A tour caddie with a push cart?

[Jc0]

Watching the Asian tour right now and one of the caddies is using a push cart. I doubt there is a rule against them, probably just more what the caddie is used too. Same as when a caddie uses one strap instead of two even though two is more efficient.

[Jc0]

> @Nard_S said:

> > @SirFuego said:

> > > @Nard_S said:

> > > Pushing anything is not an efficient use of energy.Pulling is better. Thats just physics 101.

> > Physics-wise, yes. Anatomically, though, as they are designed today, a push cart is easier on the body because it keeps the body aligned.

> > http://www.mytpi.com/articles/health/should_golfers_push_pull_or_carry_their_clubs

> >

> > Perhaps pull carts should be using a rickshaw design instead.

>

> When I see my partners hunched over pushing them and I'm shoulders back walking, I fail to see benefit other than less calorie burn.

 

it depends. Carrying puts a ton of pressure on the lower back. That being said I don't thing golf cart handles are the right height. Bring your arms together like you would to push a cart and your hands are naturally around mid chest level, yet the hand position for carts is near the belt. They either need to raise the hand position or increase the handle width (wider is more comfortable lower) to make them better ergonomically.

[wkuo3]

> @"j.b.newton" said:

> > @Mych said:

> > I've always wondered when we'd see someone carry/push their own bag and play without a caddie. Players try to forego managers and agents to avoid paying a percentage, I could imagine foregoing a caddy.

>

> Next on the tee, Matt Kuchar.

>

 

Does anyone want to caddie for him ? Or send in a representative from the Union to negotiate with him before picking up the loop.

I despise those whom has plenty but continue to mooch off the less fortunate. Especially to someone whom goes to the battle with you.

[Golfjack]

> @Jc0 said:

> Watching the Asian tour right now and one of the caddies is using a push cart. I doubt there is a rule against them, probably just more what the caddie is used too. Same as when a caddie uses one strap instead of two even though two is more efficient.

 

On Asian Tour pro's don't make enough to have a permanent travelling caddie. Thus some use local volunteers who will definitely use a push cart. At least that's what I've seen. Euro Tour I'm guessing they can afford a full time professional caddie. It's not a huge deal for physically fit men to carry that bag. Do it for 4 days though I think I'd be pretty tired LOL. On hilly courses I think personally I'd still use a trolley. It's just much easier. Though back in the states I used to carry too. It does feel more at one with the course. On a cart I feel like I'm just rushing around. I do miss playing golf at a relaxed pace. In Asia it's usually not that relaxed.

[Nard_S]

> @Jc0 said:

> > @Nard_S said:

> > > @SirFuego said:

> > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > Pushing anything is not an efficient use of energy.Pulling is better. Thats just physics 101.

> > > Physics-wise, yes. Anatomically, though, as they are designed today, a push cart is easier on the body because it keeps the body aligned.

> > > http://www.mytpi.com/articles/health/should_golfers_push_pull_or_carry_their_clubs

> > >

> > > Perhaps pull carts should be using a rickshaw design instead.

> >

> > When I see my partners hunched over pushing them and I'm shoulders back walking, I fail to see benefit other than less calorie burn.

>

> it depends. Carrying puts a ton of pressure on the lower back. That being said I don't thing golf cart handles are the right height. Bring your arms together like you would to push a cart and your hands are naturally around mid chest level, yet the hand position for carts is near the belt. They either need to raise the hand position or increase the handle width (wider is more comfortable lower) to make them better ergonomically.

 

Well, I have lower back issues, had them for 25 years. My kids have it too, so did my Dad. The official reason for them all is poor posture, particular in the upper back which leads to mis alignment in lower. Push cart posture is all wrong for that. Carrying promotes straight , shoulder back walking and also promotes strengthening muscles around lower area. Both these things promote a healthy spine. I carried 4X in 3 weeks, outside of fatigue, my back actually feels better than day to day. If my issue was more severe, like a pinched nerve or deteriorated disc, I would use a pull cart, not push or better yet splurge on a smart cart that followed me.

[Ignatius Reilly]

> @Golfjack said:

> > @Jc0 said:

> > Watching the Asian tour right now and one of the caddies is using a push cart. I doubt there is a rule against them, probably just more what the caddie is used too. Same as when a caddie uses one strap instead of two even though two is more efficient.

>

> On Asian Tour pro's don't make enough to have a permanent travelling caddie. Thus some use local volunteers who will definitely use a push cart. At least that's what I've seen. Euro Tour I'm guessing they can afford a full time professional caddie. ** It's not a huge deal for physically fit men to carry that bag.** Do it for 4 days though I think I'd be pretty tired LOL. On hilly courses I think personally I'd still use a trolley. It's just much easier. Though back in the states I used to carry too. It does feel more at one with the course. On a cart I feel like I'm just rushing around. I do miss playing golf at a relaxed pace. In Asia it's usually not that relaxed.

 

I'm kind of stunned at the conversation here.

 

First - it really is not a huge deal to walk and carry a bag. I and most of my friends do it most of the time, and we're hardly fit, just not... unfit.

 

Second - we all expect pro golfers to be working out as part of improving their game. Surely caddies should be doing the same. They should be making sure they're fit enough to finish the round having walked and carried some 40 lbs of bag, and are still able to keep up and have a clear mind and not be fatigued.

 

It's not much to ask or expect of them.

 

[Soloman1]

I'll bet you aren't carrying a big staff bag filled with a dozen balls, rain gear, water, etc.

 

I used to mock people riding in carts and swore that I would never sit in a cart or use a pull cart. Boy, I was really being a jerk. Then I herniated a disc, then I turned 50, then I turned 60, then I turned...

[macedan]

> @Nard_S said:

> > @Jc0 said:

> > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > @SirFuego said:

> > > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > > Pushing anything is not an efficient use of energy.Pulling is better. Thats just physics 101.

> > > > Physics-wise, yes. Anatomically, though, as they are designed today, a push cart is easier on the body because it keeps the body aligned.

> > > > http://www.mytpi.com/articles/health/should_golfers_push_pull_or_carry_their_clubs

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps pull carts should be using a rickshaw design instead.

> > >

> > > When I see my partners hunched over pushing them and I'm shoulders back walking, I fail to see benefit other than less calorie burn.

> >

> > it depends. Carrying puts a ton of pressure on the lower back. That being said I don't thing golf cart handles are the right height. Bring your arms together like you would to push a cart and your hands are naturally around mid chest level, yet the hand position for carts is near the belt. They either need to raise the hand position or increase the handle width (wider is more comfortable lower) to make them better ergonomically.

>

> Well, I have lower back issues, had them for 25 years. My kids have it too, so did my Dad. The official reason for them all is poor posture, particular in the upper back which leads to mis alignment in lower. Push cart posture is all wrong for that. Carrying promotes straight , shoulder back walking and also promotes strengthening muscles around lower area. Both these things promote a healthy spine. I carried 4X in 3 weeks, outside of fatigue, my back actually feels better than day to day. If my issue was more severe, like a pinched nerve or deteriorated disc, I would use a pull cart, not push or better yet splurge on a smart cart that followed me.

 

Lol how is push cart posture wrong? Assuming you have the handle at the right height and tip the cart a little towards you when going up an incline you are literally pushing the cart in an upright posture without having the need to always have a slight lean forward to counter the weight of a bag full of clubs and balls on your back pulling your own center of gravity further behind you. I have nothing against carrying, I started carrying and still do occasionally and while, yes, it does promote strengthening of muscle groups, to say that having 20 pounds of material behind you and having to constantly lean forward and use your core more for balance is better posture than using a push cart with a handle at the *proper* height is just objectively not true.

 

As for push vs. pull while yes pulling is better from a physics standpoint, anatomically this is not the case as you have to walk constantly with your spinal column twisted in order to pull the cart. I do agree the smart cart would be pretty cool, would be like having a personal caddy on the course.

[macedan]

> @macedan said:

> > @Nard_S said:

> > > @Jc0 said:

> > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > > @SirFuego said:

> > > > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > > > Pushing anything is not an efficient use of energy.Pulling is better. Thats just physics 101.

> > > > > Physics-wise, yes. Anatomically, though, as they are designed today, a push cart is easier on the body because it keeps the body aligned.

> > > > > http://www.mytpi.com/articles/health/should_golfers_push_pull_or_carry_their_clubs

> > > > >

> > > > > Perhaps pull carts should be using a rickshaw design instead.

> > > >

> > > > When I see my partners hunched over pushing them and I'm shoulders back walking, I fail to see benefit other than less calorie burn.

> > >

> > > it depends. Carrying puts a ton of pressure on the lower back. That being said I don't thing golf cart handles are the right height. Bring your arms together like you would to push a cart and your hands are naturally around mid chest level, yet the hand position for carts is near the belt. They either need to raise the hand position or increase the handle width (wider is more comfortable lower) to make them better ergonomically.

> >

> > Well, I have lower back issues, had them for 25 years. My kids have it too, so did my Dad. The official reason for them all is poor posture, particular in the upper back which leads to mis alignment in lower. Push cart posture is all wrong for that. Carrying promotes straight , shoulder back walking and also promotes strengthening muscles around lower area. Both these things promote a healthy spine. I carried 4X in 3 weeks, outside of fatigue, my back actually feels better than day to day. If my issue was more severe, like a pinched nerve or deteriorated disc, I would use a pull cart, not push or better yet splurge on a smart cart that followed me.

>

> How is push cart posture wrong? Assuming you have the handle at the right height and tip the cart a little towards you when going up an incline you are literally pushing the cart in an upright posture without having the need to always have a slight lean forward to counter the weight of a bag full of clubs and balls on your back pulling your own center of gravity further behind you. I have nothing against carrying, I started carrying and still do occasionally and while, yes, it does promote strengthening of muscle groups, to say that having 20 pounds of material behind you and having to constantly lean forward and use your core more for balance is better posture than using a push cart with a handle at the *proper* height is just objectively not true.

>

> As for push vs. pull while yes pulling is better from a physics standpoint, anatomically this is not the case as you have to walk constantly with your spinal column twisted in order to pull the cart. I do agree the smart cart would be pretty cool, would be like having a personal caddy on the course.

 

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > @Golfjack said:

> > > @Jc0 said:

> > > Watching the Asian tour right now and one of the caddies is using a push cart. I doubt there is a rule against them, probably just more what the caddie is used too. Same as when a caddie uses one strap instead of two even though two is more efficient.

> >

> > On Asian Tour pro's don't make enough to have a permanent travelling caddie. Thus some use local volunteers who will definitely use a push cart. At least that's what I've seen. Euro Tour I'm guessing they can afford a full time professional caddie. ** It's not a huge deal for physically fit men to carry that bag.** Do it for 4 days though I think I'd be pretty tired LOL. On hilly courses I think personally I'd still use a trolley. It's just much easier. Though back in the states I used to carry too. It does feel more at one with the course. On a cart I feel like I'm just rushing around. I do miss playing golf at a relaxed pace. In Asia it's usually not that relaxed.

>

> I'm kind of stunned at the conversation here.

>

> First - it really is not a huge deal to walk and carry a bag. I and most of my friends do it most of the time, and we're hardly fit, just not... unfit.

>

> Second - we all expect pro golfers to be working out as part of improving their game. Surely caddies should be doing the same. They should be making sure they're fit enough to finish the round having walked and carried some 40 lbs of bag, and are still able to keep up and have a clear mind and not be fatigued.

>

> It's not much to ask or expect of them.

>

 

To play devils advocate, why does it matter how someone gets the bag around the course? So long as they can get the bag where it needs to be in a timely manner without troubling others, then why does it matter? Fit or not.

 

I get that things may need to be done manually so power carts are out. But pushing a wheel is still manual and the wheel was invented ~3,500BC. What about bags with one strap vs dual straps? For decades they used a single strap. I bet the first guy that used dual straps was laughed at. We look for better ways to accomplish menial, laborious tasks in our daily lives then why should golf be different? When you hire a brick layer, do you care if he carries an armload of bricks or uses a wheelbarrow? Do you push your mower or ride it? Or maybe a lawn service? Does it matter if your lawn service uses a rider vs a walk behind? Seems none of it matters so long as the job gets done properly, so why should it matter for the guy carrying someone else's clubs?

 

Again I'm just playing devils advocate. Not saying pushing is easier or harder.

[MaxBuck]

> To play devils advocate, why does it matter how someone gets the bag around the course?

 

Same reason pros can't play in shorts. It's all about the look.

 

 

[ZAP]

It's really hard to say if it will "ever" happen. I have personally used a push cart for years and it just makes the game more enjoyable for me. Which is a big part of the reason I play in the first place.

[bscinstnct]

> @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > @Golfjack said:

> > > @Jc0 said:

> > > Watching the Asian tour right now and one of the caddies is using a push cart. I doubt there is a rule against them, probably just more what the caddie is used too. Same as when a caddie uses one strap instead of two even though two is more efficient.

> >

> > On Asian Tour pro's don't make enough to have a permanent travelling caddie. Thus some use local volunteers who will definitely use a push cart. At least that's what I've seen. Euro Tour I'm guessing they can afford a full time professional caddie. ** It's not a huge deal for physically fit men to carry that bag.** Do it for 4 days though I think I'd be pretty tired LOL. On hilly courses I think personally I'd still use a trolley. It's just much easier. Though back in the states I used to carry too. It does feel more at one with the course. On a cart I feel like I'm just rushing around. I do miss playing golf at a relaxed pace. In Asia it's usually not that relaxed.

>

> I'm kind of stunned at the conversation here.

>

> First - it really is not a huge deal to walk and carry a bag. I and most of my friends do it most of the time, and we're hardly fit, just not... unfit.

>

> Second - we all expect pro golfers to be working out as part of improving their game. Surely caddies should be doing the same. They should be making sure they're fit enough to finish the round having walked and carried some 40 lbs of bag, and are still able to keep up and have a clear mind and not be fatigued.

>

> It's not much to ask or expect of them.

>

 

 

I can’t recall if anyone said they can be used on the PGA Tour or not?

 

I could see a situation arise where a really sharp caddie or potential caddie, one who a player really likes as far as advice on clubs, greens, motivation, is too old or not capable of carrying.

 

Back in the day, all caddies die was carry the bag. They didn’t go out, read the course, give advice.

But now, actually carrying the bag seems like the least skilled thing they do.

 

[QuigleyDU]

> @CCTxGolf said:

> The bags are not that heavy. It’s does not really require very much energy to carry one.

>

> As for the advertising logic. The cart would really reduce the available space to advertise. And Clic gear and bag boy prob have mini tour money for marketing, not really PGA tour bag deal money

 

This is the case. The 50 pounds leather bags are a thing of the past. They design these tour staff bags to be pretty light using high tech light weight materials. I would wager the ave tour staff bag fully loaded weighs around 25-30 pounds. That is not too bad, considering that the caddie does not have to hit shots, and that is his job. I think the Sherpas on everest would love to carry something that light, haha.

 

That being said, I would be fine seeing caddies pushing bags on carts.

 

 

[Strömsborg]

I usually carry a golf bag and plays golf at the same time. Just carrying a bag should be the least of a tour caddies worries.

Actually a push cart would get in the way. You cant walk across greens and tees, you have to avoid steep slopes and deep rough.

[MidwestGolfBum]

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > > @Golfjack said:

> > > > @Jc0 said:

> > > > Watching the Asian tour right now and one of the caddies is using a push cart. I doubt there is a rule against them, probably just more what the caddie is used too. Same as when a caddie uses one strap instead of two even though two is more efficient.

> > >

> > > On Asian Tour pro's don't make enough to have a permanent travelling caddie. Thus some use local volunteers who will definitely use a push cart. At least that's what I've seen. Euro Tour I'm guessing they can afford a full time professional caddie. ** It's not a huge deal for physically fit men to carry that bag.** Do it for 4 days though I think I'd be pretty tired LOL. On hilly courses I think personally I'd still use a trolley. It's just much easier. Though back in the states I used to carry too. It does feel more at one with the course. On a cart I feel like I'm just rushing around. I do miss playing golf at a relaxed pace. In Asia it's usually not that relaxed.

> >

> > I'm kind of stunned at the conversation here.

> >

> > First - it really is not a huge deal to walk and carry a bag. I and most of my friends do it most of the time, and we're hardly fit, just not... unfit.

> >

> > Second - we all expect pro golfers to be working out as part of improving their game. Surely caddies should be doing the same. They should be making sure they're fit enough to finish the round having walked and carried some 40 lbs of bag, and are still able to keep up and have a clear mind and not be fatigued.

> >

> > It's not much to ask or expect of them.

> >

>

>

> I can’t recall if anyone said they can be used on the PGA Tour or not?

>

> I could see a situation arise where a really sharp caddie or potential caddie, one who a player really likes as far as advice on clubs, greens, motivation, is too old or not capable of carrying.

>

> Back in the day, all caddies die was carry the bag. They didn’t go out, read the course, give advice.

> But now, actually carrying the bag seems like the least skilled thing they do.

>

 

It was answered, and you cannot use a push cart on several tours, the PGA included. That is an unfortunate reason that one would need to retire from being a caddie, but not one that is unheard of. There are plenty of jobs that you are essentially forced into retirement because of the fact that you can no longer do the physical part that the job requires.

 

While caddies have more responsibilities now, they are also given better tools for those duties. They have bags that are easier to carry, more tools available to gather information before rounds start, and more staff supporting the players than ever before.

[Shipwreck]

I remember when I was vehemently anti push cart. I was an early 20s, strapping young guy who loaded bombs for a living in the Navy. Not some pansy a$$ soy latte lover who’s shoulders and back couldn’t bare the weight of a golf bag.

 

Then I got smart because, after back surgery in 2015, there is literally no reason to carry a GD golf bag. I walk the course whenever I can, I work out 3-4 days a week etc and even then I still can’t fathom carrying a bag.

 

If it makes me a wuss for wanting to use a push cart, come at me brah!

 

As far as seeing it on tour? Meh I don’t care either way. You take the job knowing you’re gonna be schlepping a staffy loaded with stuff. If tomorrow they started to allow it, I don’t think you’d see a sudden change in caddies pushing a cart.