Country Club of St Albans - St Louis MO

[stlouismark]

Playing Tavern Creek next weekend. I’ve heard Lewis & Clark is way better, like not even close. Am I making a huge mistake here???

[mci711]

> @stlouismark said:

> Playing Tavern Creek next weekend. I’ve heard Lewis & Clark is way better, like not even close. Am I making a huge mistake here???

 

They are both good, one isn't way better than the other. I actually prefer Tavern Creek. I'd put both courses over any other private in the area other than Boone Valley, Old Warson and St Louis CC (best by far). Not making a mistake at all though, can't miss with either.

[Bigarch]

You're ok. Both golf courses are great...just different. Fantastic place!

[jmill88]

I've played there 3 times and they have put us on Lewis & Clark every time. Not sure why. I'm sure you will enjoy it though. Have fun.

[stlouismark]

Played Tavern Creek and it was incredible. Beautiful course. I'm curious if St. Albans is struggling financially? I know the real estate at St. Albans is struggling......they are beautiful homes but sellers are taking big haircuts typically.

 

I know the club got bailed out several years ago by the original developer. Since then they've done some major renovations. Now Kemper Sports manages the club. Anecdotally, the parking lot was full and there seemed to be a lot of folks playing.

[Lefty_3Jack]

I've been a member here for a year, lived here since 2015 and have been around the club prior to it opening. My dad worked at Cherry Hills and transferred over in 1992 and was there till 2006. I worked there throughout high school and it's been like a second home to me most all my life. A lot of my childhood memories are of going there at night with my dad to fix something or to take down a dance floor. I still remember going there when the building wasn't finished. I bought sandwiches from Mae Head, not the store, the actual old lady. I had to because the work lunch food (help fuel) sucked!

 

The guy you spoke of bailing the facility out is inaccurate from what I understand talking to others in the area. He had a loan to the club and at the advice of his financial people recalled that loan in the late 2000's because of the great recession. At that time the club also had a bit of a "run on the bank" effect where they lost a lot of members all at once and since it was an equity membership there were lots of people looking for their equity checks all at once. I believe they had to settle with some in the form of free golf rounds which were then sold on Ebay as i know a few who purchased them.

 

Prior to buying our home there I asked the same question as I was concerned and the house is on Tavern Creek. Should the course go down my house is automatically worth a lot less right? From everything I have seen being a member the club is fine financially. We did have massive damage to almost every bunker on both courses in August as well as damage to cart paths and the bridge on TC 18 which was just finished! The repairs are mostly done and the bridge looks like it'll be done in a few months to complete this.

 

From when I worked there in the late 90's and early 2000's the club membership total is not what it once was. This is unrealistic as country clubs aren't as robust as they once were. When I was around here as a kid they had formal dining open every night as well as casual dining every night. It was a huge operation for a country club, especially given the location. I quickly learned after being around other clubs that this was not the norm for country clubs and what it is now is more accurate as far as the scale of operations.

 

We had Bob Rotella there two weeks ago and it was really cool getting to listen to him and ask some questions. The pro shop operation has to be second to none as the head pro Joe Schwent is constantly being honored within his field. I think having two courses, uniquely different courses, two sided range, short game area, large putting green and a chipping green make the facility an excellent place to get better at your game. And if you ever went into the bathrooms at the halfway house by the range, they're nicer than most peoples houses! I'm a little biased as my uncle did the work.

 

Regarding the home costs. The home costs were likely inflated. I purchased in 2015 and what i paid vs what the seller paid in 2006 was about 29% less. I also had to remodel 2400 sq ft up top and I'm still working on redoing the basement. The homes getting close to 20 years old and many of them while timeless on the exterior, are showing their connection to the 90's really badly now (think green carpet and old brass finishes). Add in that Washington is the school district despite Lafayette, Eureka and Pacific all being closer, safer destinations and that is a snapshot as to why the real estate has been "down". Our home has been appraised back much closer to what the seller purchased it for in 2006 and a neighbor who bought theirs for around $500K in 2016 is already selling his for $625K so not all is bad. The larger, more expensive outdated homes are definitely going to take a hit as remodeling 5K, 8K sq foot homes requires TONS of cash.

 

Sorry for the long post, but wanted to respond to you! I'm glad you enjoyed the course. If you enjoyed it at this time, you'd love it in the summer and after the bunkers and bridge repairs were completed.

[gfranktw7]

On 11/15/2019 at 10:35 AM, Lefty_3Jack said:

I've been a member here for a year, lived here since 2015 and have been around the club prior to it opening. My dad worked at Cherry Hills and transferred over in 1992 and was there till 2006. I worked there throughout high school and it's been like a second home to me most all my life. A lot of my childhood memories are of going there at night with my dad to fix something or to take down a dance floor. I still remember going there when the building wasn't finished. I bought sandwiches from Mae Head, not the store, the actual old lady. I had to because the work lunch food (help fuel) sucked!

 

The guy you spoke of bailing the facility out is inaccurate from what I understand talking to others in the area. He had a loan to the club and at the advice of his financial people recalled that loan in the late 2000's because of the great recession. At that time the club also had a bit of a "run on the bank" effect where they lost a lot of members all at once and since it was an equity membership there were lots of people looking for their equity checks all at once. I believe they had to settle with some in the form of free golf rounds which were then sold on Ebay as i know a few who purchased them.

 

Prior to buying our home there I asked the same question as I was concerned and the house is on Tavern Creek. Should the course go down my house is automatically worth a lot less right? From everything I have seen being a member the club is fine financially. We did have massive damage to almost every bunker on both courses in August as well as damage to cart paths and the bridge on TC 18 which was just finished! The repairs are mostly done and the bridge looks like it'll be done in a few months to complete this.

 

From when I worked there in the late 90's and early 2000's the club membership total is not what it once was. This is unrealistic as country clubs aren't as robust as they once were. When I was around here as a kid they had formal dining open every night as well as casual dining every night. It was a huge operation for a country club, especially given the location. I quickly learned after being around other clubs that this was not the norm for country clubs and what it is now is more accurate as far as the scale of operations.

 

We had Bob Rotella there two weeks ago and it was really cool getting to listen to him and ask some questions. The pro shop operation has to be second to none as the head pro Joe Schwent is constantly being honored within his field. I think having two courses, uniquely different courses, two sided range, short game area, large putting green and a chipping green make the facility an excellent place to get better at your game. And if you ever went into the bathrooms at the halfway house by the range, they're nicer than most peoples houses! I'm a little biased as my uncle did the work.

 

Regarding the home costs. The home costs were likely inflated. I purchased in 2015 and what i paid vs what the seller paid in 2006 was about 29% less. I also had to remodel 2400 sq ft up top and I'm still working on redoing the basement. The homes getting close to 20 years old and many of them while timeless on the exterior, are showing their connection to the 90's really badly now (think green carpet and old brass finishes). Add in that Washington is the school district despite Lafayette, Eureka and Pacific all being closer, safer destinations and that is a snapshot as to why the real estate has been "down". Our home has been appraised back much closer to what the seller purchased it for in 2006 and a neighbor who bought theirs for around $500K in 2016 is already selling his for $625K so not all is bad. The larger, more expensive outdated homes are definitely going to take a hit as remodeling 5K, 8K sq foot homes requires TONS of cash.

 

Sorry for the long post, but wanted to respond to you! I'm glad you enjoyed the course. If you enjoyed it at this time, you'd love it in the summer and after the bunkers and bridge repairs were completed.

Any insight on dues or current membership? I may be looking to move closer the the area in a year and I am exploring my options as it draws closer.  Didn't know if you had any smaller insight before I reached out to someone.

[mci711]

45 minutes ago, gfranktw7 said:

Any insight on dues or current membership? I may be looking to move closer the the area in a year and I am exploring my options as it draws closer.  Didn't know if you had any smaller insight before I reached out to someone.

 

Not sure how old you are but my wife and I may be joining and got this info - this is pre covid info (we are moving to St Louis in 2021), so it may have changed or may be completely irrelevant to you if you depending on your age. 

 

[gfranktw7]

23 hours ago, mci711 said:

 

Not sure how old you are but my wife and I may be joining and got this info - this is pre covid info (we are moving to St Louis in 2021), so it may have changed or may be completely irrelevant to you if you depending on your age. 

 

Excellent.  I fall in that age group.  This is very helpful.  Thank you so much. My fiance rents in Ballwin now, but I live on the other side of the state.  When we get married, we need to find a spot to have zoning for her horse and I am trying to keep my golf interests near and I am crunching hypothetical numbers, hAHA.  Once again, thanks a bunch.