..

[clevited]

> @kolomoia said:

> Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

>

 

Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

 

From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

 

Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

 

Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

[LICC]

> @clevited said:

> > @kolomoia said:

> > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> >

>

> Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

>

> From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

>

> Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

>

> Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

 

None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

[clevited]

> @LICC said:

> > @clevited said:

> > > @kolomoia said:

> > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > >

> >

> > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> >

> > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> >

> > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> >

> > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

>

> None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

 

https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

 

 

 

Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

 

Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

 

I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

 

[LICC]

> @clevited said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @clevited said:

> > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > >

> > >

> > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > >

> > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > >

> > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > >

> > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> >

> > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

>

> https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

>

>

>

>

> Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

>

> Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

>

> I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

>

 

Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

[clevited]

> @LICC said:

> > @clevited said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > >

> > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > >

> > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > >

> > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > >

> > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> >

> > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> >

> > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> >

> > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> >

>

> Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

 

I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

 

1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

 

I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

 

[LICC]

> @clevited said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @clevited said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > >

> > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > >

> > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > >

> > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > >

> > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > >

> > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > >

> > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > >

> > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > >

> >

> > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

>

> I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

>

> 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

>

> I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

>

 

1- No, I do not believe that.

2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

3- N/A. I used to train and compete in martial arts tournaments. I am well aware of training that can help somewhat increase hand speed, for example. Marginal improvements are possible although natural ability is the major factor.

4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

 

I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

[Rosco1216]

> @LICC said:

> > @clevited said:

> > > @kolomoia said:

> > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > >

> >

> > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> >

> > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> >

> > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> >

> > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

>

> None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example. He’s not much stronger from a strength output perspective but I guarantee he can swing as max speed with much less effort and for many, many more reps.

 

I can explain it, it’s simple. Stallings is a prime example of getting fit and being in much better overall health and fitness. He trains for fitness and health. He hasn’t trained to necessarily get longer off the tee. He’s not much more muscular, he simply doesn’t have fat covering up his body like he did before.

 

Tour pros aren’t a good example of strength training to increase distance gains. They play year round for a paycheck and don’t have an extended off season to push their body as hard in the weight room(from a volume and intensity perspective) consistently enough. They practice and walk a ton week in and week out and have to be on top of their game every week.

[clevited]

> @LICC said:

> > @clevited said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > >

> > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > >

> > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > >

> > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > >

> > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> >

> > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> >

> > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> >

> > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> >

>

> 1- No, I do not believe that.

> 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> 3- N/A

> 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

>

> I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

 

No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

 

[clevited]

> @Rosco1216 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @clevited said:

> > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > >

> > >

> > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > >

> > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > >

> > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > >

> > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> >

> > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example. He’s not much stronger from a strength output perspective but I guarantee he can swing as max speed with much less effort and for many, many more reps.

>

> I can explain it, it’s simple. Stallings is a prime example of getting fit and being in much better overall health and fitness. He trains for fitness and health. He hasn’t trained to necessarily get longer off the tee. He’s not much more muscular, he simply doesn’t have fat covering up his body like he did before.

>

> Tour pros aren’t a good example of strength training to increase distance gains. They play year round for a paycheck and don’t have an extended off season to push their body as hard in the weight room(from a volume and intensity perspective) consistently enough. They practice and walk a ton week in and week out and have to be on top of their game every week.

 

I came to the same conclusion when he was mentioned in another thread. There are different kinds of fit. Slimming down isn't necessarily going to do much for you, nor is getting way buff. Purposeful speed training via a specific gym routine and via other exercise methods does work.

[LICC]

> @clevited said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @clevited said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > >

> > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > >

> > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > >

> > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > >

> > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > >

> > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > >

> >

> > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > 3- N/A

> > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> >

> > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

>

> No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

>

 

You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

[GoGoErky]

> @LICC said:

> > @clevited said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > >

> > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > >

> > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > >

> > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > >

> > >

> > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > 3- N/A

> > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > >

> > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> >

> > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> >

>

> You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

 

Glad to see you still don’t accept facts regardless of thread and examples.

[clevited]

> @LICC said:

> > @clevited said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > >

> > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > >

> > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > >

> > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > >

> > >

> > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > 3- N/A

> > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > >

> > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> >

> > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> >

>

> You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

 

No, I gained roughly 10 mph from my swing changes, and over the past years I have gained another 10 or so (it still goes up but has mostly stalled and I am just maintaining it). The only difference between now and then, I am stronger, and noticeably so.

 

I would disagree with you about the bias spin. I have experience, effecting my view. You have no experience, and have bias based on what you want to believe is true. Maybe try to prove your point of view by trying to disprove it. What I mean is, try and find examples of where people did indeed gain speed and distance due to fitness efforts. Worst thing that can happen is you change your mind? Best thing that can happen, you find more proof for your point of view.

 

 

[LICC]

> @clevited said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @clevited said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > >

> > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > 3- N/A

> > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > >

> > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > >

> > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > >

> >

> > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

>

> No, I gained roughly 10 mph from my swing changes, and over the past years I have gained another 10 or so (it still goes up but has mostly stalled and I am just maintaining it). The only difference between now and then, I am stronger, and noticeably so.

>

> I would disagree with you about the bias spin. I have experience, effecting my view. You have no experience, and have bias based on what you want to believe is true. Maybe try to prove your point of view by trying to disprove it. What I mean is, try and find examples of where people did indeed gain speed and distance due to fitness efforts. Worst thing that can happen is you change your mind? Best thing that can happen, you find more proof for your point of view.

>

>

 

10mph amounts to 30 yards or so. You did not add 30 yards from fitness training. Stop with this.

[Rosco1216]

> @LICC said:

> > @clevited said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > >

> > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > >

> > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > >

> > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > >

> > >

> > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > 3- N/A

> > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > >

> > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> >

> > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> >

>

> You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

 

LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

[LICC]

> @Rosco1216 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @clevited said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > >

> > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > 3- N/A

> > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > >

> > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > >

> > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > >

> >

> > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

>

> LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

 

Can you link to the other thread? I'll be happy to read it.

[clevited]

> @LICC said:

 

> 10mph amounts to 30 yards are so. You did not add 30 yards from fitness training. Stop with this.

 

Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't true. Try it maybe?

[Krt22]

> @LICC said:

> > @clevited said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > >

> > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > >

> > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > >

> > >

> > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> >

> > No, I gained roughly 10 mph from my swing changes, and over the past years I have gained another 10 or so (it still goes up but has mostly stalled and I am just maintaining it). The only difference between now and then, I am stronger, and noticeably so.

> >

> > I would disagree with you about the bias spin. I have experience, effecting my view. You have no experience, and have bias based on what you want to believe is true. Maybe try to prove your point of view by trying to disprove it. What I mean is, try and find examples of where people did indeed gain speed and distance due to fitness efforts. Worst thing that can happen is you change your mind? Best thing that can happen, you find more proof for your point of view.

> >

> >

>

> 10mph amounts to 30 yards or so. You did not add 30 yards from fitness training. Stop with this.

 

Lol, how can you say that when you know nothing about him, his fitness level, or his swing. Give me a break

[LICC]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @clevited said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > >

> > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > >

> > > No, I gained roughly 10 mph from my swing changes, and over the past years I have gained another 10 or so (it still goes up but has mostly stalled and I am just maintaining it). The only difference between now and then, I am stronger, and noticeably so.

> > >

> > > I would disagree with you about the bias spin. I have experience, effecting my view. You have no experience, and have bias based on what you want to believe is true. Maybe try to prove your point of view by trying to disprove it. What I mean is, try and find examples of where people did indeed gain speed and distance due to fitness efforts. Worst thing that can happen is you change your mind? Best thing that can happen, you find more proof for your point of view.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > 10mph amounts to 30 yards or so. You did not add 30 yards from fitness training. Stop with this.

>

> Lol, how can you say that when you know nothing about him, his fitness level, or his swing. Give me a break

 

Because it is incompatible with normal human physiology. And this is from the man who said he can regularly CARRY an old persimmon driver 300 yards. That is a pattern of exaggeration.

[Krt22]

> @LICC said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > >

> > > > No, I gained roughly 10 mph from my swing changes, and over the past years I have gained another 10 or so (it still goes up but has mostly stalled and I am just maintaining it). The only difference between now and then, I am stronger, and noticeably so.

> > > >

> > > > I would disagree with you about the bias spin. I have experience, effecting my view. You have no experience, and have bias based on what you want to believe is true. Maybe try to prove your point of view by trying to disprove it. What I mean is, try and find examples of where people did indeed gain speed and distance due to fitness efforts. Worst thing that can happen is you change your mind? Best thing that can happen, you find more proof for your point of view.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > 10mph amounts to 30 yards or so. You did not add 30 yards from fitness training. Stop with this.

> >

> > Lol, how can you say that when you know nothing about him, his fitness level, or his swing. Give me a break

>

> Because it is incompatible with normal human physiology. And this is from the man who said he can regularly CARRY an old persimmon driver 300 yards. That is a pattern of exaggeration.

 

No it is not.

 

See how that works, just about anyone can make a bold statement, regardless of how unsupported it is.

[Rosco1216]

> @LICC said:

> > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > >

> > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > >

> > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > >

> > >

> > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> >

> > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

>

> Can you link to the other thread? I'll be happy to read it.

 

I found it and took a screenshot. To give a little more information in addition to what is said in the screenshot, I was a plus handicap and played high school golf. I graduated highschool at 6’ 165lb, I was strong(bench -280/squat - 385/didn’t really deadlift), lean and could swing it in the upper 110’s. Fast forward now I top out around 133-134chs.

 

[clevited]

> @LICC said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > >

> > > > No, I gained roughly 10 mph from my swing changes, and over the past years I have gained another 10 or so (it still goes up but has mostly stalled and I am just maintaining it). The only difference between now and then, I am stronger, and noticeably so.

> > > >

> > > > I would disagree with you about the bias spin. I have experience, effecting my view. You have no experience, and have bias based on what you want to believe is true. Maybe try to prove your point of view by trying to disprove it. What I mean is, try and find examples of where people did indeed gain speed and distance due to fitness efforts. Worst thing that can happen is you change your mind? Best thing that can happen, you find more proof for your point of view.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > 10mph amounts to 30 yards or so. You did not add 30 yards from fitness training. Stop with this.

> >

> > Lol, how can you say that when you know nothing about him, his fitness level, or his swing. Give me a break

>

> Because it is incompatible with normal human physiology. And this is from the man who said he can regularly CARRY an old persimmon driver 300 yards. That is a pattern of exaggeration.

 

Sorry bud, never said I could regularly carry 300 with a persimmon. I said I could get in a groove and rattle off a few in a row that carry 300 on my LM which was a Skytrak which I used as an example of how the longest pros could likely manage to do that frequently given my skill level (which isn't nearly as good or consistent as a pros). 170s ball speed, 14-16* or so vertical launch angle, low 2ks spin, 1450 ft above sea level. Yeah, about 300 carry on those ones. On a GC2 that might be 320 lol. (humor that only LM owners might get).

 

Btw, that is really hard to do. I had to really work at that and warm up for a long time to make it happen, little jerk of a club and its tiny sweet spot!

[Krt22]

> @Rosco1216 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > >

> > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > >

> > > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

> >

> > Can you link to the other thread? I'll be happy to read it.

>

> I found it and took a screenshot. To give a little more information in addition to what is said in the screenshot, I was a plus handicap and played high school golf. I graduated highschool at 6’ 165lb, I was strong(bench -280/squat - 385/didn’t really deadlift), lean and could swing it in the upper 110’s. Fast forward now I top out around 133-134chs.

>

>

 

No way pal, you just learned to swing better/faster. Anyone can swing it 130 +if they practiced enough. No doubt in my mind.

[Warrior42111]

It's all about efficiency, and muscle can help and even hurt it's all on how it is used. This is why IMO strength is an indirect correlation to distance.

 

Let's get nerdy and assume a perfect environment (removing the coefficients of the grass, improper angles etc). The force use to hit the golf ball is F=ma. The mass of a golf ball is give or take 46g. Acceleration is the difference in velocities over the same time period. so a=(v2-v1)/(t2-t1). for impact we will have a time difference of 0.0005 seconds. and the velocity change is 50 m/s. now we have a=100000m/s^2. Going back to F=ma we now have F=0.046kg x 100000 m/s^2 giving us 4600N.

 

The point of all this above is to show that it is not mass (constant in this case) but acceleration that generates distance. so how do we increase acceleration. First good technique is the biggest factor, without you are not consistently accelerating at max differential at the same time That's all good, but assuming perfect technique how can increase the velocity delta from the above equation. (Since we can't alter space time and edit the contact time of the club on ball).

 

So once again making assumptions, if technique is perfect the only way to increase acceleration is a greater velocity delta. Now if we were to increase strength of the core, wrist, hips, and forearms to the purpose of being able to have a faster hips and body accelerations one can indeed increase the velocity delta, increasing acceleration and therefore more distance, assuming perfect technique.

 

My conclusion is distance is far easier to gain with perfect technique, but can be aided by increased strength.

[GoGoErky]

> @LICC said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > >

> > > > No, I gained roughly 10 mph from my swing changes, and over the past years I have gained another 10 or so (it still goes up but has mostly stalled and I am just maintaining it). The only difference between now and then, I am stronger, and noticeably so.

> > > >

> > > > I would disagree with you about the bias spin. I have experience, effecting my view. You have no experience, and have bias based on what you want to believe is true. Maybe try to prove your point of view by trying to disprove it. What I mean is, try and find examples of where people did indeed gain speed and distance due to fitness efforts. Worst thing that can happen is you change your mind? Best thing that can happen, you find more proof for your point of view.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > 10mph amounts to 30 yards or so. You did not add 30 yards from fitness training. Stop with this.

> >

> > Lol, how can you say that when you know nothing about him, his fitness level, or his swing. Give me a break

>

> Because it is incompatible with normal human physiology. And this is from the man who said he can regularly CARRY an old persimmon driver 300 yards. That is a pattern of exaggeration.

 

Please cite any study that proves your point.

[LICC]

> @clevited said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > >

> > > > > No, I gained roughly 10 mph from my swing changes, and over the past years I have gained another 10 or so (it still goes up but has mostly stalled and I am just maintaining it). The only difference between now and then, I am stronger, and noticeably so.

> > > > >

> > > > > I would disagree with you about the bias spin. I have experience, effecting my view. You have no experience, and have bias based on what you want to believe is true. Maybe try to prove your point of view by trying to disprove it. What I mean is, try and find examples of where people did indeed gain speed and distance due to fitness efforts. Worst thing that can happen is you change your mind? Best thing that can happen, you find more proof for your point of view.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > 10mph amounts to 30 yards or so. You did not add 30 yards from fitness training. Stop with this.

> > >

> > > Lol, how can you say that when you know nothing about him, his fitness level, or his swing. Give me a break

> >

> > Because it is incompatible with normal human physiology. And this is from the man who said he can regularly CARRY an old persimmon driver 300 yards. That is a pattern of exaggeration.

>

> Sorry bud, never said I could regularly carry 300 with a persimmon. I said I could get in a groove and rattle off a few in a row that carry 300 on my LM which was a Skytrak which I used as an example of how the longest pros could likely manage to do that frequently given my skill level (which isn't nearly as good or consistent as a pros). 170s ball speed, 14-16* or so vertical launch angle, low 2ks spin, 1450 ft above sea level. Yeah, about 300 carry on those ones. On a GC2 that might be 320 lol. (humor that only LM owners might get).

>

> Btw, that is really hard to do. I had to really work at that and warm up for a long time to make it happen, little jerk of a club and its tiny sweet spot!

 

Like I said, that means you can carry it farther than most all the Tour pros. Just doesn't sound realistic but maybe you are a freakish athletic talent. If so, your personal experiences are the rare exception.

[LICC]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > >

> > > > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

> > >

> > > Can you link to the other thread? I'll be happy to read it.

> >

> > I found it and took a screenshot. To give a little more information in addition to what is said in the screenshot, I was a plus handicap and played high school golf. I graduated highschool at 6’ 165lb, I was strong(bench -280/squat - 385/didn’t really deadlift), lean and could swing it in the upper 110’s. Fast forward now I top out around 133-134chs.

> >

> >

>

> No way pal, you just learned to swing better/faster. Anyone can swing it 130 +if they practiced enough. No doubt in my mind.

 

Again, you ( @Rosco1216 ) are claiming to have faster clubhead speed than most every Tour pro. It's amazing that we have so many freakishly rare athletes posting on this forum!

[LICC]

> @GoGoErky said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > >

> > > > > No, I gained roughly 10 mph from my swing changes, and over the past years I have gained another 10 or so (it still goes up but has mostly stalled and I am just maintaining it). The only difference between now and then, I am stronger, and noticeably so.

> > > > >

> > > > > I would disagree with you about the bias spin. I have experience, effecting my view. You have no experience, and have bias based on what you want to believe is true. Maybe try to prove your point of view by trying to disprove it. What I mean is, try and find examples of where people did indeed gain speed and distance due to fitness efforts. Worst thing that can happen is you change your mind? Best thing that can happen, you find more proof for your point of view.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > 10mph amounts to 30 yards or so. You did not add 30 yards from fitness training. Stop with this.

> > >

> > > Lol, how can you say that when you know nothing about him, his fitness level, or his swing. Give me a break

> >

> > Because it is incompatible with normal human physiology. And this is from the man who said he can regularly CARRY an old persimmon driver 300 yards. That is a pattern of exaggeration.

>

> Please cite any study that proves your point.

 

Please show verified data of any Tour pro who substantially increased distance by adding fitness training alone.

[clevited]

> @Warrior42111 said:

> It's all about efficiency, and muscle can help and even hurt it's all on how it is used. This is why IMO strength is an indirect correlation to distance.

>

> Let's get nerdy and assume a perfect environment (removing the coefficients of the grass, improper angles etc). The force use to hit the golf ball is F=ma. The mass of a golf ball is give or take 46g. Acceleration is the difference in velocities over the same time period. so a=(v2-v1)/(t2-t1). for impact we will have a time difference of 0.0005 seconds. and the velocity change is 50 m/s. now we have a=100000m/s^2. Going back to F=ma we now have F=0.046kg x 100000 m/s^2 giving us 4600N.

>

> The point of all this above is to show that it is not mass (constant in this case) but acceleration that generates distance. so how do we increase acceleration. First good technique is the biggest factor, without you are not consistently accelerating at max differential at the same time That's all good, but assuming perfect technique how can increase the velocity delta from the above equation. (Since we can't alter space time and edit the contact time of the club on ball).

>

> So once again making assumptions, if technique is perfect the only way to increase acceleration is a greater velocity delta. Now if we were to increase strength of the core, wrist, hips, and forearms to the purpose of being able to have a faster hips and body accelerations one can indeed increase the velocity delta, increasing acceleration and therefore more distance, assuming perfect technique.

>

> My conclusion is distance is far easier to gain with perfect technique, but can be aided by increased strength.

 

Perfectly stated. That is the way I see it, and I feel I am at my maximum as far as technique and whatever strength I can get from just swinging a club hard as I can is concerned. My next move would be to hit the gym. My chicken legs need help!

[Rosco1216]

> @LICC said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > >

> > > > > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

> > > >

> > > > Can you link to the other thread? I'll be happy to read it.

> > >

> > > I found it and took a screenshot. To give a little more information in addition to what is said in the screenshot, I was a plus handicap and played high school golf. I graduated highschool at 6’ 165lb, I was strong(bench -280/squat - 385/didn’t really deadlift), lean and could swing it in the upper 110’s. Fast forward now I top out around 133-134chs.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > No way pal, you just learned to swing better/faster. Anyone can swing it 130 +if they practiced enough. No doubt in my mind.

>

> Again, you are claiming to have faster clubhead speed than most every Tour pro. It's amazing that we have so many freakishly rare athletes posting on this forum!

 

That’s irrelevant. Individuals who use the “faster than tour pros” are incredibly misinformed. Why would tour pros be the basis for what is considered fast? Are they the athletic peak of what’s possible from a speed and power standpoint?

[Krt22]

> @LICC said:

> > @clevited said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No, I gained roughly 10 mph from my swing changes, and over the past years I have gained another 10 or so (it still goes up but has mostly stalled and I am just maintaining it). The only difference between now and then, I am stronger, and noticeably so.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I would disagree with you about the bias spin. I have experience, effecting my view. You have no experience, and have bias based on what you want to believe is true. Maybe try to prove your point of view by trying to disprove it. What I mean is, try and find examples of where people did indeed gain speed and distance due to fitness efforts. Worst thing that can happen is you change your mind? Best thing that can happen, you find more proof for your point of view.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 10mph amounts to 30 yards or so. You did not add 30 yards from fitness training. Stop with this.

> > > >

> > > > Lol, how can you say that when you know nothing about him, his fitness level, or his swing. Give me a break

> > >

> > > Because it is incompatible with normal human physiology. And this is from the man who said he can regularly CARRY an old persimmon driver 300 yards. That is a pattern of exaggeration.

> >

> > Sorry bud, never said I could regularly carry 300 with a persimmon. I said I could get in a groove and rattle off a few in a row that carry 300 on my LM which was a Skytrak which I used as an example of how the longest pros could likely manage to do that frequently given my skill level (which isn't nearly as good or consistent as a pros). 170s ball speed, 14-16* or so vertical launch angle, low 2ks spin, 1450 ft above sea level. Yeah, about 300 carry on those ones. On a GC2 that might be 320 lol. (humor that only LM owners might get).

> >

> > Btw, that is really hard to do. I had to really work at that and warm up for a long time to make it happen, little jerk of a club and its tiny sweet spot!

>

> Like I said, that means you can carry it farther than most all the Tour pros. Just doesn't sound realistic but maybe you are a freakish athletic talent. If so, your personal experiences are the rare exception.

 

Nothing like completely anecdotal evidence to poorly support your bold/definitive claim. Hitting the ball far and consistently hitting the ball far/scoring in tournament conditions are two very different things. On average the web.com tour players are longer than those on the PGA tour. This whole notion that hitting it longer than some tour pros makes it's an impossible task is laughable.