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> @JSPXXVII said: Rules and decisions can be vicious at times, but when does common sense and logic come into play? They don't, at least as far as what most people call "common sense" and "logic"

I laid a straight edge at the interior edges of the two white dots on either side of the red dot, and the red do was clearly ob.

OB stakes are sometimes somewhat randomly placed, especially surrounding corners. So if there was no fallen stake near the corner, your ball was OB.   I don't see how that "argument" makes "no sense

If the trees + stakes are the property line, considering the 2 stakes close together, other stakes are down or missing.

If those stakes were in place, you would be in bounds. Connecting the dots across the corner isn't cool.

Unfortunately we play on some poorly marked courses. This also why the tour draws a painted line.

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Thanx for your comments guys. We play this course a lot. The white stake run on left side of the fairway from tee to green. Its so obvious what it’s intended to do, and from where my ball was the first visible stake was on the back tree line. I was so furious about their argument, that I didnt even bother to look for another stake on the left corner.

 

Left corner also goes slight outward, and if that first visible back stake is also down and/or missing, the next stake would have cut through the green, making portion of the green OB.

 

Their argument made no sense to me at the time of our play. I still think that it was a D*ck move for them to walk over from the green just to declare my ball OB.

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OB stakes are sometimes somewhat randomly placed, especially surrounding corners. So if there was no fallen stake near the corner, your ball was OB.

 

I don't see how that "argument" makes "no sense" to you. It's a clear application of the rules. For the record, I'd have been frustrated that I hit a shot left on a hole where that's a no-no. I wouldn't be frustrated by the rules, or by the people with whom I was playing pointing them out. I doubt your frustation helped you, might you simply let it go?

 

 

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You need to take it up with the course. If the ball is on the wrong side of stakes you're tilting at windmills with your fellow players. Unless you find a another stake or line inside where you're ball is, in the words of Bill Handel, "You have no case, you have no case".

 

> @JSPXXVII said:

> Thanx for your comments guys. We play this course a lot. The white stake run on left side of the fairway from tee to Their argument made no sense to me at the time of our play. I still think that it was a D*ck move for them to walk over from the green just to declare my ball OB.

 

The dbag move here is when you're in a questionable location is not calling your FCs over to get their opinion. Just played our club championship and almost every hole someone was asking for judgement as the margins in some areas wasn't well defined.

 

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On you if there were other stakes "above" your ball along the tree line in that pic, but the pic, which only shows the ball where either you determined the pic should show it or where a GPS with +/- "x" margin for error may have placed it, shows the ball OB. How do you not look for or know there are or aren't other stakes if you disagree? If out, then out - doesn't seem like a big deal.

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Again, I really appreciate your input guys. Our group took little too long on this hole as one of our guys made 11 on this hole and there were a guys behind us waiting for us to clear the green. So, I wasnt going to walk about 50yds to look for another OB stake to line up my ball. This is a very large green and have a very large playing grounds behind the green. However, just for argument sake, hypothetically if the next visible marker was located where its marked on this picture, would a portion of the fringe and green be ruled out of bounds?yhx2b4n3jnjg.jpg

 

 

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> @JSPXXVII said:

> Again, I really appreciate your input guys. Our group took little too long on this hole as one of our guys made 11 on this hole and there were a guys behind us waiting for us to clear the green. So, I wasnt going to walk about 50yds to look for another OB stake to line up my ball. This is a very large green and have a very large playing grounds behind the green. However, just for argument sake, hypothetically if the next visible marker was located where its marked on this picture, would a portion of the fringe and green be ruled out of bounds?yhx2b4n3jnjg.jpg

>

>

Yes it would be OB.

 

The way you have things marked, it looks like a white stake would be missing. In that case play two balls and check with the committee.

 

I strongly suspect if you were in a multi player event the committee would come up with a favourable ruling for a ball OB on the green in Picture Number 2.

 

There was decision about this in the old rules:

 

Decision 33-2a/19 deals with this.

 

_Boundary Altered by Unauthorized Removal of Boundary Stake

 

In stroke play, a boundary line has been altered through unauthorized removal of a boundary stake and, therefore, there is an area (Area X) which is in bounds if the removed stake is disregarded and out of bounds if the removed stake is replaced.

 

 

 

Q1 A's ball comes to rest in Area X. A is aware that the boundary has been altered. He asks the Committee for a ruling. What is the ruling?

 

 

 

A1 The Committee should replace the removed stake, i.e., restore the original boundary line and require A to proceed under Rule 27-1, unless the Committee knows that one or more preceding competitors had, in ignorance of the fact that a stake has been removed, played from Area X. In that case, the Committee should allow the altered boundary line to stand for the remainder of the competition, and A would play his ball as it lay.

 

 

 

Q2 What would be the ruling if the Committee determined that one or more competitors had, in ignorance of the fact that a stake was missing, played from Area X and one or more other competitors had treated Area X as out of bounds and proceeded under Rule 27-1?

 

 

 

A2 If the inconsistent treatment of Area X could significantly affect the result of the competition, the round should be canceled and replayed. Otherwise, the round should stand._

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> @JSPXXVII said:

> .......However, just for argument sake, hypothetically if the next visible marker was located where its marked on this picture, would a portion of the fringe and green be ruled out of bounds?!

Yes, crazy as it seems, but sometimes things are crazy: I played a course a couple of weeks ago where the 3 tee-boxes furthest from the hole (the first hole) were roped off. We were told by the starter that there was a dispute between the course owner and their neighbor, who had claimed these 3 tee-boxes to be on their land, thus out of bounds, if you want to call it that. So things aren't always what they appear to be at first sight!

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> @JSPXXVII said:

> Again, I really appreciate your input guys. Our group took little too long on this hole as one of our guys made 11 on this hole and there were a guys behind us waiting for us to clear the green. So, I wasnt going to walk about 50yds to look for another OB stake to line up my ball. This is a very large green and have a very large playing grounds behind the green. However, just for argument sake, hypothetically if the next visible marker was located where its marked on this picture, would a portion of the fringe and green be ruled out of bounds?yhx2b4n3jnjg.jpg

>

>

Yes.

 

See above for solutions, but no doubt your logic was sound if you were arguing about the green being OB. Me - I'd have gone up and found the stake(s) or been sure they weren't there or lying down, heck with some guy making 11 who wants to declare me out of bounds, lol. Still think you should have taken the time as well, but (almost) nobody likes holding anyone up so I get your dilemma.

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I’ve seen plenty of corners deliberately cut off by ob stakes, once this year in a us open qualifier. Prior to play I pointed this out to the tournament director who confirmed it was intentional.

 

As to “common sense” , I bet you wouldn’t apply the “missing stake” logic when a staked ob line abruptly ends, leaving you ball in bounds, when one more stake in that straight line would put you ob.

 

The committee’s intention, not someone else’s logic, prevails.

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> @JSPXXVII said:

> This was during a match among friends at a course that we frequently play. This wasnt a tournament and no committee is involved.

 

Actually there seem to be two Committees involved. The Definition of Committee is helpful.

 

**Committee** - _The person or group in charge of the competition or the course._

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=definitions&subrulenum=11

Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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