Should Cameron Champ get away from Sean Foley?

[MountainGoat]

> @MountainGoat said:

> Yes.

OK, so maybe I was wrong.

 

[bladehunter]

> @Man_O_War said:

> > @farmer said:

> > Not a bad gig, show up once a year, win a tournament and a million+ dollars. The rest of the time, work on your game and play a lot of nice courses.

>

> 369 yard drive into the breeze on 18. he showed up

 

That was plain filthy. A nasty low draw bullet. After backing off.

 

Just noticed his name backwards is his Grandpas name. Mac Cam. Pretty cool. I’m a sucker for a good story. I was lucky to have the best grandpa ever. Looks like he did equally as well. Genuine souls like Mac are rare on this earth. Prayers coming your way Mac.

[QuigleyDU]

I like watching him play. I am amazed at how hard he hits the ball and just wonder if he was more efficient how far would the ball go. With the driver he seem to just hit a really low but relatively spiny ball. launches the ball around 8-10 degrees but still carries it out past 300.

 

I hope he can stay healthy this year.

[gioguy21]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

 

not me, i stand by what i said about foley. one win does not a good instructor make - especially if you look at the downturn he had prior to.

[LICC]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

>

> not me, i stand by what i said about foley. one win does not a good instructor make - especially if you look at the downturn he had prior to.

 

Have to agree. The win shows his potential. He putted and scrambled very well this week. I hope he can maintain a high level of play all year.

[dalehead]

> @LICC said:

> > @dalehead said:

> > Picked a bad time to ask this question.

>

> Given the result it seems like it was the perfect time to ask the question.

 

Only if you think the OP was trying to make the point that CC should stay with Foley.

 

 

[QuigleyDU]

 

> @LICC said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

> >

> > not me, i stand by what i said about foley. one win does not a good instructor make - especially if you look at the downturn he had prior to.

>

> Have to agree. The win shows his potential. He putted and scrambled very well this week. I hope he can maintain a high level of play all year.

 

I think the majority of the issues last year were due to injury. Probably back issues due to swing methodology.... hahaha. For what it is worth, I do not see much of Foley's influence in his swing. or at least as I understand it.

[Shipwreck]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

>

> not me, i stand by what i said about foley. one win does not a good instructor make - especially if you look at the downturn he had prior to.

 

It’s like George Gankas (and this is in no way a slight against him or his coaching). Wolfe wins and suddenly GG’s stock goes through the roof and everyone from kids to middle aged investment bankers want that swing, which I feel is a terrible way to teach people.

 

Everyone has a natural swing that can be fine tuned to get a result. Adam Scott, IMHO, has a picture perfect golf swing that I would kill for, but unless I’m willing to completely undo everything in my swing, it ain’t gonna happen.

[GoGoErky]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

>

> not me, i stand by what i said about foley. one win does not a good instructor make - especially if you look at the downturn he had prior to.

 

Technically it’s 2 wins on the pga tour and one on web.com

[gioguy21]

> @GoGoErky said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

> >

> > not me, i stand by what i said about foley. one win does not a good instructor make - especially if you look at the downturn he had prior to.

>

> Technically it’s 2 wins on the pga tour and one on web.com

 

pretty sure he wasn't working with foley while on the web.com...

[grm24]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @GoGoErky said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

> > >

> > > not me, i stand by what i said about foley. one win does not a good instructor make - especially if you look at the downturn he had prior to.

> >

> > Technically it’s 2 wins on the pga tour and one on web.com

>

> pretty sure he wasn't working with foley while on the web.com...

 

He was. He has been with Foley since he was a teenager.

[QuigleyDU]

> @grm24 said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

> > > >

> > > > not me, i stand by what i said about foley. one win does not a good instructor make - especially if you look at the downturn he had prior to.

> > >

> > > Technically it’s 2 wins on the pga tour and one on web.com

> >

> > pretty sure he wasn't working with foley while on the web.com...

>

> He was.

 

since he was a kid.

[Darth Putter]

According to Golf Digest, Cameron Champ is one of only 21 golfers in history to win twice in his first 33 starts on the PGA Tour.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/cameron-champs-emotional-victory-an-homage-to-the-greatest-man-alive-his-ailing-grandfather

[Ignatius Reilly]

> @GoGoErky said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

> >

> > not me, i stand by what i said about foley. one win does not a good instructor make - especially if you look at the downturn he had prior to.

>

> Technically it’s 2 wins on the pga tour and one on web.com

 

Okay, so 2 wins does not a good instructor make.

 

Which begs the question, how many wins does it take? How many does Champ need?

[Darth Putter]

> @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > @GoGoErky said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

> > >

> > > not me, i stand by what i said about foley. one win does not a good instructor make - especially if you look at the downturn he had prior to.

> >

> > Technically it’s 2 wins on the pga tour and one on web.com

>

> Okay, so 2 wins does not a good instructor make.

>

> Which begs the question, how many wins does it take? How many does Champ need?

 

Add in the two wins for Danny Willett at the DP World Championship and BMW PGA in the last year as well.

 

Justin Rose has been working with Sean Foley for the last nine years, how has he done this decade?

[GoGoErky]

> @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > @GoGoErky said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

> > >

> > > not me, i stand by what i said about foley. one win does not a good instructor make - especially if you look at the downturn he had prior to.

> >

> > Technically it’s 2 wins on the pga tour and one on web.com

>

> Okay, so 2 wins does not a good instructor make.

>

> Which begs the question, how many wins does it take? How many does Champ need?

 

Foley has plenty of wins and several big names under him or formerly under him.

[QuigleyDU]

> @"Darth Putter" said:

> > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

> > > >

> > > > not me, i stand by what i said about foley. one win does not a good instructor make - especially if you look at the downturn he had prior to.

> > >

> > > Technically it’s 2 wins on the pga tour and one on web.com

> >

> > Okay, so 2 wins does not a good instructor make.

> >

> > Which begs the question, how many wins does it take? How many does Champ need?

>

> Add in the two wins for Danny Willett at the DP World Championship and BMW PGA in the last year as well.

>

> Justin Rose has been working with Sean Foley for the last nine years, how has he done this decade?

 

All not good enough for most. I try not to put too much stock into which coach players go with. I just don't necessarily like it when a coach get labelled as player killers. Golf is hard, that is why coaches coach instead of play. Foley, Bender, Leadbetter seem to all have this label. I am not sure it is deserved.

[chigolfer1]

This didn't age well

[Krt22]

> @Man_O_War said:

> > @farmer said:

> > Not a bad gig, show up once a year, win a tournament and a million+ dollars. The rest of the time, work on your game and play a lot of nice courses.

>

> 369 yard drive into the breeze on 18. he showed up

 

More impressive than that we’re his drives on 12 and 17 all week. Just about everyone else laid back on those holes, he was aggressive and turned some into birdies after hitting lasers with driver.

 

> @"Darth Putter" said:

> According to Golf Digest, Cameron Champ is one of only 21 golfers in history to win twice in his first 33 starts on the PGA Tour.

>

> https://www.golfdigest.com/story/cameron-champs-emotional-victory-an-homage-to-the-greatest-man-alive-his-ailing-grandfather

 

Fluke, two wins on easy courses with relatively easy fields. Flash in the pan, move on! Who cares if he can hit flighted 350+ yard bullets into the wind

[PowderedToastMan]

I still think a switch to another instructor could add some different shots into Cam’s bag, and maybe not even a switch, just maybe some consulting with someone else. My reason for not thinking Foley is a great match for Cam hasn’t changed. I think Sean’s desire to create a lot of shaft lean in his players is why Cam struggles with distance control in the short irons. Cam is like a poor man’s version of young Tiger Woods (remember how he could dominate when his timing was on, but often his short irons were long and left because of shaft lean?)

 

I think you integrate what Champ is doing now with an old school teacher who really understands wedges and distance control and I think you have a better player, one that contests in multiple majors. In the modern game, Champ drives the ball way too good not to be on a ton of leaderboards.

 

I think Sean Foley is a great instructor and doesn’t get nearly enough credit. He’s even adapted a lot of his philosophy that he used to deem “biomechanically correct”. I just think his ideas aren’t perfect matches for every player, and I also don’t believe a single coach can know everything.

[musclefront]

> @"DON SVO" said:

> > @puttfordoux said:

> > Yes. Champ can only win tournaments whose name starts with 'S'.

>

> Since he’s qualified, I can’t wait to see him at the Shmashters in April.

 

Didn’t he say he’d boycott it even if he qualified or something last year? Can’t recall

 

[Titleist99]

Champs been practicing his arm swing with the wedges....Less violent. looks like he's swinging easier with the driver and the darn thing is going further…..LOL!

[grm24]

> @musclefront said:

> > @"DON SVO" said:

> > > @puttfordoux said:

> > > Yes. Champ can only win tournaments whose name starts with 'S'.

> >

> > Since he’s qualified, I can’t wait to see him at the Shmashters in April.

>

> Didn’t he say he’d boycott it even if he qualified or something last year? Can’t recall

>

No.

[Golf Scientist]

> @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> Okay, so 2 wins does not a good instructor make.

>

> Which begs the question, how many wins does it take? How many does Champ need?

 

As the stats that were shown tell us Champ lead the field in scrambling. Ball striking wise he didn't hit a fairway until the 12th hole in his final round (not even with an iron). Highly doubtful you can give Foley credit for Champ's short game performance, but we can definitely correlate the collective poor ball striking by players in his stable to him as he's the _swing coach_ . If Champ had failed to get even a single one of his shots up and down he very well could not have won (one less up and down and he would have been in a playoff, two less and someone else would have won). Just because Champ won doesn't mean Foley should get any credit, nor that it's in Champ's best interest to stay with Foley.

 

[dalehead]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

>

> not me, i stand by what i said about foley. one win does not a good instructor make - especially if you look at the downturn he had prior to.

 

The question is not whether Foley is a good instructor, in your opinion. The question asked was should CC drop him as his instructor. If I had just won a PGA Tour event I’d be hesitant to change anything. Even my socks.

[LICC]

> @"Golf Scientist" said:

> > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > Okay, so 2 wins does not a good instructor make.

> >

> > Which begs the question, how many wins does it take? How many does Champ need?

>

> As the stats that were shown tell us Champ lead the field in scrambling. Ball striking wise he didn't hit a fairway until the 12th hole in his final round (not even with an iron). Highly doubtful you can give Foley credit for Champ's short game performance, but we can definitely correlate the collective poor ball striking by players in his stable to him as he's the _swing coach_ . If Champ had failed to get even a single one of his shots up and down he very well could not have won (one less up and down and he would have been in a playoff, two less and someone else would have won). Just because Champ won doesn't mean Foley should get any credit, nor that it's in Champ's best interest to stay with Foley.

>

 

Good point. He did a great job scrambling, but he had to do a great job scrambling because he didn’t hit the greens.

[gioguy21]

> @dalehead said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

> >

> > not me, i stand by what i said about foley. one win does not a good instructor make - especially if you look at the downturn he had prior to.

>

> The question is not whether Foley is a good instructor, in your opinion. The question asked was should CC drop him as his instructor. If I had just won a PGA Tour event I’d be hesitant to change anything. Even my socks.

 

The question was posed prior to this win, during what most would consider a rough time for cam. The answer a month ago might've been different than today.

[Ignatius Reilly]

> @"Golf Scientist" said:

> > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > Okay, so 2 wins does not a good instructor make.

> >

> > Which begs the question, how many wins does it take? How many does Champ need?

>

> As the stats that were shown tell us Champ lead the field in scrambling. Ball striking wise he didn't hit a fairway until the 12th hole in his final round (not even with an iron). Highly doubtful you can give Foley credit for Champ's short game performance, but we can definitely correlate the collective poor ball striking by players in his stable to him as he's the _swing coach_ . If Champ had failed to get even a single one of his shots up and down he very well could not have won (one less up and down and he would have been in a playoff, two less and someone else would have won). **Just because Champ won doesn't mean Foley should get any credit,** nor that it's in Champ's best interest to stay with Foley.

>

 

No credit at all? As in..... none?

 

Interesting perspective.

 

Before his win last year, I was a little dismissive of Champ as just being a long-hitting phenom, and not much else. All "drive for show", and not enough dough. But now he's got two wins and I'm looking at him differently. Maybe he's matured, improved the rest of his game.

 

If we don't credit Foley, then who? Does he have a short-game and scrambling coach? I've never heard of guys with a separate coach for that (other than putting), but I'm not that plugged in to who's coaching who for what.

 

[dalehead]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @dalehead said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

> > >

> > > not me, i stand by what i said about foley. one win does not a good instructor make - especially if you look at the downturn he had prior to.

> >

> > The question is not whether Foley is a good instructor, in your opinion. The question asked was should CC drop him as his instructor. If I had just won a PGA Tour event I’d be hesitant to change anything. Even my socks.

>

> The question was posed prior to this win, during what most would consider a rough time for cam. The answer a month ago might've been different than today.

 

That’s exactly the point.

 

 

[Krt22]

> @"Golf Scientist" said:

> > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > Okay, so 2 wins does not a good instructor make.

> >

> > Which begs the question, how many wins does it take? How many does Champ need?

>

> As the stats that were shown tell us Champ lead the field in scrambling. Ball striking wise he didn't hit a fairway until the 12th hole in his final round (not even with an iron). Highly doubtful you can give Foley credit for Champ's short game performance, but we can definitely correlate the collective poor ball striking by players in his stable to him as he's the _swing coach_ . If Champ had failed to get even a single one of his shots up and down he very well could not have won (one less up and down and he would have been in a playoff, two less and someone else would have won). Just because Champ won doesn't mean Foley should get any credit, nor that it's in Champ's best interest to stay with Foley.

>

 

Why I fully agree his short game is largely discounted at times, his ball striking on Sunday wasnt as bad as that single state might suggest. The fairways hit stat at this course in particular is deceiving, they were incredibly narrow and hard baked, so even good shots down the middle could easily end up in the rough. He hit a lot of shots out of the first cut (with wedges). He was still 3 under through 12 despite not hitting a single fairway. He also led the field in SG off the tee and SG tee to green, both ball striking metrics. He's one of the cases where the SG stats tell a different story than traditional fwy/greens hit. Typically for any given week, the guy who wins will also be near the top in SG putting. He won despite being 28 in SG putting, which shows just how solid his ball striking and scrambling really was.