Should Cameron Champ get away from Sean Foley?

[Barfolomew]

> @J13 said:

> He's been on tour for a minute. Give the kid some time. As coaches I'd like to see him go to whoever DJ worked with to dial in wedges.

 

Mr. Trackman...... calling Mr. Trackman

[LICC]

How many Butch Harmon clients have had knee injuries? Tiger, DJ, Koepka, Els, Scott. Els was supposedly from a sailing accident, but it's still eerie.

[jim rockford]

good discussion.

 

any idea what DJ did to change his wedge game? other than trackman... i assume he changed the swing somewhat.

 

curious re: arm swing with wedges.................. i think mike weir is close to best wedge player ever. i thought he controlled his wedges with hip turn (or at least there was pretty aggressive hip turn). i could be completely wrong about this............. i assume arm swing flattens out wedge swing. complete opposite of lexi thompson who just hammers the ground.

[ksgolfcoach]

> @Kevinnz said:

> > @grm24 said:

> > > @pinhigh27 said:

> > > > @grm24 said:

> > > > > @Kevinnz said:

> > > > > Champ should give GG a call

> > > >

> > > > Why? So he could be T76 in a 78 player field like Wolff is this week going 73/78/78?

> > >

> > > what a stupid comment.

> >

> > It's no more stupid than people saying Champ should leave Foley for whatever reason they find convenient. Especially when the reason is that they hate Foley for some dumbazz reason. Foley has been Champs coach for a long time and has done well with him. Champ seems to have no issue with it. It's as dumb as all the people continually saying Tiger should go back to Butch.

>

> Well foley's student just cannot perform consistently. Look at rosie, probably his best performing student, yet consistently having trouble with his long game. The fact that foley cannot fix champs two way misses for almost a year shows it all. Is champ as long as last year? Obviously no.

 

Consistently having trouble with his long game???? The last 4 years he’s been in the top 10 every year in strokes gained tee to green. He’s literally been the definition of consistent and consistently one of the top two or three ball strikers alive.

 

[Krt22]

> @LICC said:

> > @grm24 said:

> > > @pinhigh27 said:

> > > > @grm24 said:

> > > > > @Kevinnz said:

> > > > > Champ should give GG a call

> > > >

> > > > Why? So he could be T76 in a 78 player field like Wolff is this week going 73/78/78?

> > >

> > > what a stupid comment.

> >

> > It's no more stupid than people saying Champ should leave Foley for whatever reason they find convenient. Especially when the reason is that they hate Foley for some dumbazz reason. Foley has been Champs coach for a long time and has done well with him. Champ seems to have no issue with it. It's as dumb as all the people continually saying Tiger should go back to Butch.

>

> Has Champ done well? Or as well as he could be doing?

 

CHamp is done, flash in the pan. Unless he get's gucci with GG he will lose his card. With his natural ability, if he get's Wolfe's move, he will drive it 400+ yards every time!

[Ignatius Reilly]

> @ksgolfcoach said:

> > @Kevinnz said:

> > > @grm24 said:

> > > > @pinhigh27 said:

> > > > > @grm24 said:

> > > > > > @Kevinnz said:

> > > > > > Champ should give GG a call

> > > > >

> > > > > Why? So he could be T76 in a 78 player field like Wolff is this week going 73/78/78?

> > > >

> > > > what a stupid comment.

> > >

> > > It's no more stupid than people saying Champ should leave Foley for whatever reason they find convenient. Especially when the reason is that they hate Foley for some dumbazz reason. Foley has been Champs coach for a long time and has done well with him. Champ seems to have no issue with it. It's as dumb as all the people continually saying Tiger should go back to Butch.

> >

> > Well foley's student just cannot perform consistently. Look at rosie, probably his best performing student, yet consistently having trouble with his long game. The fact that foley cannot fix champs two way misses for almost a year shows it all. Is champ as long as last year? Obviously no.

>

> Consistently having trouble with his long game???? The last 4 years he’s been in the top 10 every year in strokes gained tee to green. He’s literally been the definition of consistent and consistently one of the top two or three ball strikers alive.

>

 

You make some good points.

 

OTOH, Rosie's not done well with Foley. He's been with him for a decade now, and it's really starting to show.

 

A handful (24) of pro wins, a FedEx cup, a major....

 

I bet if you asked Rosie in private he'd say "I wish I'd never met that guy". And then everyone would have a laugh....

[Kevinnz]

> @ksgolfcoach said:

> > @Kevinnz said:

> > > @grm24 said:

> > > > @pinhigh27 said:

> > > > > @grm24 said:

> > > > > > @Kevinnz said:

> > > > > > Champ should give GG a call

> > > > >

> > > > > Why? So he could be T76 in a 78 player field like Wolff is this week going 73/78/78?

> > > >

> > > > what a stupid comment.

> > >

> > > It's no more stupid than people saying Champ should leave Foley for whatever reason they find convenient. Especially when the reason is that they hate Foley for some dumbazz reason. Foley has been Champs coach for a long time and has done well with him. Champ seems to have no issue with it. It's as dumb as all the people continually saying Tiger should go back to Butch.

> >

> > Well foley's student just cannot perform consistently. Look at rosie, probably his best performing student, yet consistently having trouble with his long game. The fact that foley cannot fix champs two way misses for almost a year shows it all. Is champ as long as last year? Obviously no.

>

> Consistently having trouble with his long game???? The last 4 years he’s been in the top 10 every year in strokes gained tee to green. He’s literally been the definition of consistent and consistently one of the top two or three ball strikers alive.

>

 

Is rosie really doing foleys move? In a youtube clip rosie was literally saying he dumps his hands in before he rotates, contrary to foleys bump stack and rotate.

[GoGoErky]

> @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > @ksgolfcoach said:

> > > @Kevinnz said:

> > > > @grm24 said:

> > > > > @pinhigh27 said:

> > > > > > @grm24 said:

> > > > > > > @Kevinnz said:

> > > > > > > Champ should give GG a call

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why? So he could be T76 in a 78 player field like Wolff is this week going 73/78/78?

> > > > >

> > > > > what a stupid comment.

> > > >

> > > > It's no more stupid than people saying Champ should leave Foley for whatever reason they find convenient. Especially when the reason is that they hate Foley for some dumbazz reason. Foley has been Champs coach for a long time and has done well with him. Champ seems to have no issue with it. It's as dumb as all the people continually saying Tiger should go back to Butch.

> > >

> > > Well foley's student just cannot perform consistently. Look at rosie, probably his best performing student, yet consistently having trouble with his long game. The fact that foley cannot fix champs two way misses for almost a year shows it all. Is champ as long as last year? Obviously no.

> >

> > Consistently having trouble with his long game???? The last 4 years he’s been in the top 10 every year in strokes gained tee to green. He’s literally been the definition of consistent and consistently one of the top two or three ball strikers alive.

> >

>

> You make some good points.

>

> OTOH, Rosie's not done well with Foley. He's been with him for a decade now, and it's really starting to show.

>

> A handful (24) of pro wins, a FedEx cup, a major....

>

> I bet if you asked Rosie in private he'd say "I wish I'd never met that guy". And then everyone would have a laugh....

 

And a gold medal

[dpb5031]

> @Kevinnz said:

> > @ksgolfcoach said:

> > > @Kevinnz said:

> > > > @grm24 said:

> > > > > @pinhigh27 said:

> > > > > > @grm24 said:

> > > > > > > @Kevinnz said:

> > > > > > > Champ should give GG a call

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why? So he could be T76 in a 78 player field like Wolff is this week going 73/78/78?

> > > > >

> > > > > what a stupid comment.

> > > >

> > > > It's no more stupid than people saying Champ should leave Foley for whatever reason they find convenient. Especially when the reason is that they hate Foley for some dumbazz reason. Foley has been Champs coach for a long time and has done well with him. Champ seems to have no issue with it. It's as dumb as all the people continually saying Tiger should go back to Butch.

> > >

> > > Well foley's student just cannot perform consistently. Look at rosie, probably his best performing student, yet consistently having trouble with his long game. The fact that foley cannot fix champs two way misses for almost a year shows it all. Is champ as long as last year? Obviously no.

> >

> > Consistently having trouble with his long game???? The last 4 years he’s been in the top 10 every year in strokes gained tee to green. He’s literally been the definition of consistent and consistently one of the top two or three ball strikers alive.

> >

>

> Is rosie really doing foleys move? In a youtube clip rosie was literally saying he dumps his hands in before he rotates, contrary to foleys bump stack and rotate.

 

It's all about getting arm swing and pivot in sync thru the zone from hip high to hip high. Some players need to start the arms down first to get them out in front (Tiger under Butch and apparently Adam Scott), and some are better off feeling like they're leaving their arms up, firing the pivot hard, with the "feeling" of leaving the arms behind. This seems to be what GG advocates, but is dependent upon the position of the arms at the top, as well as pivoting the way he advocates.

 

Every coach has an "ideal" model in terms of preference, but I think the best coaches adapt their ideology to fit the students tendencies and needs. Foley advocates a "centered" pivot that stacks and rotates around left pivot point. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear how he communicates this ideology to his Tour level players to see how he adapts to the player's idiosyncrasies.

[musclefront]

Rose missed his first 20 something cuts. Wolff won in his what, 5th start? That’s pretty good but give the kid a chance he’s a rookie

[grm24]

> @LICC said:

> > @grm24 said:

> > > @pinhigh27 said:

> > > > @grm24 said:

> > > > > @Kevinnz said:

> > > > > Champ should give GG a call

> > > >

> > > > Why? So he could be T76 in a 78 player field like Wolff is this week going 73/78/78?

> > >

> > > what a stupid comment.

> >

> > It's no more stupid than people saying Champ should leave Foley for whatever reason they find convenient. Especially when the reason is that they hate Foley for some dumbazz reason. Foley has been Champs coach for a long time and has done well with him. Champ seems to have no issue with it. It's as dumb as all the people continually saying Tiger should go back to Butch.

>

> Has Champ done well? Or as well as he could be doing?

 

Just saw this reply. Since Champ earned his PGA Tour card he has 2 PGA Tour wins in a bit over his first 30 starts while dealing with some injuries. Not many other players have done that. He was over hyped because of the distance he hit the ball not because he was going to be a world beater on tour. His amateur career never ever hinted at that. Once he won quickly the golf media that's always looking for the next big thing took off on him and ran with Champ. That's not Champs fault. When he got his tour card he started well performance wise then fell off. Like many others before him.

 

There is always going to be some well regarded player that strikes hot and then soon disappears. Other than Matthew Wolff's quick success where are all the other GG success stories on the PGA Tour? Or BK Tour? Wake me when GG has more tour success with his current players than Foley does. It's going to be a while. Too many people react to the moment than let things play out. Amateur golf has always been littered with the next big thing from a certain player or a certain instructor. Actual history hasn't been kind to either.

[BB28403]

Odds are that champions are rare. So a coach failing to make one, well that is the very safe bet.

[Jamesng2003]

I think he would be better off without Foley, Champ is an amazing talent and he needs to work with a coach that can help him take advantage of it and get into the winners circle.

[Kevinnz]

Came across a tigers practising session video clip last night, in 2012, foley was still his coach. Tiger was hitting his usual 8 iron over and over, I felt gutted watching how foley had to constantly remind tiger of his hand path and alter his hands low point. For someone as talented as tiger, why the hxll had foley forces him into what foley saw necessary?

Also read another article this morning, justin rose was ranked as the most underachiever for this decade. Foley, hmmm

[stingerfade]

On 11/6/2019 at 4:13 PM, Kevinnz said:

Came across a tigers practising session video clip last night, in 2012, foley was still his coach. Tiger was hitting his usual 8 iron over and over, I felt gutted watching how foley had to constantly remind tiger of his hand path and alter his hands low point. For someone as talented as tiger, why the hxll had foley forces him into what foley saw necessary?

Also read another article this morning, justin rose was ranked as the most underachiever for this decade. Foley, hmmm

Foley is very very full of himself. Just read his pretentious IG account. Comes across as a twaat

Edited February 13, 2021 by stingerfade

[Holy Moses]

27 minutes ago, stingerfade said:

Foley is very very full of himself. Just read his pretentious IG account. Comes across as a twaat

Beyond that, the percentage of his students that get injured on the PGA Tour is incredibly high

[FakeClubPro]

Holy crap.   590 yard par five with Cameron Champ on his home course at Woodlands in TX - essentially on in two using a 3 iron for a second shot.   Wow.   Kudos to Bubba for being like a big brother to him on tour.

 

 

[MK7Golf21]

Foley just teaches the “flavor” of the day and tries to sound smart and talk philosophical. Back in 2009 he was teaching his guys stack and tilt, now he has adapted more Gankas stuff. 

Example, now he teaches higher hands to generate speed, whereas in his stack and tilt days it was all about glove under your armpit for connection and lower hands. You could see the change in Justin Roses swing under him. Back in 09/10 Foley changed his swing much flatter, lower hands and bent over more. In the more recent years when he was under Foley, Rose started to stand more upright and he wasn’t as flat, hands got a little higher. Basically going back to where he originally was.

 

Foley is a nice guy it seems but he is a lot of fluff.

[stingerfade]

1 hour ago, Redjeep83 said:

Foley just teaches the “flavor” of the day and tries to sound smart and talk philosophical. Back in 2009 he was teaching his guys stack and tilt, now he has adapted more Gankas stuff. 

Example, now he teaches higher hands to generate speed, whereas in his stack and tilt days it was all about glove under your armpit for connection and lower hands. You could see the change in Justin Roses swing under him. Back in 09/10 Foley changed his swing much flatter, lower hands and bent over more. In the more recent years when he was under Foley, Rose started to stand more upright and he wasn’t as flat, hands got a little higher. Basically going back to where he originally was.

 

Foley is a nice guy it seems but he is a lot of fluff.

Smart people don’t try and show you how smart they are all the time. He’s the opposite 

[MK7Golf21]

2 hours ago, stingerfade said:

Smart people don’t try and show you how smart they are all the time. He’s the opposite 

Yea and I noticed this from him once he got an Instagram account and started posting, just seems phony.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Redjeep83

[GolfTurkey]

His grooming style and way of expressing himself aren’t my first choice, but he gets results with some people.

 

Lydia Ko was pretty much lost after bouncing from instructor to instructor when she went to Foley. Her swing now looks like a prototype modem swing and she has gained a lot of speed.
 

I would be surprised if she doesn’t have a great 2021 and keeps improving as she nails down the new move.

[stingerfade]

3 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

His grooming style and way of expressing himself aren’t my first choice, but he gets results with some people.

 

Lydia Ko was pretty much lost after bouncing from instructor to instructor when she went to Foley. Her swing now looks like a prototype modem swing and she has gained a lot of speed.
 

I would be surprised if she doesn’t have a great 2021 and keeps improving as she nails down the new move.

I hope he doesn’t ruin her. Her original swing was so good, to me she kind of looks back to that 

[ProjectX_Mizuno]

Is Champ still working with Foley?

[jimecherry]

18 minutes ago, ProjectX_Mizuno said:

Is Champ still working with Foley?

dont know he's definitely swinging a lot easier than he used to though.