Stack and Tilt recent convert

[mattster]

Ive read the various threads on S&T on this forum but would appreciate comments as regards the following...

THIS IS NOT A QUERY ON THE MERITS OF S&T... I can play 3 different swings quite competently (PPGS, rotational and my homegrown one) but Im having dramatic improvements / consistency with S&T

 

1. The 55:45 weighting... does anyone increase this? To me if feels and works better to have significantly more ”left hip forward” at address while keeping head/sternum/centered Im guessing I go about 75:25 weighting... helps me not bend to the left on takeaway and achieve a better stacking... any advice/comments please?

2. My misses tend to be a hook...not wildly left but more than the natural draw and increasingly left as ballflight progresses.. I figure its when I dont bump enough or quickly enough...??

3. S&T seems to downplay posture as a fundamental?... My experience is Just like for all other swings I find posture is indeed critical for S&T... You must have hands close to thighs(viewed DTL) at set-up in other words no reaching...another poster on this forum referred to “arms straight” as being more at “45degrees” than the usual “hanging straight down”.... It seems that if I keep my arms hanging close to my thighs at set up, pressing down a bit (per hendrik stenson) it keeps elbows closer and a feeling of connectedness and promotes a better turn ... does this fit with anyone elses experience as a drill? It does feel a bit more stiff and not loose/fluid but I like the more stable feel and results - observations? Any ideas from other S&T ers?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mattster]

Note : By “bend to the left” I mentioned above I dont mean the slight left tilt at top of BS I mean it helps avoid the whole upper torso moving over to the left during BS

[pinhigh27]

take a lesson. and no you cannot play 3 swings competently.

[mattster]

Well thats really a constructive post..

 

Youve got over 9700 posts. This was my first... makes me wonder what % of yours were trolling other OP’s

 

Raises a series of questions about you PinHigh or maybe Ill just put it down to you had a VERY bad day on the course today

 

Me I shot 6 over my PB and I had my first eagle and I was only using S&T for the second time based on guidance I read on this forum and youtube

 

Given that I play COMPETENTLY to a 14,3 Cap I had a really great day... not ruined by you.

[jut111]

Thanks for the lol’s Matt.

[gentles]

> @mattster said:

> Well thats really a constructive post..

>

> Youve got over 9700 posts. This was my first... makes me wonder what % of yours were trolling other OP’s

>

> Raises a series of questions about you PinHigh or maybe Ill just put it down to you had a VERY bad day on the course today

>

> Me I shot 6 over my PB and I had my first eagle and I was only using S&T for the second time based on guidance I read on this forum and youtube

>

> Given that I play COMPETENTLY to a 14,3 Cap I had a really great day... not ruined by you.

 

At this risk of throwing fuel on the fire...Tiger Woods takes 2 years to make a swing change, and he is is spending 8+ hours a day making the change to make a transition. And even then he had the same miss with driver throughout his career (big block to the right)

 

I've played a decent amount of tournament golf and I've never come across a player who has more than one style of swing.

 

OP, your questions are almost impossible to answer without videos...you will definitely get better responses if you show a video of your "S&T" swing. Otherwise what you're describing might only be "feels" rather than than what is really happening.

[ebrasmus21]

Matt - one heck of a first post. Congratulations my internet friend.

[Krt22]

Dollars to donuts all 3 swings look relatively the same

[MonteScheinblum]

He wasn’t trolling. You can’t play 3 swings competently. Not an any level.

[Nickc]

I have at least 90 different swings and that is in one round!

[smoothie4896]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/a451e58b31bd6e315fa07f4515f6a48f/tenor.gif?itemid=5689634

 

[Krt22]

> @Nickc said:

> I have at least 90 different swings and that is in one round!

 

Even though I know you are joking, this is something that just doesnt happen. Realistically even a bad golfer's swing is exactly the same, there are just 90 different outcomes based on how well one executes their compensations

[mattster]

Thanks to those with some amusing and enjoyable feedback...

 

But noone has replied at all to my S&T query? I can totally take informed constructive feedback on that and yes of course I would in time go to a certified S&T lesson but isnt the point of this forum to share and learn and in my experience “there are no stupid questions”?

 

Im not a millenial snowflake so not wounded and no need to overkill “the troll or not to troll” topic ...but is this a forum only for scratch, + or professional golfers?

 

For clarification of course I am not CURRENTLY playing with 3 diff swings... actually due to the fact that I dont have the natural ability to work my hips like a golf pro (read belly dancer) and IMO most Amateurs dont and never will (just ask them about their divots and they will admit they never take one)...I therefore have explored different swings and got competent in them to play them to a consistent 14CAP... note I said competent I didnt say ACCOMPLISHED... Its like my running I come in the 3rd quartile always will but I complete the distance... or put another way I am “competent” to do a marathon in around 4,5 hours - sucks to be me...

Oh by the way I havent got 3 running styles... just an over the top running motion... must be these #*% seized up hips of mine....

 

[Krt22]

S&T for the most part is not really widely discussed here, so that might limit your actual responses. In general its hard to answer questions without video as well, because 9 times out of 10 what someone thinks they are doing and what they are actually doing are not the same

 

Most ams don't have hip action like pros because they simply move incorrectly, not that the pros have some innate natural ability that us mere mortals lack.

[Zitlow]

> @mattster said:

> Ive read the various threads on S&T on this forum but would appreciate comments as regards the following...

> THIS IS NOT A QUERY ON THE MERITS OF S&T... I can play 3 different swings quite competently (PPGS, rotational and my homegrown one) but Im having dramatic improvements / consistency with S&T

>

> 1. The 55:45 weighting... does anyone increase this? To me if feels and works better to have significantly more ”left hip forward” at address while keeping head/sternum/centered Im guessing I go about 75:25 weighting... helps me not bend to the left on takeaway and achieve a better stacking... any advice/comments please?

> 2. My misses tend to be a hook...not wildly left but more than the natural draw and increasingly left as ballflight progresses.. I figure its when I dont bump enough or quickly enough...??

> 3. S&T seems to downplay posture as a fundamental?... My experience is Just like for all other swings I find posture is indeed critical for S&T... You must have hands close to thighs(viewed DTL) at set-up in other words no reaching...another poster on this forum referred to “arms straight” as being more at “45degrees” than the usual “hanging straight down”.... It seems that if I keep my arms hanging close to my thighs at set up, pressing down a bit (per hendrik stenson) it keeps elbows closer and a feeling of connectedness and promotes a better turn ... does this fit with anyone elses experience as a drill? It does feel a bit more stiff and not loose/fluid but I like the more stable feel and results - observations? Any ideas from other S&T ers?

>

> Thanks

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

Welcome to the forum. I have a friend who hangs on his left leg and side but his weight pressure is equally dispersed if that makes sense.

 

 

 

[BB28403]

I took S&T lessons. As a beginner they helped a lot a few years ago. I have since just taken all the good tips I hear around and integrate them. I guess my swing now is more traditional.

 

I recommend S&T although there is a terrible stigma attached to it. It is simple to learn. Watch that guy on YouTube that taught it, he moved on to Golf Tec in Asia though.

[SteelyDan]

Matt, you may want to join the S&T Facebook Group. Various high profile instructors are around there and even Andy Plummer. Many of them give free advice.

[kobe123]

Please post a video of your 3 swings. I want to see the difference in all 3.

 

Thanks.

[scooterhd2]

I have 3 swings, and usually play the one that works best on the range in the morning. I dont claim any of them to be played competently though. One is a stacked setup with a lot of knee bend like Keegan Bradley.

[cmb71]

> @smoothie4896 said:

> https://media1.tenor.com/images/a451e58b31bd6e315fa07f4515f6a48f/tenor.gif?itemid=5689634

>

 

Ruprecht!!!! No!!!

[ebrasmus21]

I feel like I have two swings that I perform incompetently 1) where I set my wrists improperly and 2) where I set my wrists properly but still mess up.

 

Golf is hard.

[mattster]

Thanks for the feedback and advice guys..

 

To clarify further - see definition of “competent” - I meant #2 as satisfactory to play the game to a 14Cap

1. having the necessary ability, knowledge, or skill to do something successfully.

2. acceptable and satisfactory though not outstanding

 

BUT In my journey I want to be good at golf... I decided ball striking is the key and most enjoyable part of the game (IMO putting well is not enough if you cant hit your GIR) and I dream of being “accomplished”... the consistency improvement for me from S&T increased my balance, ballstriking, consistency and GIR.

 

If the questions are genuine interest about having tried 3 swings I will post my experience and perhaps (although Im reticent given my experience from one post and using the word competent tondo so) Ill post a few videos

 

I was primarily looking for advice feedback and to test ideas.. I tried all sorts if swings to learn and get better what the hell is wrong with that?? Geez? this thread makes me feel like Im on the back foot defending myself - the opposite of S&T ?

[davep043]

@mattster , welcome to the forum. One of the first things I learned about swings and instruction is that what you feel is almost certainly not the same as what you are actually doing. Two different people might be doing the exact same thing, and describe their feels completely differently. That's why so many of the responses have asked for video, they want to help you based on the reality of your swing, not based on your (probably inaccurate) descriptions.

 

> @mattster said:

> I tried all sorts if swings to learn and get better what the **** is wrong with that?? Geez? this thread makes me feel like Im on the back foot defending myself - the opposite of S&T ?

 

I don't mean to attack you, but the idea of trying different swings on your own is generally not a good one. You need your own swing, whether its modeled on S&T principles or another "system" or whether its based simply on good mechanics. The best way to improve your swing is through good instruction and proper practice. Good instruction will be based on your REAL swing, not on what you feel like you're doing.

[Etzwane]

> 2. My misses tend to be a hook...not wildly left but more than the natural draw and increasingly left as ballflight progresses.. I figure its when I dont bump enough or quickly enough...??

 

If this is push-hook (starts right but overdraws) you will make it worse by sliding more as it favors in-to-out.

 

> 3. S&T seems to downplay posture as a fundamental?... My experience is Just like for all other swings I find posture is indeed critical for S&T... You must have hands close to thighs(viewed DTL) at set-up in other words no reaching...another poster on this forum referred to “arms straight” as being more at “45degrees” than the usual “hanging straight down”.... It seems that if I keep my arms hanging close to my thighs at set up, pressing down a bit (per hendrik stenson) it keeps elbows closer and a feeling of connectedness and promotes a better turn ... does this fit with anyone elses experience as a drill? It does feel a bit more stiff and not loose/fluid but I like the more stable feel and results - observations? Any ideas from other S&T ers?

>

 

This whole business with fundamentals is a bit overplayed in my opinion (and yes, I'm also doing S&T). They say it's not a fundamental because not everyone needs to have the same posture (as opposite to everyone needs to hit ball-then-turf) but of course you need to find the best posture for your body type and athletic abilities.

 

[mattster]

Thanks Dave Etzwane and other respondents

 

Ill take your comments in board and value them...

 

I have some differing views on some of the comments...and I have always filmed my swing as the basis for self assessment and learning so Im not imagining... I know I have a problem TRULY executing the correct hip turn.. slight lateral shift(overlooked in much teaching) ...and full clearance left through and up- Monte’s excellent video showing the initial “opening of the left side of the hip”( for want of a better description)is awesome... makes sense... I can do it static in the mirror... during a swing forget it... some of us just arent as talented/athletic...

 

Finally because someone is a high 14 Handicap it doesnt mean they dont have some useful insight/understanding of the golf swing (or 3 golf swings they have learnt!) and a newbie poster on any forum isn’t necessarily unqualified to add value... I would argue many single figure/pro golfers never did and can never understand or relate to the journey of us mere mortals... maybe some of us could have been even more helpful explaining how we got from a 24 to a 14 and then miraculously occassionally started hitting 8-10 GIR and shooting (even once a 6 over)??? Even if that feedback was just to explain the difficulty and a more competent golf pro provides added advice?

Example IMO Just the don trahan PPGS swing I learnt is awesome for older/injured guys... v limited turn, a hip bump and no twisting of old injured spines and knees... Ik sure thats blasphemy on here as well?

 

Majority of Ams I see dont swing anything close to even an average or repeatable swing - falling backwards, never take a proper divot, cant get the ball up in the air, dont ever use their pitch repair tool... what does that say for the golf training industry

 

Anyway I did feel I could share some interesting other perspectives but Im sure not wanted here..

 

I will close off in saying I read many hours of excellent advice on this forum, huge respect for Montes videos and many other insights... but I believe in more open mindedness... new ideas and some humility in a learning environment

[Forged4ever]

> @mattster said:

> Well thats really a constructive post..

>

> Youve got over 9700 posts. This was my first... makes me wonder what % of yours were trolling other OP’s

>

> Raises a series of questions about you PinHigh or maybe Ill just put it down to you had a VERY bad day on the course today

>

> Me I shot 6 over my PB and I had my first eagle and I was only using S&T for the second time based on guidance I read on this forum and youtube

>

> Given that I play COMPETENTLY to a 14,3 Cap I had a really great day... not ruined by you.

 

First, welcome to the board Matt?

 

Secondly, just as in the club or course that that you play out of, on this board you will find myriad personalities and guys have different ways and tones of making their points. I’m sort of an IT idiot and I much prefer the real world to the virtual, though be that as it may, here I am, lol. The one thing that I would tell someone new to the community is if and when they post something that draws a negative, doubting or sarcastic response, first, put their ego aside, and this is very very difficult for most males to do, especially the more insecure that they are, and look at the comment/response in question and determine if there is any merit or truth in it!

 

If there is not, ignore it and move on. One of the greatest pieces of advice that one of my Mentors gave me when I was young was to think, process & weigh heavily before responding to someone, regardless of the medium, because “to acknowledge is to give credibility.” You may not think so however it does. ALWAYS!! To get the “last word” in is the action of an insecure individual and a waste of time.

 

That being said, please do not immediately drop the “troll” or “hate/hater” words just because someone disagrees with your point of view/opinion or has something negative to say about them.

 

Pin is not a troll. I most certainly do not agree with him on every point or or opinion that he posts, however he is a Player, he knows the swing and he knows the game. Even when I’ve disagreed with him, there was truth/fact in his post(s), I just may have seen it from a different side, neither right or wrongly, just different.

 

I happen to agree with him on his point and he actually wasn’t rude at all, merely stating his opinion, blunt as it may be.

 

My opinion is based off of the simple fact that having Played at a competitive Plus(+2.8) prior to medical/health issues getting in the way, and while I could show up to a course with any one of my three games, A, B or C, I could no more “competitively” Play three swings than I could walk across the water in the pond to the right of our #16 green, lol.

 

Granted, you’re a mid-cap, and one’s definition of “competitive” is indeed objective, however I think that Pin’s statement/post is one of the most accurate in this thread, and mirrors what any Teacher that I know, and I know a few, would say to you if ya told em that.

 

I also would follow his advice regarding finding a good Teacher!

 

I haven’t always liked the messenger, nor have I liked their message, however I’ve lost count of the number of times that after looking at and analyzing their message devoid of ego, emotions & pride, I benefitted from acting on part or all of their message.

 

As far as your swing goes, I’m not a Pro nor Teacher so I steer clear of physical swing advice, lol

 

Ya wanna talk about the mental side of the game, I’ll join the discussion?

 

Stay well Matt and all the Best with your swing and game ?

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️

RP

[Zitlow]

> @Forged4ever said:

> > @mattster said:

> > Well thats really a constructive post..

> >

> > Youve got over 9700 posts. This was my first... makes me wonder what % of yours were trolling other OP’s

> >

> > Raises a series of questions about you PinHigh or maybe Ill just put it down to you had a VERY bad day on the course today

> >

> > Me I shot 6 over my PB and I had my first eagle and I was only using S&T for the second time based on guidance I read on this forum and youtube

> >

> > Given that I play COMPETENTLY to a 14,3 Cap I had a really great day... not ruined by you.

>

> First, welcome to the board Matt?

>

> Secondly, just as in the club or course that that you play out of, on this board you will find myriad personalities and guys have different ways and tones of making their points. I’m sort of an IT idiot and I much prefer the real world to the virtual, though be that as it may, here I am, lol. The one thing that I would tell someone new to the community is if and when they post something that draws a negative, doubting or sarcastic response, first, put their ego aside, and this is very very difficult for most males to do, especially the more insecure that they are, and look at the comment/response in question and determine if there is any merit or truth in it!

>

> If there is not, ignore it and move on. One of the greatest pieces of advice that one of my Mentors gave me when I was young was to think, process & weigh heavily before responding to someone, regardless of the medium, because “to acknowledge is to give credibility.” You may not think so however it does. ALWAYS!! To get the “last word” in is the action of an insecure individual and a waste of time.

>

> That being said, please do not immediately drop the “troll” or “hate/hater” words just because someone disagrees with your point of view/opinion or has something negative to say about them.

>

> Pin is not a troll. I most certainly do not agree with him on every point or or opinion that he posts, however he is a Player, he knows the swing and he knows the game. Even when I’ve disagreed with him, there was truth/fact in his post(s), I just may have seen it from a different side, neither right or wrongly, just different.

>

> I happen to agree with him on his point and he actually wasn’t rude at all, merely stating his opinion, blunt as it may be.

>

> My opinion is based off of the simple fact that having Played at a competitive Plus(+2.8) prior to medical/health issues getting in the way, and while I could show up to a course with any one of my three games, A, B or C, I could no more “competitively” Play three swings than I could walk across the water in the pond to the right of our #16 green, lol.

>

> Granted, you’re a mid-cap, and one’s definition of “competitive” is indeed objective, however I think that Pin’s statement/post is one of the most accurate in this thread, and mirrors what any Teacher that I know, and I know a few, would say to you if ya told em that.

>

> I also would follow his advice regarding finding a good Teacher!

>

> I haven’t always liked the messenger, nor have I liked their message, however I’ve lost count of the number of times that after looking at and analyzing their message devoid of ego, emotions & pride, I benefitted from acting on part or all of their message.

>

> As far as your swing goes, I’m not a Pro nor Teacher so I steer clear of physical swing advice, lol

>

> Ya wanna talk about the mental side of the game, I’ll join the discussion?

>

> Stay well Matt and all the Best with your swing and game ?

>

> Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️

> RP

 

Nice post. I like reading different opinions about the golf swing especially when I was struggling. You've posted about Sam Snead which is interesting. The game changer for me was when I learned to use my hands and feet to work the tool.

[Forged4ever]

> @Zitlow said:

> > @Forged4ever said:

> > > @mattster said:

> > > Well thats really a constructive post..

> > >

> > > Youve got over 9700 posts. This was my first... makes me wonder what % of yours were trolling other OP’s

> > >

> > > Raises a series of questions about you PinHigh or maybe Ill just put it down to you had a VERY bad day on the course today

> > >

> > > Me I shot 6 over my PB and I had my first eagle and I was only using S&T for the second time based on guidance I read on this forum and youtube

> > >

> > > Given that I play COMPETENTLY to a 14,3 Cap I had a really great day... not ruined by you.

> >

> > First, welcome to the board Matt?

> >

> > Secondly, just as in the club or course that that you play out of, on this board you will find myriad personalities and guys have different ways and tones of making their points. I’m sort of an IT idiot and I much prefer the real world to the virtual, though be that as it may, here I am, lol. The one thing that I would tell someone new to the community is if and when they post something that draws a negative, doubting or sarcastic response, first, put their ego aside, and this is very very difficult for most males to do, especially the more insecure that they are, and look at the comment/response in question and determine if there is any merit or truth in it!

> >

> > If there is not, ignore it and move on. One of the greatest pieces of advice that one of my Mentors gave me when I was young was to think, process & weigh heavily before responding to someone, regardless of the medium, because “to acknowledge is to give credibility.” You may not think so however it does. ALWAYS!! To get the “last word” in is the action of an insecure individual and a waste of time.

> >

> > That being said, please do not immediately drop the “troll” or “hate/hater” words just because someone disagrees with your point of view/opinion or has something negative to say about them.

> >

> > Pin is not a troll. I most certainly do not agree with him on every point or or opinion that he posts, however he is a Player, he knows the swing and he knows the game. Even when I’ve disagreed with him, there was truth/fact in his post(s), I just may have seen it from a different side, neither right or wrongly, just different.

> >

> > I happen to agree with him on his point and he actually wasn’t rude at all, merely stating his opinion, blunt as it may be.

> >

> > My opinion is based off of the simple fact that having Played at a competitive Plus(+2.8) prior to medical/health issues getting in the way, and while I could show up to a course with any one of my three games, A, B or C, I could no more “competitively” Play three swings than I could walk across the water in the pond to the right of our #16 green, lol.

> >

> > Granted, you’re a mid-cap, and one’s definition of “competitive” is indeed objective, however I think that Pin’s statement/post is one of the most accurate in this thread, and mirrors what any Teacher that I know, and I know a few, would say to you if ya told em that.

> >

> > I also would follow his advice regarding finding a good Teacher!

> >

> > I haven’t always liked the messenger, nor have I liked their message, however I’ve lost count of the number of times that after looking at and analyzing their message devoid of ego, emotions & pride, I benefitted from acting on part or all of their message.

> >

> > As far as your swing goes, I’m not a Pro nor Teacher so I steer clear of physical swing advice, lol

> >

> > Ya wanna talk about the mental side of the game, I’ll join the discussion?

> >

> > Stay well Matt and all the Best with your swing and game ?

> >

> > Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️

> > RP

>

> Nice post. I like reading different opinions about the golf swing especially when I was struggling. You've posted about Sam Snead which is interesting. The game changer for me was when I learned to use my hands and feet to work the tool.

 

Thanks Z?

 

Sam would tell ya that he was lucky to have ONE swing that he could count on under pressure and if I’d have ever piped up that I had even two swings that I could count on, even as a Plus, forget three, lolol, his Bro and my Teacher, Pete, who was present when I Played at +3 to +3.2 for a six year period through the 90’s(1992-1998), would have dismissed me as a student for the 4th time, lolol??

 

Some guys do have “natural” gifts and swings, like Sam as an extreme example, however I never had that and I had to hit tens of thousands of balls both on the line & on the course in what Pete called “competitive” practice routines, where we tried as close as possible to simulating competitive pressure, which obviously, there is no substitute for the tourney pressure of a 4’ putt or the big money environment of standing 168yds from the flag looking at your next shot with your competitor’s ball already laying in front of you 6-8’ from the flag, though Pete standing there, 5-6’ to the side and behind me, clearly in my vision, and then beating a drum that he brought out from the shop at the most inopportune times, or me having to lay 9/10 balls within a pre-arranged distance from the flag or I started over until I indeed hit 9/10(this depended on one’s cap as when I was scratch to 2~, it was 8/10), allowed me to work on and master my focus, and this has always been my greatest strength as an athlete, whether it was on a football field or a golf course.

 

My only focus on a golf course was the target.

 

Not hand/body positions~

 

Not club positions~

 

Not swing mechanics~

 

THE TARGET!!

 

I blocked everything else out and trusted my body to provide the best swing that I had at that time to produce the best shot possible.

 

Obviously, some days it was better than others, however I had blind trust in my swing from hitting so many balls, and even when it might have been my C game, I had complete confidence that I would put the ball where I wanted it and put it in the hole.

 

And when I didn’t?

 

My second greatest gift is the world’s shortest memory, lolol?

 

Those days are long gone Brother, lolol

 

I was on the line with Madison last week and her phone beeped with an alert and a decade ago, she could’ve been standing behind me talking on the phone, which she actually did when we went out together to work on stuff in the evening on the course, and I was in my own world, and I didn’t even hear her.

 

Last week??

 

I had to step off and start again, lolol

 

Gettin old sucks Brother?

 

Stay well, thanks for responding and have a great Holiday Season?

 

My best,

Richard

 

 

[Zitlow]

> @Forged4ever said:

> > @Zitlow said:

> > > @Forged4ever said:

> > > > @mattster said:

> > > > Well thats really a constructive post..

> > > >

> > > > Youve got over 9700 posts. This was my first... makes me wonder what % of yours were trolling other OP’s

> > > >

> > > > Raises a series of questions about you PinHigh or maybe Ill just put it down to you had a VERY bad day on the course today

> > > >

> > > > Me I shot 6 over my PB and I had my first eagle and I was only using S&T for the second time based on guidance I read on this forum and youtube

> > > >

> > > > Given that I play COMPETENTLY to a 14,3 Cap I had a really great day... not ruined by you.

> > >

> > > First, welcome to the board Matt?

> > >

> > > Secondly, just as in the club or course that that you play out of, on this board you will find myriad personalities and guys have different ways and tones of making their points. I’m sort of an IT idiot and I much prefer the real world to the virtual, though be that as it may, here I am, lol. The one thing that I would tell someone new to the community is if and when they post something that draws a negative, doubting or sarcastic response, first, put their ego aside, and this is very very difficult for most males to do, especially the more insecure that they are, and look at the comment/response in question and determine if there is any merit or truth in it!

> > >

> > > If there is not, ignore it and move on. One of the greatest pieces of advice that one of my Mentors gave me when I was young was to think, process & weigh heavily before responding to someone, regardless of the medium, because “to acknowledge is to give credibility.” You may not think so however it does. ALWAYS!! To get the “last word” in is the action of an insecure individual and a waste of time.

> > >

> > > That being said, please do not immediately drop the “troll” or “hate/hater” words just because someone disagrees with your point of view/opinion or has something negative to say about them.

> > >

> > > Pin is not a troll. I most certainly do not agree with him on every point or or opinion that he posts, however he is a Player, he knows the swing and he knows the game. Even when I’ve disagreed with him, there was truth/fact in his post(s), I just may have seen it from a different side, neither right or wrongly, just different.

> > >

> > > I happen to agree with him on his point and he actually wasn’t rude at all, merely stating his opinion, blunt as it may be.

> > >

> > > My opinion is based off of the simple fact that having Played at a competitive Plus(+2.8) prior to medical/health issues getting in the way, and while I could show up to a course with any one of my three games, A, B or C, I could no more “competitively” Play three swings than I could walk across the water in the pond to the right of our #16 green, lol.

> > >

> > > Granted, you’re a mid-cap, and one’s definition of “competitive” is indeed objective, however I think that Pin’s statement/post is one of the most accurate in this thread, and mirrors what any Teacher that I know, and I know a few, would say to you if ya told em that.

> > >

> > > I also would follow his advice regarding finding a good Teacher!

> > >

> > > I haven’t always liked the messenger, nor have I liked their message, however I’ve lost count of the number of times that after looking at and analyzing their message devoid of ego, emotions & pride, I benefitted from acting on part or all of their message.

> > >

> > > As far as your swing goes, I’m not a Pro nor Teacher so I steer clear of physical swing advice, lol

> > >

> > > Ya wanna talk about the mental side of the game, I’ll join the discussion?

> > >

> > > Stay well Matt and all the Best with your swing and game ?

> > >

> > > Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️

> > > RP

> >

> > Nice post. I like reading different opinions about the golf swing especially when I was struggling. You've posted about Sam Snead which is interesting. The game changer for me was when I learned to use my hands and feet to work the tool.

>

> Thanks Z?

>

> Sam would tell ya that he was lucky to have ONE swing that he could count on under pressure and if I’d have ever piped up that I had even two swings that I could count on, even as a Plus, forget three, lolol, his Bro and my Teacher, Pete, who was present when I Played at +3 to +3.2 for a six year period through the 90’s(1992-1998), would have dismissed me as a student for the 4th time, lolol??

>

> Some guys do have “natural” gifts and swings, like Sam as an extreme example, however I never had that and I had to hit tens of thousands of balls both on the line & on the course in what Pete called “competitive” practice routines, where we tried as close as possible to simulating competitive pressure, which obviously, there is no substitute for the tourney pressure of a 4’ putt or the big money environment of standing 168yds from the flag looking at your next shot with your competitor’s ball already laying in front of you 6-8’ from the flag, though Pete standing there, 5-6’ to the side and behind me, clearly in my vision, and then beating a drum that he brought out from the shop at the most inopportune times, or me having to lay 9/10 balls within a pre-arranged distance from the flag or I started over until I indeed hit 9/10(this depended on one’s cap as when I was scratch to 2~, it was 8/10), allowed me to work on and master my focus, and this has always been my greatest strength as an athlete, whether it was on a football field or a golf course.

>

> My only focus on a golf course was the target.

>

> Not hand/body positions~

>

> Not club positions~

>

> Not swing mechanics~

>

> THE TARGET!!

>

> I blocked everything else out and trusted my body to provide the best swing that I had at that time to produce the best shot possible.

>

> Obviously, some days it was better than others, however I had blind trust in my swing from hitting so many balls, and even when it might have been my C game, I had complete confidence that I would put the ball where I wanted it and put it in the hole.

>

> And when I didn’t?

>

> My second greatest gift is the world’s shortest memory, lolol?

>

> Those days are long gone Brother, lolol

>

> I was on the line with Madison last week and her phone beeped with an alert and a decade ago, she could’ve been standing behind me talking on the phone, which she actually did when we went out together to work on stuff in the evening on the course, and I was in my own world, and I didn’t even hear her.

>

> Last week??

>

> I had to step off and start again, lolol

>

> Gettin old sucks Brother?

>

> Stay well, thanks for responding and have a great Holiday Season?

>

> My best,

> Richard

>

>

 

The old timers were more about motion and less about micro managing every minute aspect of the swing. Just a sidenote, I took lessons from Mike Austin at Studio City, CA. He played quite a bit with The Slammer and told an interesting story about Sam. Austin said they finished their round and Sam told him that he didn't want to play with him anymore. Austin said,"Why? Do I stink?" Sam said no. Austin said, "do I rattle my change when you putt?". Sam said no. Austin said, "do I talk in your back swing?" Sam said no. Austin said, "what is it then?". Sam said, "we feel like we're playing in the foursome behind you."