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Have Ping "I" irons gotten progressively less forgiving?


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The MPF ratings have gone down because the COG has gone up on the "I" series irons. It is now consistently above the center of the ball. The actual MOI measurements continue to go up for the "i" ser

MPF is kind of meaningless. There are blades on that list that rank as easier than GI irons.

> @Babydaddy said: > > @bellairemi said: > > The MPF ratings have gone down because the COG has gone up on the "I" series irons. It is now consistently above the center of the ball.

> @bellairemi said:

> The MPF ratings have gone down because the COG has gone up on the "I" series irons. It is now consistently above the center of the ball. The actual MOI measurements continue to go up for the "i" series and they now have a higher MOI than some of the older G series irons.

 

Does this make them effectively harder to hit?

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> @Babydaddy said:

> > @bellairemi said:

> > The MPF ratings have gone down because the COG has gone up on the "I" series irons. It is now consistently above the center of the ball. The actual MOI measurements continue to go up for the "i" series and they now have a higher MOI than some of the older G series irons.

>

> Does this make them effectively harder to hit?

 

Depends on how you strike the ball. If you really get down and through, than a high COG can help you control trajectory. I am a picker and do not do well with high COG irons - the i210 performed poorly for me at my last fitting. Does not mean it is a poor iron but just not a good fit for me.

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No they aren't. The CG is raised so they don't go to space. I hit them very high.

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> @bellairemi said:

> > @Bubbtubbs said:

> > MPF is kind of meaningless. There are blades on that list that rank as easier than GI irons.

>

> I would agree that the MPF is not helpful. Knowing the individual measured components and how those affect your swing can be very valuable however.

 

Agree with this. Always wondered why I struggled with consistent ball striking playing i20's in the 3+ years I bagged them. Compared to another set of irons, that in theory, should have been much more problematic to play. The best strikes with the i20's required a steeper AoA than I was comfortable with, being more of a sweeper by nature. Attributed the difficulty to the high(er) bounce. When in actuality, it may well have been the VCOG I was negatively experiencing (.871 v. .783).

 

One stat in isolation does not make a club a success or failure. But I find VCOG numbers interesting for evaluation purposes. (Paying no attention to the composite MPF rating.) However, if I were considering i210's, the .913 VCOG would be a major pause for concern. And trending in the wrong direction for my swing.

 

 

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I started the year with i200’s withe CFS70 graphite and didn’t like them. Played most of the year with iE1 shafted with Xcaliber graphite liked them a lot and played well. P,aged my last 8 rounds or so with iE1 with CFS70 and like them more than those with the Xcaliber. I found the i200 to feel less solid. It’s a pretty marginal difference but it was therefor me

Ping G410 Plus 10.5°/Alta CB55 r flex
Maltby KE4 TC 5w/Xcaliber SL FW r flex

Maltby KE4 Tour 3h/Xcaliber HY r flex
Maltby KE4 Tour 4h/Xcaliber HY r flex
Maltby KE4 Tour 5h/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex
Maltby KE4 Tour+ 6-G/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex
Maltby Tricept 54° and 58°/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex
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> @Babydaddy said:

> I have i25 irons- They go high and straight for the most part. Thinking of getting i200's or 210's - MPF ratings have been going down for Ping i irons- I've read though that some people think each iteration of the I irons has gotten more forgiving in general. What are your thoughts?

>

 

The MPF rating is one person's idea of what makes a club "forgiving". This is why "forgiveness" is such a broad term in golf. What is forgiving to one person's swing, may not benefit another's swing. The Ping I series does seem to be designed more for people who do not need any help getting the ball in the air, and some iterations even seem to focus on keep ball flight a touch lower. Having higher CG in a cavity back will start to mimic a blade's

playing characteristics, whereas a low on the face hit will never really get air-born. Someone who is fairly steep and has a tendency to miss a little high on the face might find the i210 to be extremely forgiving. Someone like me, who's miss is generally on the bottom grooves may find them a little harsh, more demanding and less "forgiving".

 

This is why I think it is silly for a weekend golfer to limit themselves to one brand. Since there are so many different club designs now, and each design may vary the playing characteristics slightly, why would you handicap yourself by sticking to a certain brand, when there might be something out there that fits your game better. I know with PING one of the things I have heard the most is " I just like the way a PING looks". But the reason they might like the look is because it is familiar, not because it is better for them.

If you are a great ball striker then these differences will seem smaller. But if you are not a great ball striker and you really want to maximize your scoring ability, what "looks" or "feels" best may not actually be what performs best for your swing.

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> @1Mordrid1 said:

>The MPF rating is one person's idea of what makes a club "forgiving".

 

It's not forgiveness being rated. It's "playability." :)

 

Forgiveness is really measured by MOI

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft pending); 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, DGS400; Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Ram Watson Scoring System 55*, DGX 7i shaft; Ram TG-898, DGS400; Ram TG-898, NV105 S; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS300; Ram 1982 Commemorative Nickel 58*, Dynamic S; Ram TW282, DGS; Ram TW276, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 58*, Dynamic S; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, DGS400; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, NV105 S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional or TaylorMade TP5

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I recently switched from Cobra Amp Cells to Ping i25. They are the easiest and most forgiving clubs that I have ever played. They are a progressive offset set and with the long irons you can tell, but down on the wedges they are players clubs. I love them.

Driver:  Mizuno ST 180 11.5u* w Kuro Kage Silver TiNi DC 60g S Shaft
Irons/Wedges:   Ping Rapture 2 iron w Ping CFS Soft Stepped Stiff Shaft
                             Ping i25 4-UW w Ping AWT 2.0 X-Shafts, SW/LW Ping AWT 2.0 Wedge flex shafts                           
Grips:  Lamkin UTx Midsize Black
Putter:  Bastain Milled Fusion Golf Prototype 1 of 1
Putter Shaft/Grip:   Flow Neck - Custom DTG Smoke Shaft @ 33" w Lamkin Sink Skinny Blue

                                         Plumbers Neck - Custom PX 5.5 shaft @ 32.5"w Super Stroke Traxion GT 1.0

Ball:  Callaway Diablo Tour 3-Piece

Bag: 2020 Ping Hoofer Lite

Glove: MG DynaGrip Elite

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> @NRJyzr said:

> > @1Mordrid1 said:

> >The MPF rating is one person's idea of what makes a club "forgiving".

>

> It's not forgiveness being rated. It's "playability." :)

>

> Forgiveness is really measured by MOI

 

Semantics. In the context of golf, a less difficult to play iron would be considered more "forgiving". A more difficult iron to play would be less "forgiving". You can call it MPF, forgiveness, or rainbows and unicorns, it does not change what the MPF is trying to quantify. His formula is just trying to quantify it on more than just a simple MOI#.

 

 

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> @1Mordrid1 said:

> > @NRJyzr said:

> > > @1Mordrid1 said:

> > >The MPF rating is one person's idea of what makes a club "forgiving".

> >

> > It's not forgiveness being rated. It's "playability." :)

> >

> > Forgiveness is really measured by MOI

>

> Semantics. In the context of golf, a less difficult to play iron would be considered more "forgiving". A more difficult iron to play would be less "forgiving". You can call it MPF, forgiveness, or rainbows and unicorns, it does not change what the MPF is trying to quantify. His formula is just trying to quantify it on more than just a simple MOI#.

Yes and No. The amount of twisting on off-centre hits and it's impact is much closer to universal for all golfers. I think the MOI number is pretty simple to compare across heads and you know what it means for your off-centre strikes. The other factors are much more swing/player dependent and how much they are going to hurt any one person could vary. There may be some general correlation among the other factors but I don't think it's as clear cut.

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MPF does not take into account how much higher these newer thin-faced irons launch. If these clubs had a traditionally low COG, they would launch too high and lose distance. The newer ones are actually far more forgiving in terms of MOI.

 

MPF strongly favors a long blade length (higher C dimension measurement) and a low and deep COG. I don’t like long blades and a low COG only matters for me with blades or one-piece cavity backs. It all depends on the club. I would rank the i200/210 as very playable, not any different to me than a G or G410, only I prefer the more compact shape of the i series.

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> @dmeeksDC said:

> MPF does not take into account how much higher these newer thin-faced irons launch. If these clubs had a traditionally low COG, they would launch too high and lose distance. The newer ones are actually far more forgiving in terms of MOI.

>

> MPF strongly favors a long blade length (higher C dimension measurement) and a low and deep COG. I don’t like long blades and a low COG only matters for me with blades or one-piece cavity backs. It all depends on the club. I would rank the i200/210 as very playable, not any different to me than a G or G410, only I prefer the more compact shape of the i series.

 

Very good point about the launch not being taken into account!

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> @1Mordrid1 said:

> > @NRJyzr said:

> > > @1Mordrid1 said:

> > >The MPF rating is one person's idea of what makes a club "forgiving".

> >

> > It's not forgiveness being rated. It's "playability." :)

> >

> > Forgiveness is really measured by MOI

>

> Semantics. In the context of golf, a less difficult to play iron would be considered more "forgiving". A more difficult iron to play would be less "forgiving". You can call it MPF, forgiveness, or rainbows and unicorns, it does not change what the MPF is trying to quantify. His formula is just trying to quantify it on more than just a simple MOI#.

>

>

 

 

@agolf1 already hit it, but I'm posting anyway. LOL

 

There's a distinct difference between playability and forgiveness, which becomes a bit more apparent when one looks at the MPF final score formula, which rates C Dimension and CG height as the two primary points. MOI has a considerably lesser influence.

 

Low CG, some distance from the hosel. That's the Maltby Way. :)

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft pending); 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, DGS400; Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Ram Watson Scoring System 55*, DGX 7i shaft; Ram TG-898, DGS400; Ram TG-898, NV105 S; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS300; Ram 1982 Commemorative Nickel 58*, Dynamic S; Ram TW282, DGS; Ram TW276, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 58*, Dynamic S; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, DGS400; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, NV105 S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional or TaylorMade TP5

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I think Ping is always striving to make each generation of irons more forgiving while at the same time making them look more pleasing. I was out at Ping Canada several years ago speaking with one of the reps who told me that the then current i200 was more forgiving than the G20. So I think with the i-series, every generation which came after the i15 has had more of a players look to it, but that's my opinion. But according to Ping, each time they release an i-series or G-series iron, it will be more user friendly than the previous generation.

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> @Tommyj said:

> I think Ping is always striving to make each generation of irons more forgiving while at the same time making them look more pleasing. I was out at Ping Canada several years ago speaking with one of the reps who told me that the then current i200 was more forgiving than the G20. So I think with the i-series, every generation which came after the i15 has had more of a players look to it, but that's my opinion. But according to Ping, each time they release an i-series or G-series iron, it will be more user friendly than the previous generation.

 

And the i15s were such an improvement from the i10. Those things were mother-in-law unforgiving.

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> @mantan said:

> > @Tommyj said:

> > I think Ping is always striving to make each generation of irons more forgiving while at the same time making them look more pleasing. I was out at Ping Canada several years ago speaking with one of the reps who told me that the then current i200 was more forgiving than the G20. So I think with the i-series, every generation which came after the i15 has had more of a players look to it, but that's my opinion. But according to Ping, each time they release an i-series or G-series iron, it will be more user friendly than the previous generation.

>

> And the i15s were such an improvement from the i10. Those things were mother-in-law unforgiving.

 

hated the i10's

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I have only recently become a Ping guy but I have read and watched many interviews from Ping execs/Ping pros/and clubfitters/club testers(Shiels, Crossfield) and they have all said that Ping refuses to release unless there is an improvement in what they already have. I think that is admirable. Not a new line because of a different color badge or different paint fill.

Driver:  Mizuno ST 180 11.5u* w Kuro Kage Silver TiNi DC 60g S Shaft
Irons/Wedges:   Ping Rapture 2 iron w Ping CFS Soft Stepped Stiff Shaft
                             Ping i25 4-UW w Ping AWT 2.0 X-Shafts, SW/LW Ping AWT 2.0 Wedge flex shafts                           
Grips:  Lamkin UTx Midsize Black
Putter:  Bastain Milled Fusion Golf Prototype 1 of 1
Putter Shaft/Grip:   Flow Neck - Custom DTG Smoke Shaft @ 33" w Lamkin Sink Skinny Blue

                                         Plumbers Neck - Custom PX 5.5 shaft @ 32.5"w Super Stroke Traxion GT 1.0

Ball:  Callaway Diablo Tour 3-Piece

Bag: 2020 Ping Hoofer Lite

Glove: MG DynaGrip Elite

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> @mantan said:

> > @Tommyj said:

> > I think Ping is always striving to make each generation of irons more forgiving while at the same time making them look more pleasing. I was out at Ping Canada several years ago speaking with one of the reps who told me that the then current i200 was more forgiving than the G20. So I think with the i-series, every generation which came after the i15 has had more of a players look to it, but that's my opinion. But according to Ping, each time they release an i-series or G-series iron, it will be more user friendly than the previous generation.

>

> And the i15s were such an improvement from the i10. Those things were mother-in-law unforgiving.

 

I have played the i15's(4yrs), i25's(2yrs), i200(10 rounds) and iE1(1yr) and the i15's are by far the most forgiving followed by the iE1. My favourites are the i25(I still have my set) and I liked the i200 the least, as I said earlier I found them harder to hit solid. I put it down to being more of a picker and hitting thin at times. Of course the i25 should be the worse of the lot(highest cog) but I didn't find them to be. Go figure.

Ping G410 Plus 10.5°/Alta CB55 r flex
Maltby KE4 TC 5w/Xcaliber SL FW r flex

Maltby KE4 Tour 3h/Xcaliber HY r flex
Maltby KE4 Tour 4h/Xcaliber HY r flex
Maltby KE4 Tour 5h/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex
Maltby KE4 Tour+ 6-G/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex
Maltby Tricept 54° and 58°/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex
Mizuno Bettinardi C06

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