impact position. How do you know if the club face is square ? Use the corner of the wall. Lay the iron face flat to one edge of the corner, put you hands on the grip and take an address positon. You'll be face one side of the wall and the club face in the corner should be perpendicular to your body alignment. Excert some pressure to bend the shaft slightly, feel how your hands on the grips react. Find a position of your nahds which you could push the golf club to the wall without hands feeling funny. You'll find a position in which you can push more with force . That's how your hands should be on the grip.

Often times, this grip will be coincide with the golf grips many had been teaching from day one. Too strong a golf grip will cause all sorts of issue.

The change of a golf grip will always fell "unnatual " to you away from the old grip you're used to, but keep at it, and you will see the results.

[BiggErn]

It shouldn’t be a conscious effort to close the face. If you have a sound grip and swing it just happens.

[fjk]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> Speeding up the arms really helped me. I've gotten to the point where Ive over done it now and gotta start dialing it back a bit. Used to be, if you looked at my swing, my body would look like its at post impact position but my arms and club are still parrallel to the ground. Kinda hard to square the face up from there. Done a lot of work to sync my arms up with everything else and I've dropped 3 strokes off my cap from the start of the year(6-3)

 

I think this is a huge reason for a lot of amateurs. We over-power the swing with the body and the arms are too passive and left behind/pinned. Open face then causes us to try to open up more, but with the arms trailing that much you hit across it with path going left and hit a lot of wipes/slices/fades.

 

I would look into speeding up your arms and arms coming off the chest or right arm straightening sooner. Your body will react to the right arm straightening sooner by turning appropriately to support that, so don't worry about being "armsy."

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

> @BiggErn said:

> It shouldn’t be a conscious effort to close the face. If you have a sound grip and swing it just happens.

 

All evidence to the contrary

 

[dap]

I think players with open face issues need some conscious bowing of the lead wrist. This needs to happen as soon as you start the downswing. This prevents the lead wrist flipping too much at impact and leaving the face open. I don't think it's that difficult a move because it's not a timing move you need to make precisely at impact.

 

If you come over the top it's difficult to make this move because you are likely to pull the ball dead left and your instincts will fight bowing the lead wrist. You need to learn how to shallow the club along with the bowing move.

 

In my opinion the reason a lot of players find it hard to shallow the club is because they don't bow the lead wrist. You can't shallow the club and leave the face open because you will huge blocks or block slices.

[Lefthook]

> @fjk said:

>

> I think this is a huge reason for a lot of amateurs. We over-power the swing with the body and the arms are too passive and left behind/pinned. Open face then causes us to try to open up more, but with the arms trailing that much you hit across it with path going left and hit a lot of wipes/slices/fades.

>

> I would look into speeding up your arms and arms coming off the chest or right arm straightening sooner. Your body will react to the right arm straightening sooner by turning appropriately to support that, so don't worry about being "armsy."

>

>

IMO too active arms in the back swing is one of the most common problems. High handicappers frequently have insufficient shoulder turn and insufficient forearm rotation from hip to hip. And tthey have too much independent arms swing. This leads to a disconnect between hands and shoulder and also between clubhead and shoulders. So when the pivot works in the down swing, the hands and clubhead do not respond as they do for a good golfer where everything is properly set for the shoulders to power the hands and clubhead.

 

Pros turn & rotate while high handicap slicers lift. The latter have no idea of how much and how early the pros hinge the club open in the back swing and how little they move their arms - especially from hip to hip.

 

[fjk]

> @Lefthook said:

> > @fjk said:

> >

> > I think this is a huge reason for a lot of amateurs. We over-power the swing with the body and the arms are too passive and left behind/pinned. Open face then causes us to try to open up more, but with the arms trailing that much you hit across it with path going left and hit a lot of wipes/slices/fades.

> >

> > I would look into speeding up your arms and arms coming off the chest or right arm straightening sooner. Your body will react to the right arm straightening sooner by turning appropriately to support that, so don't worry about being "armsy."

> >

> >

> IMO too active arms in the back swing is one of the most common problems. High handicappers frequently have insufficient shoulder turn and insufficient forearm rotation from hip to hip. And tthey have too much independent arms swing. This leads to a disconnect between hands and shoulder and also between clubhead and shoulders. So when the pivot works in the down swing, the hands and clubhead do not respond as they do for a good golfer where everything is properly set for the shoulders to power the hands and clubhead.

>

> Pros turn & rotate while high handicap slicers lift. The latter have no idea of how much and how early the pros hinge the club open in the back swing and how little they move their arms - especially from hip to hip.

>

 

A lot of people reading forums and breaking down their own swing fall into the middle between pros/low handicappers and high handicappers.

 

Mid handicappers. I do not think most of this group under-rotates the body. Probably over does it.

 

I don't think you can or should actively control what happens from hip to hip. In any case, if the arms appear to be moving very little from hip to hip in a pros downswing, then there is a lot of force being generated by the arms to keep them from getting left behind by the body and to keep them appearing in sync.

[LyinEye]

> @BiggErn said:

> It shouldn’t be a conscious effort to close the face. If you have a sound grip and swing it just happens.

Solid confirmation. Less is more...

 

[Lefthook]

> @fjk said:

> Mid handicappers. I do not think most of this group under-rotates the body. Probably over does it.

>

> I don't think you can or should actively control what happens from hip to hip. In any case, if the arms appear to be moving very little from hip to hip in a pros downswing, then there is a lot of force being generated by the arms to keep them from getting left behind by the body and to keep them appearing in sync.

You are either very unprecise with your wording or not understanding this very well.

 

"Overrotation" isn't too much rotation, but rather rotating the wrong way: Swaying and lifting instead of turning hips and shoulders and turning the club back and up with the hands.

 

What does active control mean in this context? Manipulating the club with hands and arms? Is there such a thing as "passive control"? If there's control it has to be active, but not by hands and arms.

 

Backswing: You can swing it back or "take" it back. If you take it back you will use hands and arms to control it. You can set the club early or you can set it late. Many ways to get it done. But if you lift your arms you're heading for trouble.

 

Downswing: Active control using the big muscles and joints. The majority of foce is generated by the pivot and delivered through the two shoulder joints. Only a small portion of the forces are generated by the arms, it is basically about straightening the trail elbow. While it is a good habit to do this with some force, it is not strictly necessary for a solid shot.

 

The good thing about the "start with the hands" tip is that it emphasises that the hands need to come down sooner than later. If you're way out of form at the top, you may have to wait for the hands before you can turn hard. But the best swingers turn hard from transition. And of course the best way to move the arms is by turning the shoulders. That's why some teachers tell their students to leave the hands/arms/club behind at the top. The "start with arms" teachers do not teach fundamentally different swings from the "leave the ... behind" guys. It is just a matter of using different messages to get the same result ... which is to (mostly) move the hands with the shoulders.

[Zitlow]

> @"Ping's Duck" said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > It shouldn’t be a conscious effort to close the face. If you have a sound grip and swing it just happens.

> Solid confirmation. Less is more...

>

>

 

Trying to control the release would be like driving down the interstate with your parking brake on.