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The ball doesn't matter as much as we think it does


Justsomeguy
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Crazy right?

I was buying some unnecessary junk off of Amazon the other day. Saw an add-on offer for a dozen used Nxt balls for like $3. Impossible to say no.

So I said yes with very low expectations. They arrived and I realized they were even older than expected. We're talking pre- when they split to tour and tour s. They had some called extreme. There were some even older.

Long story short, I walked the course tonight with just a 6 iron and 3 disposable balls in my pocket, and these ten year old used balls flat out performed.

Distance was good, launch was good, spin on the green was good.

Each ball cost about a quarter.

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On Thursdays after work I go out to the course and practice. Will usually hit 2 - 3 balls a shot all the way to the green then take the balls off and practice chipping. I will typically use older balls that I have either found or just took out of play. Anyway it doesn't matter if it's a Pro V, Bridgestone E6, Callaway supersoft or Titleist Velocity, they are all usually within 10 yards MAX of each other. And for reference my swing speed averages 95 with a Driver.

 

To me the only time a ball matters is hitting into the green.

DRIVER -    Taylor Made Sim 2 - 9* | 🔥🔥KHT AUTOFLEX SF505🔥🔥
3 WD -        PXG Gen 4  13* |  🔥🔥KHT AUTOFLEX SF505🔥🔥

HYBRIDS- PXG Gen 2 -  2/3/4 | Accra Tour 100i Stiff
IRONS -       PXG Gen 4 -  0311XP 5 - GW | Mitsubishi MMT 80 Stiff
WEDGES -  Ping Stealth Glide 2.0 54-12 / 58-06 Wedges | Wedge Flex
GRIPS -       JUMBOMAX XL ULTRALIGHT grips on ALL 
PUTTER -   PXG ☠️One and Done☠️
BAG -           PXG Staff Bag
BALLS -       Bridgestone BXS / Pro V1

 

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While we are at it I've seen cross field break par with a $100 box set, nicklaus win majors with a ball that probably wasnt even round, and bubba break par with just one club. Forget costco we should all sell all of our equipment, head to the nearest walmart, and get some of those sweet pink nitro balls a driver 7iron and putter and take all the money we've saved and go play pebble twice a year! Hell why stop at golf? we could all drive geo metros, live in studio apartments, with candles instead of lights, fornicate for only reproductive purposes...

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> @SEP1006 said:

> On Thursdays after work I go out to the course and practice. Will usually hit 2 - 3 balls a shot all the way to the green then take the balls off and practice chipping. I will typically use older balls that I have either found or just took out of play. Anyway it doesn't matter if it's a Pro V, Bridgestone E6, Callaway supersoft or Titleist Velocity, they are all usually within 10 yards MAX of each other. And for reference my swing speed averages 95 with a Driver.

>

> To me the only time a ball matters is hitting into the green.

 

If your swing off the tee with driver has high-ish sidespin numbers, some balls will react differently than others. So, to others, not you, if you find yourself in the trees a lot because of a side-spin, tour level balls really shouldn't be in your bag until you can "fix" your swing. Softish non-tour balls will help keep the ball in play a bit more.

 

--kC

Callaway Mavrik 9* Fujikura Pro2.0 6.5 / Callaway Rogue 3W / Srixon ZX5 Irons (4-PW) / Vokey SM8 50*, 56*, Callaway, 64*, Balls by Snell.

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> @AFcelica said:

> While we are at it I've seen cross field break par with a $100 box set, nicklaus win majors with a ball that probably wasnt even round, and bubba break par with just one club. Forget costco we should all sell all of our equipment, head to the nearest walmart, and get some of those sweet pink nitro balls a driver 7iron and putter and take all the money we've saved and go play pebble twice a year! **** why stop at golf? we could all drive geo metros, live in studio apartments, with candles instead of lights, fornicate for only reproductive purposes...

 

Love it lol. Esp the Geo Metro. An ex gf had one. 3 cylinder. Somehow clipped off a side mirror once and we screwed in an Autozone generic in its place. Looked hilariously bad.

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I tend to stay away from the high dollar balls. First because I usually lose a few each round and second because I am not at a point where I feel a better ball will significantly improve my game. I do notice some difference between balls when I try a new type/brand/feel, but in the end, I think game improvement starts with my swing and course management. My buddy, who is a low handicap actually said to me that he’s now playing XX brand balls because they are $15 a dozen instead of the $30-40/dozen balls that he used to play because they are just as good. I was actually playing the same ones and I paid $12 for 18 at Walmart.

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I tend to agree that the differences in performance between golf balls is marginal, what is valuable in my opinion is knowing how your particular ball will react. Assuming reasonable quality, as long as I know what to expect from a particular ball based on a lot playing experience with it then it really boils down to preference beyond that.

Ping G400 Max 9 Aldila Rogue Silver 70x
Cobra King Speedzone 3F Tensei Blue 65s

TaylorMade V-Steel 7W GD Purple Ice 85s

TaylorMade M4 4 Iron Atmos 6S

Callaway Apex CF16 4-9

Callaway Apex Pro PW

Ping Glide 2.0 50/12 SS

Callaway MD4 56/8 C-Grind
Odyssey Stroke Lab Triple-Track 2-Ball

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This discussion makes me think of the surlyn vs urethane thread. There are quite a few players who are convinced the added spin of a urethane ball is a must. I have beaten plenty of them over the last 4 years with my 3 piece surlyn ball. But until you honestly evaluate what each ball does for your game and check the scores with it, the marketing guys will win.

As for cars, I once had a '74 green on green Duster. I tried to go second date with that thing with a woman I had just met. The first date was my small pickup which I sold to get rid of the car payments - hence the Duster. Well, she saw this car and would barely get in it. Needless to say it did not end well...

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Depending on the situation I either disagree or I disagree quite a lot. Ball performance may be marginal on driver between any given ball, but on irons for me it made a huge difference, with it then returning back down to marginally different on full wedges. For chipping, strike was much more important than ball. But, this was between like ProV1X, CSX and TP5x. If I had been testing a Supersoft in the mix, then I'd 100% see changes in performance on all wedge shots and probably an even bigger different on irons.

 

Look how much more CSX can spin than TP5x or XV. These spin rates are off a mat and thus may not be real world, but the relative differences are valid. If you look at my two best strikes out of the whole group, the CXS spun at 5200rpm and carried 189. The same quality strike with TP5x produced a 196 yard carry with 1400 rpm less pin. Imagine now you have a back flag sitting at 190-ish. If ball doesn't matter and you had both balls in your pocket, one could fly the green (or hit once then roll way off) and the other could be a great shot. To me, it seemed to matter.

 

wpctwxjmfwfi.png

tvna7tg53w80.png

c2mchr4k7nwv.png

 

 

 

 

Ping G410+ 9*| Ventus Red 7x

Ping G410 3w | Fuji Pro 2.0 TS 8x

Ping G410 3h 19* | Ventus Blue 9x

T200/T100 Combo | PX LZ 6.5

SM8 46* | PX LZ 6.5

Glide 3.0 50*, 54*, 58* | S400 TI

 

 

 

 

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From a psychological point of view, I think the ball is terribly important to your game, but only from the standpoint of the theory that you should play the same ball ALL THE TIME. During the last few weeks, I've been experimenting with a ball change and it definitely impacted my game negatively. Shots with the driver seem to be the less impactful. However, with irons and especially with the putter, the difference can be significant.

 

I should add that since I'm not a long hitter and a senior golfer, I notice subtle changes in my equipment, whether it's clubs or balls. I play with some guys who are longer hitters and they don't seem to be affected by a ball change. I try to eliminate changes to my equipment as much as possible so that I can concentrate on swing characteristics and how they are affecting my game. If I have to factor in a ball change or equipment change, it makes it much harder to determine why my shot didn't reach the green or why it went flying past the hole off my putter. Maybe I'm much more sensitive to the feel of my clubs and the ball than others, but I find the differences in balls to be very discernible.

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I don't think it matters as much as most people think. I've shot in the 70s and 90s with a tour ball and a two-piece distance ball. As others have mentioned, there is very little difference off the driver and a big difference on partial wedges/short game (at least how the ball behaves. Whether and how much it impacts score is up for debate). My personal view is that a lot of moderate speed players (< 100 mph with driver) could benefit from the higher trajectory of some of thee surlyn balls off the irons (granted they do spin a bit less), although this entails changing the balls characteristics around the green.

 

Whatever difference there is in ball and its impact on score is likely well below the normal variance of most golfers scores. Playing a certain type of ball may lower the average score slightly. Playing a ball consistently is probably most important.

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> @Z1ggy16 said:

> Depending on the situation I either disagree or I disagree quite a lot. Ball performance may be marginal on driver between any given ball, but on irons for me it made a huge difference, with it then returning back down to marginally different on full wedges. For chipping, strike was much more important than ball. But, this was between like ProV1X, CSX and TP5x. If I had been testing a Supersoft in the mix, then I'd 100% see changes in performance on all wedge shots and probably an even bigger different on irons.

>

> Look how much more CSX can spin than TP5x or XV. These spin rates are off a mat and thus may not be real world, but the relative differences are valid. If you look at my two best strikes out of the whole group, the CXS spun at 5200rpm and carried 189. The same quality strike with TP5x produced a 196 yard carry with 1400 rpm less pin. Imagine now you have a back flag sitting at 190-ish. If ball doesn't matter and you had both balls in your pocket, one could fly the green (or hit once then roll way off) and the other could be a great shot. To me, it seemed to matter.

>

> wpctwxjmfwfi.png

> tvna7tg53w80.png

> c2mchr4k7nwv.png

>

>

>

>

 

Did u feel like strike quality was the same?

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> @Justsomeguy said:

> > @AFcelica said:

> > While we are at it I've seen cross field break par with a $100 box set, nicklaus win majors with a ball that probably wasnt even round, and bubba break par with just one club. Forget costco we should all sell all of our equipment, head to the nearest walmart, and get some of those sweet pink nitro balls a driver 7iron and putter and take all the money we've saved and go play pebble twice a year! **** why stop at golf? we could all drive geo metros, live in studio apartments, with candles instead of lights, fornicate for only reproductive purposes...

>

> Love it lol. Esp the Geo Metro. An ex gf had one. 3 cylinder. Somehow clipped off a side mirror once and we screwed in an Autozone generic in its place. Looked hilariously bad.

 

How did you have enough room to do it in a metro lol?

 

In all seriousness it depends. Comparing a prov1 vs a chrome soft vs a tp5 sure probably not a lot of difference. But compare a low spin avx to a super spinny cut ball and there is a massive difference. Of course you can shoot a good score with a velocity or a prov1 for example but they certainly wont play the same. The longer the club being used the more similarly they will play, inside 100 yards is where you'll see the biggest differences. For me the velocity is a good club longer off the irons than a prov1x and rolls out much more on chips and pitches

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Before playing a urethane ball, I bought the cheapest ball. Which at the time, I didn't even know about how a urethane ball spins on the green. My only criteria was that I preferred a softer ball. At that point, I had no thoughts about the ball. I didn't observe how the ball checks up or rolls through a green. There's something good about that.

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I never notice much difference between different balls other than maybe on approach shot spin. I prefer a urethane cover and something softish, but beyond that it's unimportant which ball I use. To put this into perspective I've been a mid-high single digit handicapper for decades and have played just about every ball imagianable. I'll often put some ball I find on the course into play just for kicks and most of these experiences have been excellent. I had a great run with a Pokerface ball I found for example and since that time I've been on the lookout for more of them on the course. These balls are sold by the proshop, kept in a fish bowl and sold for $1.23 each. People that say the ball makes such a huge difference must be way better than me or they have a big imagination.

Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver 60S
Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 4 wood w/Aldila Rogue Black 70S
Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 Hybrid w/Aldila Kuro Kage 80S
Ping G410 irons w/Recoil 95S
Ping Glide 55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110S
Ping Anser - the "real deal!"

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Well, let's see. I can play Twinkle Twinkle very well, however Little Buttercup needs more practice. But i love to sit on the bench and tinkle the ivories for hours a day.

Do you think i should invest in a Steinway, Bosendorfer or will a Yamaha do for me?

 

And by the way, which golf ball for me? I can shoot between 95 and 105 nearly every day.

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> @uitar9 said:

> I picked up some rbz balls last week and used them this past Sunday. Felt great. The only knock was they seemed to spin out a lot more on +100 approach shots, which ran out a lot more than the Wilson duo softs I was playing.

 

I came back to golf after five years with a hoard of rbz urethane... solid golf balls for sure.

 

 

As of  10/11/2021

9 Callaway Mavrk Sub Zero with Ventus Black 7X

13 Degree Srixon 3 wood Project X Black 6.5

19 Degree Sub70 939 Pro with Proforce V2

4 Utility Sub70 699u 22 degree Proforce V2

5-GW Srixon Zx5 with Project X 6.5

Sub70 286 54

Sub70 JB Low Bounce 58

SeeMore milled Tri-Mallet fit and built at SeeMore 

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> @Justsomeguy said:

> > @Z1ggy16 said:

> > Depending on the situation I either disagree or I disagree quite a lot. Ball performance may be marginal on driver between any given ball, but on irons for me it made a huge difference, with it then returning back down to marginally different on full wedges. For chipping, strike was much more important than ball. But, this was between like ProV1X, CSX and TP5x. If I had been testing a Supersoft in the mix, then I'd 100% see changes in performance on all wedge shots and probably an even bigger different on irons.

> >

> > Look how much more CSX can spin than TP5x or XV. These spin rates are off a mat and thus may not be real world, but the relative differences are valid. If you look at my two best strikes out of the whole group, the CXS spun at 5200rpm and carried 189. The same quality strike with TP5x produced a 196 yard carry with 1400 rpm less pin. Imagine now you have a back flag sitting at 190-ish. If ball doesn't matter and you had both balls in your pocket, one could fly the green (or hit once then roll way off) and the other could be a great shot. To me, it seemed to matter.

> >

> > wpctwxjmfwfi.png

> > tvna7tg53w80.png

> > c2mchr4k7nwv.png

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Did u feel like strike quality was the same?

 

Very close in quality. Efficiency of 1.35 vs 1.34. One was a little bit off the toe while the other was just heel of center, but the swing speed and ball speed was virtually the same. Since gearing isn't a big influence on irons, I can pretty much say the strikes were equivalent.

 

I think my main stance would be that ball matters mostly in the fact that you should just play the same ball, every single shot. The ball itself only matters when applied to the individual - meaning the right ball for me might not be the right one for you. If one says ball doesn't matter, then that makes me think you could just go to the course with a random assortment of balls and play a different one whenever the occasion called for it. My data shows that's probably a pretty bad idea, especially when it comes to your irons.

 

As long as you know the distances your ball is going and how it will fly, you can adjust to any kind of spin model. It's a matter of keeping that model the same for each and every shot.

Ping G410+ 9*| Ventus Red 7x

Ping G410 3w | Fuji Pro 2.0 TS 8x

Ping G410 3h 19* | Ventus Blue 9x

T200/T100 Combo | PX LZ 6.5

SM8 46* | PX LZ 6.5

Glide 3.0 50*, 54*, 58* | S400 TI

 

 

 

 

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As some of the posters have said it matters if you play the same type or close to the same type of ball. But if you start with a PROV1 and hit it in the water then drop a Slazenger you will notice the difference. This is where it matters. Playing the same type of ball consistently will lead to mare consistency. JMO



Callaway Rogue/Epic depending on my mood

Callaway Epic 3 wood

Callaway Rogue 5 wood

Cobra F6 hybrids, 3-4 and 4-5

Cobra F6 irons 6i -PW, GW

Harry Taylor 54* and 58* wedges

Odyssey "O" Works 2 ball, Super Stroke mid slim 2.0 grip



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IMHO, I believe it comes down to quality control. The thread a while back showed some balls had an out of center interior.. I guess if it's cheap and you loose it on a bad shot it could either be your swing or your ball.. With a $4 ball it's more than likely your swing..

 

The only times that I have broken 80 have been with cheap balls in the winter,, so...

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I agree with the OP - a ball is just a ball for my level of golf prowess. I selected the Callaway Supersoft about three seasons ago down only to its 27.99 CAD price and cuz it came in yellow.

I have grown accustomed to playing it so when I'm not playing it I feel slightly out of sorts. I can't repeat my swing so trajectory, distance, spin etc has nothing to do with the type of ball I'm using. If I hit it good it flies like when I hit it good - I know from the feel as soon as it contacts the face what's likely to happen to my shot.

 

I still have a level of ball snobery, as in I will leave behind any ball I find that isn't equal to or better than the one I'm using. Top Flites and Noodles are always picked up and thrown into nearby water hazards immediately!

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> @zebra2955 said:

> As some of the posters have said it matters if you play the same type or close to the same type of ball. But if you start with a PROV1 and hit it in the water then drop a Slazenger you will notice the difference. This is where it matters. Playing the same type of ball consistently will lead to mare consistency. JMO

 

It's important to be honest with ourselves. I suspect that a person could FEEL the difference between the ProV1 and a cheap Slazenger, but unless you are a low single digit handicapper or better the ball won't affect your score much if at all.

Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver 60S
Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 4 wood w/Aldila Rogue Black 70S
Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 Hybrid w/Aldila Kuro Kage 80S
Ping G410 irons w/Recoil 95S
Ping Glide 55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110S
Ping Anser - the "real deal!"

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> @Nessism said:

> > @zebra2955 said:

> > As some of the posters have said it matters if you play the same type or close to the same type of ball. But if you start with a PROV1 and hit it in the water then drop a Slazenger you will notice the difference. This is where it matters. Playing the same type of ball consistently will lead to mare consistency. JMO

>

> It's important to be honest with ourselves. I suspect that a person could FEEL the difference between the ProV1 and a cheap Slazenger, but unless you are a low single digit handicapper or better the ball won't affect your score much if at all.

 

Very much this. Besides the maybe one or 2 shots a round or every other round where you get into a bad spot where the spin of a premium urethane ball could help hold a green where the distance rock would almost assuredly not hold the green or force you to take a much safer line... one caveat, if you play a course with firm greens and/or like to spin your chips and pitches you'll notice much more difference than someone who plays softer greens and/or prefers to use trajectory to stop the ball

 

Also its interesting that the difference between a slazenger and a prov1 would, on a launch monitor, have a much much bigger effect than any other equipment change yet still wouldn't make a huge impact on your game

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> @AFcelica said:

> > @Nessism said:

> > > @zebra2955 said:

> > > As some of the posters have said it matters if you play the same type or close to the same type of ball. But if you start with a PROV1 and hit it in the water then drop a Slazenger you will notice the difference. This is where it matters. Playing the same type of ball consistently will lead to mare consistency. JMO

> >

> > It's important to be honest with ourselves. I suspect that a person could FEEL the difference between the ProV1 and a cheap Slazenger, but unless you are a low single digit handicapper or better the ball won't affect your score much if at all.

>

> Very much this. Besides the maybe one or 2 shots a round or every other round where you get into a bad spot where the spin of a premium urethane ball could help hold a green where the distance rock would almost assuredly not hold the green or force you to take a much safer line... one caveat, if you play a course with firm greens and/or like to spin your chips and pitches you'll notice much more difference than someone who plays softer greens and/or prefers to use trajectory to stop the ball

>

> Also its interesting that the difference between a slazenger and a prov1 would, on a launch monitor, have a much much bigger effect than any other equipment change yet still wouldn't make a huge impact on your game

 

Funny thing... my swing, my irons/wedges, I have a high trajectory. Not mid, not low. The only time I usually roll off the back of a green, is if I'm 4i, or lower loft. 5i and greater, I'm sending in high-arcs. Holding a green in my case is usually 95% trajectory and less ball spin/cover. You'll hear me whistle (quietly to myself) like a bomb dropping quite a bit. LOL

 

--kC

Callaway Mavrik 9* Fujikura Pro2.0 6.5 / Callaway Rogue 3W / Srixon ZX5 Irons (4-PW) / Vokey SM8 50*, 56*, Callaway, 64*, Balls by Snell.

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      Keegan Bradley - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
       
       
       
      Gary Woodland's new Cameron putter - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
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      • 6 replies
    • 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open WITB Photos- Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here...
       
      Links:
       
      Harry Higgs - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Ian Poulter - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Harry Higgs - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Matt NeSmith - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Doug Ghim - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      New Cameron Las Vegas covers - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      New Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX shafts - 2021 Shriners Hospitals doe Children Open
       
       

       
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      • 15 replies

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