Out of Bounds?

[Sawgrass]

> @bigred90gt said:

> > @JSPXXVII said:

>

> > Like I said, given the circumstances, all I wanted to hear were unbiased opinion from people that I personally dont know.

>

> My unbiased opinion is I would tell my buddies they can pound sand and the tree line is consistently OB for the entire length of the hole, and would have played on as normal. If any one in my regular group would have taken issue with it in anything other than a joking manner (we give each other tons of grief on a regular basis), I would have still told them to pound sand and recorded the score. If they persisted, I would tell them they can find another group to play in, or I will. I have no desire to play friendly games with someone acting a fool about something so insignificant.

>

> If it was in a tournament, I would have played 2 and sought advice from the committee after the round.

 

If it was a tournament, you feel the potential for confusion over the ruling was suffiient to play two balls. If it was just a "friendly" game, it was "so insignificant," yet significant enough to abandon your friends.

 

I marvel at peoples' unwillingness to simply do their best to play by the rules and move on without complaint and undeterred by the manufactured drama about how cruel the course layout might be.

[bigred90gt]

> @Sawgrass said:

 

> If it was a tournament, you feel the potential for confusion over the ruling was suffiient to play two balls. If it was just a "friendly" game, it was "so insignificant," yet significant enough to abandon your friends.

>

> I marvel at peoples' unwillingness to simply do their best to play by the rules and move on without complaint and undeterred by the manufactured drama about how cruel the course layout might be.

 

 

I marvel at people's unwillingness to use common sense when playing a friendly game. It is obvious that there is either a stake hidden from his vantage point by a tree, or a stake missing. Not too often the cart path for that hole is OB (not including public road crossings of course), but hey, I guess stranger things have occurred.

 

In a friendly game, if someone had that big of a problem with me playing it, I'd say it isn't too friendly and I don't want to be playing with them. That isn't manufactured drama, I just don't have any desire to spend my free time doing the things I love with people who cannot apply logic to a situation and move on. If they continued to bring it up, I just don't want to continue to play with them. I am playing golf to enjoy myself, and I wouldn't enjoy playing with people like that. If you do, great.

 

In a tournament it is a different situation. If I get it wrong, I get DQ, but I'm also not going to give up on the quest to get it right. The rules afford me to right to play 2 and take it to the committee, and that would be what I did. In this friendly game, there is no committee. He didn't pay an entry fee to a tournament that he could get DQ from and miss out on whatever prize money or accolades are available for winning, and neither did the other folks in the group. There is no field to protect in his friendly game.

[Sawgrass]

You say to use "common sense" and "logic" rather than course markings. It's possible that there are missing ob posts, but beyond that possibility, which can be addressed by the rules or by the committee, there is truly no consistent common sense to apply -- course marking is a choice, not an equation. Surely some course markings are better than others, but a player doesn't (and shouldn't) get a vote or get to decide their propriety after his ball comes to rest. There is nothing more common-sensical than letting a person who is not affected by the outcome make the determination.

[bigred90gt]

> @Sawgrass said:

> You say to use "common sense" and "logic" rather than course markings. It's possible that there are missing ob posts, but beyond that possibility, which can be addressed by the rules or by the committee, there is truly no consistent common sense to apply -- course marking is a choice, not an equation. Surely some course markings are better than others, but a player doesn't (and shouldn't) get a vote or get to decide their propriety after his ball comes to rest. There is nothing more common-sensical than letting a person who is not affected by the outcome make the determination.

 

Which is why I also said (yet you didn’t seem to bother with that one) that if it is a course he plays frequently, to check with the pro. But nevermind that little nugget when you can argue and try to belittle someone instead.

 

You do what makes you feel good about yourself. All I’m saying is if I’m in a friendly game, I’m not calling anyone over to ask them about that (in my opinion, it’s not ob), and none of the people I play with would come over on their own to check and then stir up a bunch of nonsense about it. If they were that type of person, I wouldn’t be playing with them. In a tournament, I would make certain that there was no doubt in anyone’s mind.

[JSPXXVII]

Friendly game?, yes. Were we playing for money? Yes. So person(s) who made the decision would have benefited by this outcome. Regardless of whats at stake here is the fact that we were not playing in a tournament. There were people behind us breathing down our necks, both playing companions had actually walked over to my ball from the green to line up my ball from "visible stakes" and held up play. After they determined that my ball was OB, should I have walked over scouring for another white stake? At this point, what was I supposed to do? Hold up more time, to check if there are additional white stakes? I do not know where you guys live or how golf traffic is in your area, but I live in NY and played this round during early morning of labor day weekend, where golf courses were getting a lot of traffic. Slow play is one of most frustrating things to play though (ahem.... Bryson....), and Im sure all of you have experienced this.

 

Maybe, I should have been selfish and started to scour around. Im not too sure any more. One thing for sure is that from standing on top of my ball, it did "appear" in bounds, but lining up to next visible rear stake, which had to be about 70-80 yds away ball was clearly out of bounds. One of those things where common sense would have told you that my ball was in play, and it also felt like we were lining up to a wrong stake, as stakes were lined up every 10-15 yds. My best guess is that since the tree line bends out, next stake(s) were either hidden behind the trees or knocked down.

 

So, let me ask you guys another hypothetical question. Lets say your ball went in the sand trap, but once you get there, its filled with water. There isnt any place in the same bunker to take free relief. Rule clearly states that you must take 1 stroke penalty if youre taking a relief outside the bunker. How would you let your friends play that? Me personally, I would tell him/her to take a free drop outside of the bunker for the spirit of the game. I have done this previously and I will continue to do so in a friendly match.

 

I have also seen a ball land in a planter on edge of a round green. To take a free relief by the rules, he would have to go back to tee box, as this hole plays like 17th hole island green at the players championship. However, I told him to take a free drop, which would have been closer to the hole and laughed it off. This is the one of same player, who ruled my ball out of bounds.

 

I think Im very fair when i come across other player's ball ruling. Maybe Im just using this forum to vent, I dont know, but its interesting to read other people's perspectives.

[Sawgrass]

> @JSPXXVII said:

>

> I have also seen a ball land in a planter on edge of a round green. To take a free relief by the rules, he would have to go back to tee box, as this hole plays like 17th hole island green at the players championship. However, I told him to take a free drop, which would have been closer to the hole and laughed it off. This is the one of same player, who ruled my ball out of bounds.

>

> I think Im very fair when i come across other player's ball ruling. Maybe Im just using this forum to vent, I dont know, but its interesting to read other people's perspectives.

 

If the planter was immovable, and in the general area (fringe of the putting green) the player was entitled to a free drop outside the nearest point of relief, which could be anywhere other than on the green -- even the opposite side of the green if that's the nearest point of general area. If the planter was sitting on the green, just place the ball at the npr. I can't see why you'd go back to the tee -- and if you did that would cost a stroke.

 

I also see that you feel that since you were "generous" with a ruling for a player that that player should be generous to you. Another choice would be to play by the rules.

 

Hey, if you were ob you were ob. It's not the end of the world.

[LeoLeo99]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @JSPXXVII said:

> >

> > I have also seen a ball land in a planter on edge of a round green. To take a free relief by the rules, he would have to go back to tee box, as this hole plays like 17th hole island green at the players championship. However, I told him to take a free drop, which would have been closer to the hole and laughed it off. This is the one of same player, who ruled my ball out of bounds.

> >

> > I think Im very fair when i come across other player's ball ruling. Maybe Im just using this forum to vent, I dont know, but its interesting to read other people's perspectives.

>

> If the planter was immovable, and in the general area (fringe of the putting green) the player was entitled to a free drop outside the nearest point of relief, which could be anywhere other than on the green -- even the opposite side of the green if that's the nearest point of general area. If the planter was sitting on the green, just place the ball at the npr. I can't see why you'd go back to the tee -- and if you did that would cost a stroke.

>

> I also see that you feel that since you were "generous" with a ruling for a player that that player should be generous to you. Another choice would be to play by the rules.

>

> Hey, if you were ob you were ob. It's not the end of the world.

 

I would think that 17.1a/1 cuts both ways. The rules allow that committees make errors in marking courses and the player is not to simply accept markings that are obviously incorrect.

[JSPXXVII]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @JSPXXVII said:

> >

 

> If the planter was immovable, and in the general area (fringe of the putting green) the player was entitled to a free drop outside the nearest point of relief, which could be anywhere other than on the green -- even the opposite side of the green if that's the nearest point of general area. If the planter was sitting on the green, just place the ball at the npr. I can't see why you'd go back to the tee -- and if you did that would cost a stroke.

>

> I also see that you feel that since you were "generous" with a ruling for a player that that player should be generous to you. Another choice would be to play by the rules.

>

> Hey, if you were ob you were ob. It's not the end of the world.

 

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @JSPXXVII said:

> >

> > I have also seen a ball land in a planter on edge of a round green. To take a free relief by the rules, he would have to go back to tee box, as this hole plays like 17th hole island green at the players championship. However, I told him to take a free drop, which would have been closer to the hole and laughed it off. This is the one of same player, who ruled my ball out of bounds.

> >

> > I think Im very fair when i come across other player's ball ruling. Maybe Im just using this forum to vent, I dont know, but its interesting to read other people's perspectives.

>

> If the planter was immovable, and in the general area (fringe of the putting green) the player was entitled to a free drop outside the nearest point of relief, which could be anywhere other than on the green -- even the opposite side of the green if that's the nearest point of general area. If the planter was sitting on the green, just place the ball at the npr. I can't see why you'd go back to the tee -- and if you did that would cost a stroke.

>

> I also see that you feel that since you were "generous" with a ruling for a player that that player should be generous to you. Another choice would be to play by the rules.

>

> Hey, if you were ob you were ob. It's not the end of the world.

 

Multiple Planter were on fringe of round green. Nearest point of relief, not closer to pin would have been in the water. Hence, he would have to gone back to tee box.

 

[Vindog]

I’m not going to quote, but if we are playing for money we are playing any all of the rules that we possibly can apply. Am I going to watch like a hawk for any and every rule infraction? Of course not, but you can bet that procedures are followed to the letter, OB is OB, lost balls are lost and we are taking all of the penalty strokes including myself. Cards, darts, golf or tiddlywinks it doesn’t matter.

 

It’s easier that way in the long run. Everyone knows where they stand, and the decisions are made for you.

[Augster]

Playing for money? That ball is OB all the time every time. Playing “for fun”, I could care less what you do.

[BiggErn]

> @Augster said:

> Playing for money? That ball is OB all the time every time. Playing “for fun”, I could care less what you do.

 

Not OB regardless

[Krt22]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @Augster said:

> > Playing for money? That ball is OB all the time every time. Playing “for fun”, I could care less what you do.

>

> Not OB regardless

 

Let me guess, you play all divots as GUR?

[BiggErn]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @Augster said:

> > > Playing for money? That ball is OB all the time every time. Playing “for fun”, I could care less what you do.

> >

> > Not OB regardless

>

> Let me guess, you play all divots as GUR?

 

No that’s the county am that does that.

[Sawgrass]

> @JSPXXVII said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > > @JSPXXVII said:

> > >

>

> > If the planter was immovable, and in the general area (fringe of the putting green) the player was entitled to a free drop outside the nearest point of relief, which could be anywhere other than on the green -- even the opposite side of the green if that's the nearest point of general area. If the planter was sitting on the green, just place the ball at the npr. I can't see why you'd go back to the tee -- and if you did that would cost a stroke.

> >

> > I also see that you feel that since you were "generous" with a ruling for a player that that player should be generous to you. Another choice would be to play by the rules.

> >

> > Hey, if you were ob you were ob. It's not the end of the world.

>

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > > @JSPXXVII said:

> > >

> > > I have also seen a ball land in a planter on edge of a round green. To take a free relief by the rules, he would have to go back to tee box, as this hole plays like 17th hole island green at the players championship. However, I told him to take a free drop, which would have been closer to the hole and laughed it off. This is the one of same player, who ruled my ball out of bounds.

> > >

> > > I think Im very fair when i come across other player's ball ruling. Maybe Im just using this forum to vent, I dont know, but its interesting to read other people's perspectives.

> >

> > If the planter was immovable, and in the general area (fringe of the putting green) the player was entitled to a free drop outside the nearest point of relief, which could be anywhere other than on the green -- even the opposite side of the green if that's the nearest point of general area. If the planter was sitting on the green, just place the ball at the npr. I can't see why you'd go back to the tee -- and if you did that would cost a stroke.

> >

> > I also see that you feel that since you were "generous" with a ruling for a player that that player should be generous to you. Another choice would be to play by the rules.

> >

> > Hey, if you were ob you were ob. It's not the end of the world.

>

> Multiple Planter were on fringe of round green. Nearest point of relief, not closer to pin would have been in the water. Hence, he would have to gone back to tee box.

>

Please show me where in the rule allowing free relief from an immovable obstruction permits going back to a tee box.

And even if you he green we’re precisely circular, was the flagstick precisely in the center of the green?

[Vindog]

 

 

> @BiggErn said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @Augster said:

> > > > Playing for money? That ball is OB all the time every time. Playing “for fun”, I could care less what you do.

> > >

> > > Not OB regardless

> >

> > Let me guess, you play all divots as GUR?

>

> No that’s the county am that does that.

 

Hazzard County?

[DrewBallin]

If I was a playing partner, I'm calling that in all day. Play on buddy.

[BiggErn]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @Augster said:

> > > Playing for money? That ball is OB all the time every time. Playing “for fun”, I could care less what you do.

> >

> > Not OB regardless

>

> Let me guess, you play all divots as GUR?

 

And if a red stake is missing I guess you call it casual water.

[Sawgrass]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @Augster said:

> > > > Playing for money? That ball is OB all the time every time. Playing “for fun”, I could care less what you do.

> > >

> > > Not OB regardless

> >

> > Let me guess, you play all divots as GUR?

>

> And if a red stake is missing I guess you call it casual water.

 

Are you under the impression that stakes are required to define a red penalty area?

[BiggErn]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @Augster said:

> > > > > Playing for money? That ball is OB all the time every time. Playing “for fun”, I could care less what you do.

> > > >

> > > > Not OB regardless

> > >

> > > Let me guess, you play all divots as GUR?

> >

> > And if a red stake is missing I guess you call it casual water.

>

> Are you under the impression that stakes are required to define a red penalty area?

 

Yes the same as you would for OB.

[LeoLeo99]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > @Augster said:

> > > > > > Playing for money? That ball is OB all the time every time. Playing “for fun”, I could care less what you do.

> > > > >

> > > > > Not OB regardless

> > > >

> > > > Let me guess, you play all divots as GUR?

> > >

> > > And if a red stake is missing I guess you call it casual water.

> >

> > Are you under the impression that stakes are required to define a red penalty area?

>

> Yes the same as you would for OB.

 

That's not correct. The rules say you have to use common sense if stakes are missing and follow the natural boundary lines.

 

Sometimes you're allowed to use common sense.

[Sawgrass]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > @Augster said:

> > > > > > Playing for money? That ball is OB all the time every time. Playing “for fun”, I could care less what you do.

> > > > >

> > > > > Not OB regardless

> > > >

> > > > Let me guess, you play all divots as GUR?

> > >

> > > And if a red stake is missing I guess you call it casual water.

> >

> > Are you under the impression that stakes are required to define a red penalty area?

>

> Yes the same as you would for OB.

 

That is inaccurate. OB needs to be defined by the committee to exist. A pond is the equivalent of and played as a red penalty area despite a lack of marking.

[BiggErn]

> @LeoLeo99 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > @Augster said:

> > > > > > > Playing for money? That ball is OB all the time every time. Playing “for fun”, I could care less what you do.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not OB regardless

> > > > >

> > > > > Let me guess, you play all divots as GUR?

> > > >

> > > > And if a red stake is missing I guess you call it casual water.

> > >

> > > Are you under the impression that stakes are required to define a red penalty area?

> >

> > Yes the same as you would for OB.

>

> That's not correct. The rules say you have to use common sense if stakes are missing and follow the natural boundary lines.

>

> Sometimes you're allowed to use common sense.

 

That’s not what a lot of these guys are saying. They say common sense doesn’t matter and if stakes are missing you find one 60 yards away that cuts the corner of the green making it OB and play it that way.

[BiggErn]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > @Augster said:

> > > > > > > Playing for money? That ball is OB all the time every time. Playing “for fun”, I could care less what you do.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not OB regardless

> > > > >

> > > > > Let me guess, you play all divots as GUR?

> > > >

> > > > And if a red stake is missing I guess you call it casual water.

> > >

> > > Are you under the impression that stakes are required to define a red penalty area?

> >

> > Yes the same as you would for OB.

>

> That is inaccurate. OB needs to be defined by the committee to exist. A pond is the equivalent of and played as a red penalty area despite a lack of marking.

 

 

No it’s not. If there’s red stakes that define a water hazard up until a point where a stake should be but isn’t then just call it casual water and take relief. You say you can’t use common sense and must follow everything to the letter of the law. If the “committee” wanted something played a specific way without anything coming to question they should’ve done a better job at marking boundaries.

[2bGood]

> @bigred90gt said:

> > @2bGood said:

> > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > If you play the course often, ask the pro for clarification next time you go in. Shouldn’t take more than a few seconds to get the right answer.

> >

> > In my experience club pro's often don't know the rules very well.

>

> At a public course, the head pro is usually the one with the answers. Most public courses don't have much of a committee because they don't have much in the way of competitions like private clubs do. It wasn't league play, so there's no league committee to ask. If it's a private club, ask the committee, if public, I'll stick to my recommendation of asking the pro.

 

I don't disagree with your recommendation - who else are you going to ask? but (in my experience) pro's rarely have a strong knowledge of the rules and the answer you get might not actually be correct.

 

It could just be the pros I have met and dealt with on rules issues though.

[Sawgrass]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > @Augster said:

> > > > > > > > Playing for money? That ball is OB all the time every time. Playing “for fun”, I could care less what you do.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Not OB regardless

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Let me guess, you play all divots as GUR?

> > > > >

> > > > > And if a red stake is missing I guess you call it casual water.

> > > >

> > > > Are you under the impression that stakes are required to define a red penalty area?

> > >

> > > Yes the same as you would for OB.

> >

> > That is inaccurate. OB needs to be defined by the committee to exist. A pond is the equivalent of and played as a red penalty area despite a lack of marking.

>

>

> No it’s not. If there’s red stakes that define a water hazard up until a point where a stake should be but isn’t then just call it casual water and take relief. You say you can’t use common sense and must follow everything to the letter of the law. If the “committee” wanted something played a specific way without anything coming to question they should’ve done a better job at marking boundaries.

 

Yes, it is. A penalty area includes any body of water on the course (whether or not marked by the Committee) unless the committee says otherwise. Missing stakes don’t transform a pond into temporary water.

[BiggErn]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > @Augster said:

> > > > > > > > > Playing for money? That ball is OB all the time every time. Playing “for fun”, I could care less what you do.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Not OB regardless

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Let me guess, you play all divots as GUR?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And if a red stake is missing I guess you call it casual water.

> > > > >

> > > > > Are you under the impression that stakes are required to define a red penalty area?

> > > >

> > > > Yes the same as you would for OB.

> > >

> > > That is inaccurate. OB needs to be defined by the committee to exist. A pond is the equivalent of and played as a red penalty area despite a lack of marking.

> >

> >

> > No it’s not. If there’s red stakes that define a water hazard up until a point where a stake should be but isn’t then just call it casual water and take relief. You say you can’t use common sense and must follow everything to the letter of the law. If the “committee” wanted something played a specific way without anything coming to question they should’ve done a better job at marking boundaries.

>

> Yes, it is. A penalty area includes any body of water on the course (whether or not marked by the Committee) unless the committee says otherwise. Missing stakes don’t transform a pond into temporary water.

 

Then I can assume it’s a hazard that’s overflowed so casual water at the edge.

[Sawgrass]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Augster said:

> > > > > > > > > > Playing for money? That ball is OB all the time every time. Playing “for fun”, I could care less what you do.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Not OB regardless

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Let me guess, you play all divots as GUR?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And if a red stake is missing I guess you call it casual water.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Are you under the impression that stakes are required to define a red penalty area?

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes the same as you would for OB.

> > > >

> > > > That is inaccurate. OB needs to be defined by the committee to exist. A pond is the equivalent of and played as a red penalty area despite a lack of marking.

> > >

> > >

> > > No it’s not. If there’s red stakes that define a water hazard up until a point where a stake should be but isn’t then just call it casual water and take relief. You say you can’t use common sense and must follow everything to the letter of the law. If the “committee” wanted something played a specific way without anything coming to question they should’ve done a better job at marking boundaries.

> >

> > Yes, it is. A penalty area includes any body of water on the course (whether or not marked by the Committee) unless the committee says otherwise. Missing stakes don’t transform a pond into temporary water.

>

> Then I can assume it’s a hazard that’s overflowed so casual water at the edge.

 

There are no things called hazards any more, there is nothing called casual water anymore, and your assumptions put you in danger of rules violations.

[Halebopp]

> @BiggErn said:

> Then I can assume it’s a hazard that’s overflowed so casual water at the edge.

 

No you simply can not:

 

> 17.1a/1 Ball Is in Penalty Area Even if Penalty Area Is Improperly Marked

>

> If stakes defining a body of water as a penalty area are improperly located, a player is not allowed to take advantage of such an error by the Committee.

>

> For example, a ball is found in an expanse of water that, because of the configuration of the ground, is clearly part of the penalty area but is outside the stakes and, thus, technically outside the penalty area. The player may not claim that the ball at rest in the water is in temporary water since a penalty area includes any body of water on the course, whether or not marked by the Committee (see definition of "penalty area").

 

 

[BiggErn]

> @Halebopp said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > Then I can assume it’s a hazard that’s overflowed so casual water at the edge.

>

> No you simply can not:

>

> > 17.1a/1 Ball Is in Penalty Area Even if Penalty Area Is Improperly Marked

> >

> > If stakes defining a body of water as a penalty area are improperly located, a player is not allowed to take advantage of such an error by the Committee.

> >

> > For example, a ball is found in an expanse of water that, because of the configuration of the ground, is clearly part of the penalty area but is outside the stakes and, thus, technically outside the penalty area. The player may not claim that the ball at rest in the water is in temporary water since a penalty area includes any body of water on the course, whether or not marked by the Committee (see definition of "penalty area").

>

>

 

Sure I can. A hazard that is flooded is free relief. Since we can’t use common sense to determine when there’s obvious missing stakes for a boundary or hazard then use what judgement best suits you. Anyone that thinks the op’s ball is OB based on the picture he posted aren’t the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree and I’m just using their flawed logic to show how asinine it is.

[Halebopp]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @Halebopp said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > Then I can assume it’s a hazard that’s overflowed so casual water at the edge.

> >

> > No you simply can not:

> >

> > > 17.1a/1 Ball Is in Penalty Area Even if Penalty Area Is Improperly Marked

> > >

> > > If stakes defining a body of water as a penalty area are improperly located, a player is not allowed to take advantage of such an error by the Committee.

> > >

> > > For example, a ball is found in an expanse of water that, because of the configuration of the ground, is clearly part of the penalty area but is outside the stakes and, thus, technically outside the penalty area. The player may not claim that the ball at rest in the water is in temporary water since a penalty area includes any body of water on the course, whether or not marked by the Committee (see definition of "penalty area").

> >

> >

>

> Sure I can. A hazard that is flooded is free relief. Since we can’t use common sense to determine when there’s obvious missing stakes for a boundary or hazard then use what judgement best suits you. Anyone that thinks the op’s ball is OB based on the picture he posted aren’t the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree and I’m just using their flawed logic to show how asinine it is.

 

Ok, you're simply trolling, have a nice day.