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Is strength training significantly increase distance?


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> @Krt22 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @clevited said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > d9wozbvse0jv.png

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No, I gained roughly 10 mph from my swing changes, and over the past years I have gained another 10 or so (it still goes up but has mostly stalled and I am just maintaining it). The only difference between now and then, I am stronger, and noticeably so.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I would disagree with you about the bias spin. I have experience, effecting my view. You have no experience, and have bias based on what you want to believe is true. Maybe try to prove your point of view by trying to disprove it. What I mean is, try and find examples of where people did indeed gain speed and distance due to fitness efforts. Worst thing that can happen is you change your mind? Best thing that can happen, you find more proof for your point of view.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 10mph amounts to 30 yards or so. You did not add 30 yards from fitness training. Stop with this.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lol, how can you say that when you know nothing about him, his fitness level, or his swing. Give me a break

> > > >

> > > > Because it is incompatible with normal human physiology. And this is from the man who said he can regularly CARRY an old persimmon driver 300 yards. That is a pattern of exaggeration.

> > >

> > > Sorry bud, never said I could regularly carry 300 with a persimmon. I said I could get in a groove and rattle off a few in a row that carry 300 on my LM which was a Skytrak which I used as an example of how the longest pros could likely manage to do that frequently given my skill level (which isn't nearly as good or consistent as a pros). 170s ball speed, 14-16* or so vertical launch angle, low 2ks spin, 1450 ft above sea level. Yeah, about 300 carry on those ones. On a GC2 that might be 320 lol. (humor that only LM owners might get).

> > >

> > > Btw, that is really hard to do. I had to really work at that and warm up for a long time to make it happen, little jerk of a club and its tiny sweet spot!

> >

> > Like I said, that means you can carry it farther than most all the Tour pros. Just doesn't sound realistic but maybe you are a freakish athletic talent. If so, your personal experiences are the rare exception.

>

> Nothing like completely anecdotal evidence to poorly support your bold/definitive claim. Hitting the ball far and consistently hitting the ball far/scoring in tournament conditions are two very different things. On average the web.com tour players are longer than those on the PGA tour. This whole notion that hitting it longer than some tour pros makes it's an impossible task is laughable.

 

Exactly. I may swing faster than most tour pro's as shown by the stats, but I know of several that have higher ceilings than their stats show, and also, I am not nearly as good as any pro. I have good days and bad. It is hard to control that kind of speed! I mostly use it for scrambles and I have to bunt the driver in order to try and improve my golf scores. My bunt is still pretty substantial though. All thanks to my getting stronger and upping my limit.

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There are two reasons that golfers refuse to believe that there is a link between working out and distance off the tee. They don't want to work out. Most people are busy and/or lazy, and a good worko

I would not say heavy weight lifting type strength training is directly tied to distance; it **contributes**. **Distance comes from mechanics and technique**. What Cardio and strength/cross-training

I think strength training is great for health, confidence and overall athleticism. I didnt hit it farther when I was bigger and more muscular though. I didnt start hitting it far until I started yoga

> @LICC said:

> > @GoGoErky said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > d9wozbvse0jv.png

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No, I gained roughly 10 mph from my swing changes, and over the past years I have gained another 10 or so (it still goes up but has mostly stalled and I am just maintaining it). The only difference between now and then, I am stronger, and noticeably so.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I would disagree with you about the bias spin. I have experience, effecting my view. You have no experience, and have bias based on what you want to believe is true. Maybe try to prove your point of view by trying to disprove it. What I mean is, try and find examples of where people did indeed gain speed and distance due to fitness efforts. Worst thing that can happen is you change your mind? Best thing that can happen, you find more proof for your point of view.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 10mph amounts to 30 yards or so. You did not add 30 yards from fitness training. Stop with this.

> > > >

> > > > Lol, how can you say that when you know nothing about him, his fitness level, or his swing. Give me a break

> > >

> > > Because it is incompatible with normal human physiology. And this is from the man who said he can regularly CARRY an old persimmon driver 300 yards. That is a pattern of exaggeration.

> >

> > Please cite any study that proves your point.

>

> Please show verified data of any Tour pro who substantially increased distance by adding fitness training alone.

 

You have been shown multiple studies, quotes from players and their coaches and info from members of their own experience. You refuse to believe anything and you are doing nothing more than regurgitating your opinion to either 1) boost post count 2) hear yourself talk 3) be annoying and obnoxious 4) waiting for people to agree with you or any combo of those.

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> @clevited said:

> > @Warrior42111 said:

> > It's all about efficiency, and muscle can help and even hurt it's all on how it is used. This is why IMO strength is an indirect correlation to distance.

> >

> > Let's get nerdy and assume a perfect environment (removing the coefficients of the grass, improper angles etc). The force use to hit the golf ball is F=ma. The mass of a golf ball is give or take 46g. Acceleration is the difference in velocities over the same time period. so a=(v2-v1)/(t2-t1). for impact we will have a time difference of 0.0005 seconds. and the velocity change is 50 m/s. now we have a=100000m/s^2. Going back to F=ma we now have F=0.046kg x 100000 m/s^2 giving us 4600N.

> >

> > The point of all this above is to show that it is not mass (constant in this case) but acceleration that generates distance. so how do we increase acceleration. First good technique is the biggest factor, without you are not consistently accelerating at max differential at the same time That's all good, but assuming perfect technique how can increase the velocity delta from the above equation. (Since we can't alter space time and edit the contact time of the club on ball).

> >

> > So once again making assumptions, if technique is perfect the only way to increase acceleration is a greater velocity delta. Now if we were to increase strength of the core, wrist, hips, and forearms to the purpose of being able to have a faster hips and body accelerations one can indeed increase the velocity delta, increasing acceleration and therefore more distance, assuming perfect technique.

> >

> > My conclusion is distance is far easier to gain with perfect technique, but can be aided by increased strength.

>

> Perfectly stated. That is the way I see it, and I feel I am at my maximum as far as technique and whatever strength I can get from just swinging a club hard as I can is concerned. My next move would be to hit the gym. My chicken legs need help!

 

It's a two way street though, as added strength can alter technique, and technique is the quicker way to gain. Also to get nerdy one more time strength training by simple definition is inducing muscle contractions. You're swing is built on certain muscle neurons firing in a certain sequence to make your body do what it wants.

 

By practicing and repeating perfect technique you are indeed doing a muscle workout training those muscle groups albeit at minimal contractions.

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> @Warrior42111 said:

> > @clevited said:

> > > @Warrior42111 said:

> > > It's all about efficiency, and muscle can help and even hurt it's all on how it is used. This is why IMO strength is an indirect correlation to distance.

> > >

> > > Let's get nerdy and assume a perfect environment (removing the coefficients of the grass, improper angles etc). The force use to hit the golf ball is F=ma. The mass of a golf ball is give or take 46g. Acceleration is the difference in velocities over the same time period. so a=(v2-v1)/(t2-t1). for impact we will have a time difference of 0.0005 seconds. and the velocity change is 50 m/s. now we have a=100000m/s^2. Going back to F=ma we now have F=0.046kg x 100000 m/s^2 giving us 4600N.

> > >

> > > The point of all this above is to show that it is not mass (constant in this case) but acceleration that generates distance. so how do we increase acceleration. First good technique is the biggest factor, without you are not consistently accelerating at max differential at the same time That's all good, but assuming perfect technique how can increase the velocity delta from the above equation. (Since we can't alter space time and edit the contact time of the club on ball).

> > >

> > > So once again making assumptions, if technique is perfect the only way to increase acceleration is a greater velocity delta. Now if we were to increase strength of the core, wrist, hips, and forearms to the purpose of being able to have a faster hips and body accelerations one can indeed increase the velocity delta, increasing acceleration and therefore more distance, assuming perfect technique.

> > >

> > > My conclusion is distance is far easier to gain with perfect technique, but can be aided by increased strength.

> >

> > Perfectly stated. That is the way I see it, and I feel I am at my maximum as far as technique and whatever strength I can get from just swinging a club hard as I can is concerned. My next move would be to hit the gym. My chicken legs need help!

>

> It's a two way street though, as added strength can alter technique, and technique is the quicker way to gain. Also to get nerdy one more time strength training by simple definition is inducing muscle contractions. You're swing is built on certain muscle neurons firing in a certain sequence to make your body do what it wants.

>

> By practicing and repeating perfect technique you are indeed doing a muscle workout training those muscle groups albeit at minimal contractions.

 

Again, perfectly put and I agree. I love the nerdiness, I speak nerd so it works for me.

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I think Tony Finau is a good example of someone that leaves a little in the tank. I wonder what his shotlink stats are? He sure doesn't swing like that in tournaments.

 

Any other pros getting 200MPH ball speed for a max?

 

Pertinent video at the bottom of the page.

 

https://www.golf.com/instruction/driving/2019/09/10/tony-finau-viral-video-golf-swing/

Driver: Titleist 910 D2 9.75* Diamana Kai'li 65 Mid S 3W: Titleist 910F 16.5 * Diamana Kai'li 75 Mid R 3H: Titleist 910H 19 * Diamana Kai'li 80HYB Mid R 2I: TourModel III True Temper S 3-PW: Mizuno MP 60 True Temper Dynamic Gold S300 S SW: TourModel III True Temper S Putter: Cobra Anvil 005 Ball: Ksig 3 piece

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> @clevited said:

> > @Warrior42111 said:

> > > @clevited said:

> > > > @Warrior42111 said:

> > > > It's all about efficiency, and muscle can help and even hurt it's all on how it is used. This is why IMO strength is an indirect correlation to distance.

> > > >

> > > > Let's get nerdy and assume a perfect environment (removing the coefficients of the grass, improper angles etc). The force use to hit the golf ball is F=ma. The mass of a golf ball is give or take 46g. Acceleration is the difference in velocities over the same time period. so a=(v2-v1)/(t2-t1). for impact we will have a time difference of 0.0005 seconds. and the velocity change is 50 m/s. now we have a=100000m/s^2. Going back to F=ma we now have F=0.046kg x 100000 m/s^2 giving us 4600N.

> > > >

> > > > The point of all this above is to show that it is not mass (constant in this case) but acceleration that generates distance. so how do we increase acceleration. First good technique is the biggest factor, without you are not consistently accelerating at max differential at the same time That's all good, but assuming perfect technique how can increase the velocity delta from the above equation. (Since we can't alter space time and edit the contact time of the club on ball).

> > > >

> > > > So once again making assumptions, if technique is perfect the only way to increase acceleration is a greater velocity delta. Now if we were to increase strength of the core, wrist, hips, and forearms to the purpose of being able to have a faster hips and body accelerations one can indeed increase the velocity delta, increasing acceleration and therefore more distance, assuming perfect technique.

> > > >

> > > > My conclusion is distance is far easier to gain with perfect technique, but can be aided by increased strength.

> > >

> > > Perfectly stated. That is the way I see it, and I feel I am at my maximum as far as technique and whatever strength I can get from just swinging a club hard as I can is concerned. My next move would be to hit the gym. My chicken legs need help!

> >

> > It's a two way street though, as added strength can alter technique, and technique is the quicker way to gain. Also to get nerdy one more time strength training by simple definition is inducing muscle contractions. You're swing is built on certain muscle neurons firing in a certain sequence to make your body do what it wants.

> >

> > By practicing and repeating perfect technique you are indeed doing a muscle workout training those muscle groups albeit at minimal contractions.

>

> Again, perfectly put and I agree. I love the nerdiness, I speak nerd so it works for me.

 

Nerds unite!!!

 

If it is any more help, I weight lift too, and I tend to focus mostly on compound exercises, squats, bench, dead-lift, BB rows, as it more mimics reality of muscle groups firing in sequence, vs an isolation exercise. If it's your first time in the gym or it's been a while, use a trainer even just for a month or two to get your technique down. You can cheat your way through the beginning but as weight increase you can injure yourself with improper movements, and that ends some to all of your golf season.

 

Also if possible hit the range or do practice swings on off days, as you do not want to lose the technique and have to learn the swing with the 'new' body.

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There are so many external variables that could influence "distance" numbers on any given day (wind, moisture, fairway height, course setup) as well as the fact the tour measures only two drives per round that distance in and of itself isn't necessarily the best measure of strength training.

 

Club head speed is a much better measure, and yes, there are variables that can influence that beyond strength training as well. Stallings went from averaging 112.45 in 2016 to 115.72 in 2018, a 3.27 mph average increase. If one mph = 3 yards, some might consider that a significant increase in potential distance. If Stallings attributes his fitness regimen as a reason for those gains, I'll take him at his word.

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> @Rosco1216 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > d9wozbvse0jv.png

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

> > > > >

> > > > > Can you link to the other thread? I'll be happy to read it.

> > > >

> > > > I found it and took a screenshot. To give a little more information in addition to what is said in the screenshot, I was a plus handicap and played high school golf. I graduated highschool at 6’ 165lb, I was strong(bench -280/squat - 385/didn’t really deadlift), lean and could swing it in the upper 110’s. Fast forward now I top out around 133-134chs.

> > > > abw923habvms.png

> > > >

> > >

> > > No way pal, you just learned to swing better/faster. Anyone can swing it 130 +if they practiced enough. No doubt in my mind.

> >

> > Again, you are claiming to have faster clubhead speed than most every Tour pro. It's amazing that we have so many freakishly rare athletes posting on this forum!

>

> That’s irrelevant. Individuals who use the “faster than tour pros” are incredibly misinformed. Why would tour pros be the basis for what is considered fast? Are they the athletic peak of what’s possible from a speed and power standpoint?

 

Because they are the best golfers on the planet, by miles ahead of recreational golfers.

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> @Krt22 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @clevited said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > d9wozbvse0jv.png

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No, I gained roughly 10 mph from my swing changes, and over the past years I have gained another 10 or so (it still goes up but has mostly stalled and I am just maintaining it). The only difference between now and then, I am stronger, and noticeably so.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I would disagree with you about the bias spin. I have experience, effecting my view. You have no experience, and have bias based on what you want to believe is true. Maybe try to prove your point of view by trying to disprove it. What I mean is, try and find examples of where people did indeed gain speed and distance due to fitness efforts. Worst thing that can happen is you change your mind? Best thing that can happen, you find more proof for your point of view.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 10mph amounts to 30 yards or so. You did not add 30 yards from fitness training. Stop with this.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lol, how can you say that when you know nothing about him, his fitness level, or his swing. Give me a break

> > > >

> > > > Because it is incompatible with normal human physiology. And this is from the man who said he can regularly CARRY an old persimmon driver 300 yards. That is a pattern of exaggeration.

> > >

> > > Sorry bud, never said I could regularly carry 300 with a persimmon. I said I could get in a groove and rattle off a few in a row that carry 300 on my LM which was a Skytrak which I used as an example of how the longest pros could likely manage to do that frequently given my skill level (which isn't nearly as good or consistent as a pros). 170s ball speed, 14-16* or so vertical launch angle, low 2ks spin, 1450 ft above sea level. Yeah, about 300 carry on those ones. On a GC2 that might be 320 lol. (humor that only LM owners might get).

> > >

> > > Btw, that is really hard to do. I had to really work at that and warm up for a long time to make it happen, little jerk of a club and its tiny sweet spot!

> >

> > Like I said, that means you can carry it farther than most all the Tour pros. Just doesn't sound realistic but maybe you are a freakish athletic talent. If so, your personal experiences are the rare exception.

>

> Nothing like completely anecdotal evidence to poorly support your bold/definitive claim. Hitting the ball far and consistently hitting the ball far/scoring in tournament conditions are two very different things. On average the web.com tour players are longer than those on the PGA tour. This whole notion that hitting it longer than some tour pros makes it's an impossible task is laughable.

 

That statement was not anecdotal evidence. You are getting your debating terms mixed up.

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Guys who can hit it farther than average and even very long Tour pros are a dime a dozen if you hang out at the right places. The top amateur ranks are full of guys who carry the ball just as far (and some farther than) the longest tour pros.

 

What most of those guys don't have (and will never have) are the overall games of the best pros. I can show you trackman numbers that will make you laugh. Hitting balls with the 3rd longest player in the Korn Ferry, with an average distance of 328 in 2018, one of our young kids (16 or 17 at the time) steps up on the trackman, and here were his numbers, directly after the Tour pros at our club were hitting. Same machine. Same day. Bear Creek Golf Club in Murrieta, CA.

 

The fact that you doubt that there might be someone on this board who can hit it longer than Dustin Johnson, et al., is very telling. I now finally realize that you just don't understand the game of golf like you think you do.

 

Equipment is a HUGE factor. it's the number one factor. But bigger, stronger, more athletic players who are committed to getting and staying both strong, flexible, and overall FIT, is also changing the game.

 

lpkw0xl880ob.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> @LICC said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > d9wozbvse0jv.png

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > >

> > > > > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

> > > >

> > > > Can you link to the other thread? I'll be happy to read it.

> > >

> > > I found it and took a screenshot. To give a little more information in addition to what is said in the screenshot, I was a plus handicap and played high school golf. I graduated highschool at 6’ 165lb, I was strong(bench -280/squat - 385/didn’t really deadlift), lean and could swing it in the upper 110’s. Fast forward now I top out around 133-134chs.

> > > abw923habvms.png

> > >

> >

> > No way pal, you just learned to swing better/faster. Anyone can swing it 130 +if they practiced enough. No doubt in my mind.

>

> Again, you ( @Rosco1216 ) are claiming to have faster clubhead speed than most every Tour pro. It's amazing that we have so many freakishly rare athletes posting on this forum!

 

 

PING G400 Max - Atmos Tour Spec Red - 65 - S
Titleist TS2 15* 3-wood - Tensei Blue - 65 - S; Titleist 918 5-wood 19*. Atmos Tour Spec Red - 65 - S
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Titleist AP2 716 8i 37* KBS Tour S; Titleist AP2 716 9i 42* KBS Tour S
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> @Warrior42111 said:

> > @clevited said:

> > > @Warrior42111 said:

> > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > @Warrior42111 said:

> > > > > It's all about efficiency, and muscle can help and even hurt it's all on how it is used. This is why IMO strength is an indirect correlation to distance.

> > > > >

> > > > > Let's get nerdy and assume a perfect environment (removing the coefficients of the grass, improper angles etc). The force use to hit the golf ball is F=ma. The mass of a golf ball is give or take 46g. Acceleration is the difference in velocities over the same time period. so a=(v2-v1)/(t2-t1). for impact we will have a time difference of 0.0005 seconds. and the velocity change is 50 m/s. now we have a=100000m/s^2. Going back to F=ma we now have F=0.046kg x 100000 m/s^2 giving us 4600N.

> > > > >

> > > > > The point of all this above is to show that it is not mass (constant in this case) but acceleration that generates distance. so how do we increase acceleration. First good technique is the biggest factor, without you are not consistently accelerating at max differential at the same time That's all good, but assuming perfect technique how can increase the velocity delta from the above equation. (Since we can't alter space time and edit the contact time of the club on ball).

> > > > >

> > > > > So once again making assumptions, if technique is perfect the only way to increase acceleration is a greater velocity delta. Now if we were to increase strength of the core, wrist, hips, and forearms to the purpose of being able to have a faster hips and body accelerations one can indeed increase the velocity delta, increasing acceleration and therefore more distance, assuming perfect technique.

> > > > >

> > > > > My conclusion is distance is far easier to gain with perfect technique, but can be aided by increased strength.

> > > >

> > > > Perfectly stated. That is the way I see it, and I feel I am at my maximum as far as technique and whatever strength I can get from just swinging a club hard as I can is concerned. My next move would be to hit the gym. My chicken legs need help!

> > >

> > > It's a two way street though, as added strength can alter technique, and technique is the quicker way to gain. Also to get nerdy one more time strength training by simple definition is inducing muscle contractions. You're swing is built on certain muscle neurons firing in a certain sequence to make your body do what it wants.

> > >

> > > By practicing and repeating perfect technique you are indeed doing a muscle workout training those muscle groups albeit at minimal contractions.

> >

> > Again, perfectly put and I agree. I love the nerdiness, I speak nerd so it works for me.

>

> Nerds unite!!!

>

> If it is any more help, I weight lift too, and I tend to focus mostly on compound exercises, squats, bench, dead-lift, BB rows, as it more mimics reality of muscle groups firing in sequence, vs an isolation exercise. If it's your first time in the gym or it's been a while, use a trainer even just for a month or two to get your technique down. You can cheat your way through the beginning but as weight increase you can injure yourself with improper movements, and that ends some to all of your golf season.

>

> Also if possible hit the range or do practice swings on off days, as you do not want to lose the technique and have to learn the swing with the 'new' body.

 

Yeah, I am hoping to start a gym membership over the winter. Tough to work that out with 2 children under 2 but I need to for health and because I want more speed (can you have too much? I think not!). They have trainers and it has been a long time since I have been in a gym so I think you are right. I should start with a trainer helping me do things right. Also, I swing a crapton in my garage in the winter months. Used to have an LM and sim software but I am in the process of saving money to heat the garage and buy a GC2. I don't dare stop swinging a few days a week, I want to maintain at the very least what I have.

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> @Obee said:

> Guys who can hit it farther than average and even very long Tour pros are a dime a dozen if you hang out at the right places. The top amateur ranks are full of guys who carry the ball just as far (and some farther than) the longest tour pros.

>

> What most of those guys don't have (and will never have) are the overall games of the best pros. I can show you trackman numbers that will make you laugh. Hitting balls with the 3rd longest player in the Korn Ferry, with an average distance of 328 in 2018, one of our young kids (16 or 17 at the time) steps up on the trackman, and here were his numbers, directly after the Tour pros at our club were hitting. Same machine. Same day. Bear Creek Golf Club in Murrieta, CA.

>

> The fact that you doubt that there might be someone on this board who can hit it longer than Dustin Johnson, et al., is very telling. I now finally realize that you just don't understand the game of golf like you think you do.

>

> Equipment is a HUGE factor. it's the number one factor. But bigger, stronger, more athletic players who are committed to getting and staying both strong, flexible, and overall FIT, is also changing the game.

>

> lpkw0xl880ob.jpg

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > d9wozbvse0jv.png

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

> > > > >

> > > > > Can you link to the other thread? I'll be happy to read it.

> > > >

> > > > I found it and took a screenshot. To give a little more information in addition to what is said in the screenshot, I was a plus handicap and played high school golf. I graduated highschool at 6’ 165lb, I was strong(bench -280/squat - 385/didn’t really deadlift), lean and could swing it in the upper 110’s. Fast forward now I top out around 133-134chs.

> > > > abw923habvms.png

> > > >

> > >

> > > No way pal, you just learned to swing better/faster. Anyone can swing it 130 +if they practiced enough. No doubt in my mind.

> >

> > Again, you ( @Rosco1216 ) are claiming to have faster clubhead speed than most every Tour pro. It's amazing that we have so many freakishly rare athletes posting on this forum!

>

>

 

Nice, those numbers are pure pornography to me. Love me some launch monitor bombs!

 

Edit: And he didn't even hit it good (1.41 smash), or maybe crappy range ball...which with 1.41 would sound about right.

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> @LICC said:

> > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to show people how it went for me so it can possibly inspire others to do the same based on my results (I have a lot of room for improvement so I really do expect 5 to 10 mph to be very reasonable based on what I have learned from others).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, take from that what you will but there is no doubt in my mind that proper strength training can add significant speed and distance on its own.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of the people speculating about strength training adding distance for Tour players can explain the Scott Stallings example. Based on what I see overall with the distance stats, strength training has little to no impact on distance for Tour pros. Stallings is a prime example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/beyond-the-ropes/2019/05/22/scott-stallings-physical-transformation-paying-dividends.html

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > d9wozbvse0jv.png

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Can you link to the other thread? I'll be happy to read it.

> > > > >

> > > > > I found it and took a screenshot. To give a little more information in addition to what is said in the screenshot, I was a plus handicap and played high school golf. I graduated highschool at 6’ 165lb, I was strong(bench -280/squat - 385/didn’t really deadlift), lean and could swing it in the upper 110’s. Fast forward now I top out around 133-134chs.

> > > > > abw923habvms.png

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > No way pal, you just learned to swing better/faster. Anyone can swing it 130 +if they practiced enough. No doubt in my mind.

> > >

> > > Again, you are claiming to have faster clubhead speed than most every Tour pro. It's amazing that we have so many freakishly rare athletes posting on this forum!

> >

> > That’s irrelevant. Individuals who use the “faster than tour pros” are incredibly misinformed. Why would tour pros be the basis for what is considered fast? Are they the athletic peak of what’s possible from a speed and power standpoint?

>

> Because they are the best golfers on the planet, by miles ahead of recreational golfers.

 

Exactly, they are the best GOLFERS. Last time anyone checked, golfers aren’t the biggest/fastest/strongest athletes.

  • Like 1

Driver: EF SZ Triple Diamond at 6.5* - T1100 6.5 tipped 1.5"
Hybrid: G410 @ 16* - Evenflow Black 85x tipped 1.5”
Ping i500 4i @ 20* - Modus 120tx
Miura MC 501 4-P - Modus 120tx
Bridgestone TourB XW1 50*/55* - X100
Callaway MD 4 raw 60* - S400
Scotty Cameron Catalina Two - original, oil can.



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> @LICC said:

 

> That statement was not anecdotal evidence. You are getting your debating terms mixed up.

 

 

"Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes: evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony."

 

Seems spot on, your assertion that it's essentially impossible for amateurs to hit it longer than professionals is 100% your own personal opinion and not remotely supported by facts. The reality is there is tons of data proving the exact opposite.

 

But if you want to get into semantics, we can do that too. Your opinion is flat out wrong and you are completely out of touch with what many amateurs are capable of.

 

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Here you go, LICC.

 

Driver: EF SZ Triple Diamond at 6.5* - T1100 6.5 tipped 1.5"
Hybrid: G410 @ 16* - Evenflow Black 85x tipped 1.5”
Ping i500 4i @ 20* - Modus 120tx
Miura MC 501 4-P - Modus 120tx
Bridgestone TourB XW1 50*/55* - X100
Callaway MD 4 raw 60* - S400
Scotty Cameron Catalina Two - original, oil can.



[url="https://www.instagram.com/rc_nova"]https://www.instagram.com/rc_nova[/url]

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> @Krt22 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @clevited said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

 

> > > > > >

>

>

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

>

> > > >

> > >

> > > No way pal, you just learned to swing better/faster. Anyone can swing it 130 +if they practiced enough. No doubt in my mind.

> >

> > Again, you ( @Rosco1216 ) are claiming to have faster clubhead speed than most every Tour pro. It's amazing that we have so many freakishly rare athletes posting on this forum!

>

>

 

The average driving distance for recreational golfers is about 220 yards with an average clubhead speed around 95. Anything over 115mph puts you in the 99th percentile. The average driver clubhead speed for a Div. 1 NCAA golfer is about 114mph. This notion that lots of golfers can hit it 300+ and have 130 mph clubhead speeds is silly. Two people here claim they are in the top 1%ile in speed and distance. Ok, Even if so, your situations are the rare exception and I have seen nothing to believe that 99.5% of golfers can gain 10mph and 30 yards by fitness training. I'll chalk it up to accepting the claims of the two people here who say they have freakishly super athletic ability.

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Now you are completely moving the goal posts, quite typical for those who have zero evidence to support their claims. For every set of data, there are averages and there are those at the tail ends of the distribution. There are those who can barely drive it 150 and there are those who can and do hit it just as long or longer than PGA pros. You previously made absolute statements that such outliers were nearly impossible, for no other reason than using PGA tour players as your upper limit of speed potential which is just silly. And now essentially saying any data point outside of that is due to "freaks". Give me a break

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> @LICC said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

>

> > > > > > >

> >

> >

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

> >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > No way pal, you just learned to swing better/faster. Anyone can swing it 130 +if they practiced enough. No doubt in my mind.

> > >

> > > Again, you ( @Rosco1216 ) are claiming to have faster clubhead speed than most every Tour pro. It's amazing that we have so many freakishly rare athletes posting on this forum!

> >

> >

>

> The average driving distance for recreational golfers is about 220 yards with an average clubhead speed around 95. Anything over 115mph puts you in the 99th percentile. The average driver clubhead speed for a Div. 1 NCAA golfer is about 114mph. This notion that lots of golfers can hit it 300+ and have 130 mph clubhead speeds is silly. Two people here claim they are in the top 1%ile in speed and distance. Ok, Even if so, your situations are the rare exception and I have seen nothing to believe that 99.5% of golfers can gain 10mph and 30 yards by fitness training. I'll chalk it up to accepting the claims of the two people here who say they have freakishly super athletic ability.

 

There have been hundreds of threads with misinformed guys who try to use statistics and tour pros in distance arguments.

 

The average “golfer” of 220 includes seniors who are decades from their prime and guys who are like Phillip Seymour Hoffman making it rain on the basketball court in Along Came Polly.

 

I’ve been in lots of discussions about distance and working out and such. Early on I use to get defensive when guys say I’m a liar or I don’t how far I truly hit it. I participate in these to help guys out with experience and expertise. My video link to IG didn’t seem to work. My handle is @rc_nova

Driver: EF SZ Triple Diamond at 6.5* - T1100 6.5 tipped 1.5"
Hybrid: G410 @ 16* - Evenflow Black 85x tipped 1.5”
Ping i500 4i @ 20* - Modus 120tx
Miura MC 501 4-P - Modus 120tx
Bridgestone TourB XW1 50*/55* - X100
Callaway MD 4 raw 60* - S400
Scotty Cameron Catalina Two - original, oil can.



[url="https://www.instagram.com/rc_nova"]https://www.instagram.com/rc_nova[/url]

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g8o4xv6tsqtz.jpeg

 

Driver: EF SZ Triple Diamond at 6.5* - T1100 6.5 tipped 1.5"
Hybrid: G410 @ 16* - Evenflow Black 85x tipped 1.5”
Ping i500 4i @ 20* - Modus 120tx
Miura MC 501 4-P - Modus 120tx
Bridgestone TourB XW1 50*/55* - X100
Callaway MD 4 raw 60* - S400
Scotty Cameron Catalina Two - original, oil can.



[url="https://www.instagram.com/rc_nova"]https://www.instagram.com/rc_nova[/url]

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Share on other sites

> @LICC said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today I have pretty much plateaued and I am struggling to gain anything else. I am working more on consistency and accuracy so I can lay down my max speed for when I need it. I am trying to find the time to hit the gym because I know I can raise my ceiling even higher (I am guessing 5 to 10 mph, and then have a nice stable dialed back swing that is still cookin). If I find the time to do it, I would work on my legs for sure, and continue to improve my arm and core strength. I would try and copy some of the long drive guys workouts and do dead lifts and squats primarily. If I am able to start that training, I think I will post a before and after to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

>

> > > > > > >

> >

> >

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys like Tiger,Rory are already long before they start gaining tons of muscle and strength. And I believe stretching back or hips to turn more isn't a good option since more movement mean less consistent right? So is strength training really help in term of distance? Or just help you dig it from rough and any other abnormal situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it for what it is worth, after all I am just a guy on the internet but it does indeed add speed, and therefore distance if done properly. If done wrong it can not help speed much, and it can ruin your swing.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my own personal experience, I did what could be considered a form of strength training. I went to the range and embarrassed myself at least a couple times a week for years hitting hundreds of balls as hard as I could. I got a radar to help document my relative improvements, and later I bought a launch monitor to help capture my ball speed. Through swing changes I kind of went stagnate early on, gaining about 10 mph over my original speed but since then, year over year, I have gained another 10 roughly just from getting stronger. My hand strength is noticeably much stronger than it ever was, so are my forearms and my legs, my wrists and my trunk.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Clubhead speed is a big component of distance. This article says it has increased. You really need to stop relying completely on Shot Link. There are multiple reasons that you might not see a drastic change in that stat. I really think you need to look at club speed and relate that to potential distance gains. If you gain club speed, you can or cannot gain distance depending on how you use it for instance (more spin, more control, same distance for example).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Knowing you however, you will not accept this and that is fine, I posted my personal experience and research. Others have as well here and elsewhere. Reject it if you want and keep digging up examples that attempt to support your view.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure a person of your wisdom understands all of the variables in this. I am also sure a person of your wisdom will verify things for yourself by searching for the answers as best you can and opening your mind. I would seriously like to know more about why you are so strongly opinionated about the above. Do you have personal experience that didn't go well maybe? Have you tried to gain club head speed with golf specific fitness? I can help you in this area and perhaps then you will come to learn the truth.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

> >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > No way pal, you just learned to swing better/faster. Anyone can swing it 130 +if they practiced enough. No doubt in my mind.

> > >

> > > Again, you ( @Rosco1216 ) are claiming to have faster clubhead speed than most every Tour pro. It's amazing that we have so many freakishly rare athletes posting on this forum!

> >

> >

>

> The average driving distance for recreational golfers is about 220 yards with an average clubhead speed around 95. Anything over 115mph puts you in the 99th percentile. The average driver clubhead speed for a Div. 1 NCAA golfer is about 114mph. This notion that lots of golfers can hit it 300+ and have 130 mph clubhead speeds is silly. Two people here claim they are in the top 1%ile in speed and distance. Ok, Even if so, your situations are the rare exception and I have seen nothing to believe that 99.5% of golfers can gain 10mph and 30 yards by fitness training. I'll chalk it up to accepting the claims of the two people here who say they have freakishly super athletic ability.

 

You're just not playing with those guys who can bomb it then.

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How many golfers are there on the planet? And yes, if you are above 115 mph you are in the 99th percentile of speed. No one is disputing that. But the best golfers hit it the furthest. I'm a +3 handicap, play competitive golf, and have been around some of the best players in the world.

 

The guys I regularly play with have above 110 club head speed. I realize that this is not the case for a lot of people. But I don't know many low handicaps that swing at 95 and play high level competitive golf.

 

So to say that only 2 guys on this board are faster than the longest guys on the PGA TOUR is laughable. Just because you can't figure out how to gain speed doesn't mean that other people can't. And yes, golf is more than just about speed, but high level golf REQUIRES speed.

 

Back to the original question, speed comes from the right swing technique. Copy what the best do to hit it far and you will hit it far. You need to work on sequencing, coordination, and technique. Look at guys who know how to teach speed. Guys like George Gankas, Lucas Wald, Josh Koch. They don't post on their instagram of their students doing regular strength work. They post swing changes, technique and sequencing changes. Muscle firing techniques, all to help coordination.

 

Anyone can learn coordination. It may take some people longer than others, but I bet if you worked on your sequencing and coordination for a solid year, you would hit it significantly farther.

 

If you worked on your strength alone for a solid year, you wouldn't gain near the speed as working on coordination.

 

Yoga, stretching, flexibility, all of these things help coordination. It is not because your muscles are looser, its because you got better at moving your body.

 

I could say that yoga can actually hurt your game because you become hyper flaccid. You need tension, and elasticity in your muscles in order to use them properly. Stringing them out isn't a good idea, which comes back to the basic ideas of speed increase. Which is moving better and increasing your coordination.

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> @Krt22 said:

> Now you are completely moving the goal posts, quite typical for those who have zero evidence to support their claims. For every set of data, there are averages and there are those at the tail ends of the distribution. There are those who can barely drive it 150 and there are those who can and do hit it just as long or longer than PGA pros. You previously made absolute statements that such outliers were nearly impossible, for no other reason than using PGA tour players as your upper limit of speed potential which is just silly. And now essentially saying any data point outside of that is due to "freaks". Give me a break

 

Keep scrambling if that makes you feel better ...

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> > > > > > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

 

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > No way pal, you just learned to swing better/faster. Anyone can swing it 130 +if they practiced enough. No doubt in my mind.

> > > >

> > > > Again, you ( @Rosco1216 ) are claiming to have faster clubhead speed than most every Tour pro. It's amazing that we have so many freakishly rare athletes posting on this forum!

> > >

> > >

> >

> > The average driving distance for recreational golfers is about 220 yards with an average clubhead speed around 95. Anything over 115mph puts you in the 99th percentile. The average driver clubhead speed for a Div. 1 NCAA golfer is about 114mph. This notion that lots of golfers can hit it 300+ and have 130 mph clubhead speeds is silly. Two people here claim they are in the top 1%ile in speed and distance. Ok, Even if so, your situations are the rare exception and I have seen nothing to believe that 99.5% of golfers can gain 10mph and 30 yards by fitness training. I'll chalk it up to accepting the claims of the two people here who say they have freakishly super athletic ability.

>

> There have been hundreds of threads with misinformed guys who try to use statistics and tour pros in distance arguments.

>

> The average “golfer” of 220 includes seniors who are decades from their prime and guys who are like Phillip Seymour Hoffman making it rain on the basketball court in Along Came Polly.

>

> I’ve been in lots of discussions about distance and working out and such. Early on I use to get defensive when guys say I’m a liar or I don’t how far I truly hit it. I participate in these to help guys out with experience and expertise. My video link to IG didn’t seem to work. My handle is @rc_nova

 

The average driving distance for those with handicaps between 10-19 is 215 yards. The average distance for handicaps between 5-10 is 230.

 

I won't challenge your actual driving distance, but I'm just saying that believing it is accepting that you are a top 1%ile golf athlete.

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Yep. Looks like he is -- when it comes to generating driving speed. He's also a pretty darn good amateur golfer if you look at some of his verifiable scores.

 

 

> @LICC said:

>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

> > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No way pal, you just learned to swing better/faster. Anyone can swing it 130 +if they practiced enough. No doubt in my mind.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again, you ( @Rosco1216 ) are claiming to have faster clubhead speed than most every Tour pro. It's amazing that we have so many freakishly rare athletes posting on this forum!

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > The average driving distance for recreational golfers is about 220 yards with an average clubhead speed around 95. Anything over 115mph puts you in the 99th percentile. The average driver clubhead speed for a Div. 1 NCAA golfer is about 114mph. This notion that lots of golfers can hit it 300+ and have 130 mph clubhead speeds is silly. Two people here claim they are in the top 1%ile in speed and distance. Ok, Even if so, your situations are the rare exception and I have seen nothing to believe that 99.5% of golfers can gain 10mph and 30 yards by fitness training. I'll chalk it up to accepting the claims of the two people here who say they have freakishly super athletic ability.

> >

> > There have been hundreds of threads with misinformed guys who try to use statistics and tour pros in distance arguments.

> >

> > The average “golfer” of 220 includes seniors who are decades from their prime and guys who are like Phillip Seymour Hoffman making it rain on the basketball court in Along Came Polly.

> >

> > I’ve been in lots of discussions about distance and working out and such. Early on I use to get defensive when guys say I’m a liar or I don’t how far I truly hit it. I participate in these to help guys out with experience and expertise. My video link to IG didn’t seem to work. My handle is @rc_nova

>

> The average driving distance for those with handicaps between 10-19 is 215 yards. The average distance for handicaps between 5-10 is 230.

>

> I won't challenge your actual driving distance, but I'm just saying that believing it is accepting that you are a top 1%ile golf athlete.

 

 

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> @LICC said:

>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

> > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No way pal, you just learned to swing better/faster. Anyone can swing it 130 +if they practiced enough. No doubt in my mind.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again, you ( @Rosco1216 ) are claiming to have faster clubhead speed than most every Tour pro. It's amazing that we have so many freakishly rare athletes posting on this forum!

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > The average driving distance for recreational golfers is about 220 yards with an average clubhead speed around 95. Anything over 115mph puts you in the 99th percentile. The average driver clubhead speed for a Div. 1 NCAA golfer is about 114mph. This notion that lots of golfers can hit it 300+ and have 130 mph clubhead speeds is silly. Two people here claim they are in the top 1%ile in speed and distance. Ok, Even if so, your situations are the rare exception and I have seen nothing to believe that 99.5% of golfers can gain 10mph and 30 yards by fitness training. I'll chalk it up to accepting the claims of the two people here who say they have freakishly super athletic ability.

> >

> > There have been hundreds of threads with misinformed guys who try to use statistics and tour pros in distance arguments.

> >

> > The average “golfer” of 220 includes seniors who are decades from their prime and guys who are like Phillip Seymour Hoffman making it rain on the basketball court in Along Came Polly.

> >

> > I’ve been in lots of discussions about distance and working out and such. Early on I use to get defensive when guys say I’m a liar or I don’t how far I truly hit it. I participate in these to help guys out with experience and expertise. My video link to IG didn’t seem to work. My handle is @rc_nova

>

> The average driving distance for those with handicaps between 10-19 is 215 yards. The average distance for handicaps between 5-10 is 230.

>

> I won't challenge your actual driving distance, but I'm just saying that believing it is accepting that you are a top 1%ile golf athlete.

 

How far I hit it and my percentile has absolutely nothing to do with the thread about strength gains correlating to distance. I posted to see how you were going to try and debunk that my strength training had nothing to do with how far I hit it now at 37 years vs when I was in my “prime”.

 

I was a plus handicap golfer growing up, 165lbs, extremely efficient in my swing and being in the high upper 110’s. Strong for my size and very fit.

Now 15 years later I’m 15mph faster and haven’t done any legitimate swing speed training apart from my gym workouts.

 

  • Like 1

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> @LICC said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > Now you are completely moving the goal posts, quite typical for those who have zero evidence to support their claims. For every set of data, there are averages and there are those at the tail ends of the distribution. There are those who can barely drive it 150 and there are those who can and do hit it just as long or longer than PGA pros. You previously made absolute statements that such outliers were nearly impossible, for no other reason than using PGA tour players as your upper limit of speed potential which is just silly. And now essentially saying any data point outside of that is due to "freaks". Give me a break

>

> Keep scrambling if that makes you feel better ...

 

The only one scrambling in here is you. I'm not the one who made unverifiable/outlandish statements. You are now going to "the top 1%" of golfers as those being capable of hitting it longer than you can fathom. Even if that were true (which we can't verify since you made up that value), well that means there are 240,000 golfers nationwide that can hit it longer than you can fathom. Just because you don't encounter them on any sort of regular basis does not mean they don't exist.

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> @LICC said:

>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

> > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No way pal, you just learned to swing better/faster. Anyone can swing it 130 +if they practiced enough. No doubt in my mind.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again, you ( @Rosco1216 ) are claiming to have faster clubhead speed than most every Tour pro. It's amazing that we have so many freakishly rare athletes posting on this forum!

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > The average driving distance for recreational golfers is about 220 yards with an average clubhead speed around 95. Anything over 115mph puts you in the 99th percentile. The average driver clubhead speed for a Div. 1 NCAA golfer is about 114mph. This notion that lots of golfers can hit it 300+ and have 130 mph clubhead speeds is silly. Two people here claim they are in the top 1%ile in speed and distance. Ok, Even if so, your situations are the rare exception and I have seen nothing to believe that 99.5% of golfers can gain 10mph and 30 yards by fitness training. I'll chalk it up to accepting the claims of the two people here who say they have freakishly super athletic ability.

> >

> > There have been hundreds of threads with misinformed guys who try to use statistics and tour pros in distance arguments.

> >

> > The average “golfer” of 220 includes seniors who are decades from their prime and guys who are like Phillip Seymour Hoffman making it rain on the basketball court in Along Came Polly.

> >

> > I’ve been in lots of discussions about distance and working out and such. Early on I use to get defensive when guys say I’m a liar or I don’t how far I truly hit it. I participate in these to help guys out with experience and expertise. My video link to IG didn’t seem to work. My handle is @rc_nova

>

> The average driving distance for those with handicaps between 10-19 is 215 yards. The average distance for handicaps between 5-10 is 230.

>

> I won't challenge your actual driving distance, but I'm just saying that believing it is accepting that you are a top 1%ile golf athlete.

 

I am a higher handicapper with well above average speed. I need to work on control. When I want to play as well as possible (and have less fun imo lol), I bunt it with the driver. My bunts with driver are still plenty far which is a benefit of having a higher limit, which I have achieved through both technique and hard work getting stronger (through my practice of swinging as fast as I can and reaching new PR's only at this time).

 

It does happen and I can prove it with LM data just like Rosco if desired.

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> @Rosco1216 said:

> > @LICC said:

> >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Rosco1216 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @kolomoia said:

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Based on the best tracking information that we have, his distance numbers did not go up. Talk about second hand statements on clubhead speed all you want, his distance didn't materially change.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am going to see if I can better understand your position. Could you please answer these so I can better understand?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Do you believe that golf related fitness(of any kind) designed to add speed doesn't work?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Depending on your answer to 1, do you believe only that tour players can't gain speed from golf related fitness designed to add speed?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If yes to 2, can you elaborate why you believe that?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Have you yourself tried to add speed via some form of fitness measure?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Can you explain if you have an agenda here. Are you trying to downplay the impact of golf fitness as it relates to the club head speed and distance players can achieve today vs players of yesteryear?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to ferret out a reasonable discussion with you. In the other thread you were so all over the place with your point of view that I am giving you another chance to clarify it. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding this whole time, perhaps not.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1- No, I do not believe that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2- No. I believe that general strength training does not result in significant added distance for Tour pros.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 3- N/A

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 4- I am a recreational golfer. I exercise and work out for general health. I also have very good distance for a recreational golfer and have added distance through improving my swing, not from strength training.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 5- I have no agenda. Do you? Are you a trainer that focuses on golfers so you are adamant in pushing the view that strength training will increase distance so you can have more clients?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I was precisely clear on the other thread. No one else had any issues understanding my arguments.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > No I am not a personal trainer, I am a person that went on a solo endeavor that proved to me what can be done. I am just a amateur that wanted to see what he could do to increase distance. I changed my swing but stalled out speed increase wise. I have since become much stronger from the practice of that swing and have increase speed and distance even more and very significantly. So when you are so sure of yourself that it does nothing for tour players, but when I have demonstrated success with it and I have seen it work for many other people and significantly so, we are going to clash on this.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You have a sunk cost bias affecting your view. That's fine. I'm glad it worked for you. Hard to say how much fitness helped vs just practicing your swing more. You had mentioned on another thread that you gained 10 mph in clubhead speed. That doesn't come from fitness training. That can come from starting out as a beginner with bad technique and eventually developing a much better swing, with certain speed fitness training perhaps helping at the margin.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > LICC: I wish I could post in here what I wrote in the other thread about my experience and gains. Too lazy to re-write but I’d like to see what you say to try and debunk my experience.

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No way pal, you just learned to swing better/faster. Anyone can swing it 130 +if they practiced enough. No doubt in my mind.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Again, you ( @Rosco1216 ) are claiming to have faster clubhead speed than most every Tour pro. It's amazing that we have so many freakishly rare athletes posting on this forum!

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > The average driving distance for recreational golfers is about 220 yards with an average clubhead speed around 95. Anything over 115mph puts you in the 99th percentile. The average driver clubhead speed for a Div. 1 NCAA golfer is about 114mph. This notion that lots of golfers can hit it 300+ and have 130 mph clubhead speeds is silly. Two people here claim they are in the top 1%ile in speed and distance. Ok, Even if so, your situations are the rare exception and I have seen nothing to believe that 99.5% of golfers can gain 10mph and 30 yards by fitness training. I'll chalk it up to accepting the claims of the two people here who say they have freakishly super athletic ability.

> > >

> > > There have been hundreds of threads with misinformed guys who try to use statistics and tour pros in distance arguments.

> > >

> > > The average “golfer” of 220 includes seniors who are decades from their prime and guys who are like Phillip Seymour Hoffman making it rain on the basketball court in Along Came Polly.

> > >

> > > I’ve been in lots of discussions about distance and working out and such. Early on I use to get defensive when guys say I’m a liar or I don’t how far I truly hit it. I participate in these to help guys out with experience and expertise. My video link to IG didn’t seem to work. My handle is @rc_nova

> >

> > The average driving distance for those with handicaps between 10-19 is 215 yards. The average distance for handicaps between 5-10 is 230.

> >

> > I won't challenge your actual driving distance, but I'm just saying that believing it is accepting that you are a top 1%ile golf athlete.

>

> How far I hit it and my percentile has absolutely nothing to do with the thread about strength gains correlating to distance. I posted to see how you were going to try and debunk that my strength training had nothing to do with how far I hit it now at 37 years vs when I was in my “prime”.

>

> I was a plus handicap golfer growing up, 165lbs, extremely efficient in my swing and being in the high upper 110’s. Strong for my size and very fit.

> Now 15 years later I’m 15mph faster and haven’t done any legitimate swing speed training apart from my gym workouts.

>

 

All that speed must come from the new-fangled shaft technology from 2004 to 2019. Because it sure couldn't possibly be that you are stronger and more fit in every single way that involves hitting a stationary object with a club-like instrument...

  • Like 1

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