Thoughts On External Rotation of Trail Shoulder

[North Texas]

Hopefully I can make sense with what I'm asking.

I get the concept of external rotation. My question is this. Is there something you can do in your backswing or transition that would make this external rotation easier to do more automatically? Versus just simply saying, okay at the start of your downswing, externally rotate your trail shoulder. In other words, what helps facilitate the external rotation prior to the point that you should do it?

My thinking on this is along the lines of that you often hear someone say that to fix a swing flaw you have to first fix what is causing the swing flaw. So to externally rotate can you focus on what happens prior to when you should externally rotate in order give yourself a better chance to do it?

Again, sorry if this doesn't make sense. I just don't know any other way to words. Thanks for any insight, thoughts, or observations.

 

[glk]

Have the shoulder neutral to a bit internally rotated in the backswing - avoid having a lot of external in the backswing so that you haven’t maxed out the rom - likely one will go internal in this case.

 

[stingerfade]

Throwing a ball or a rock or even one handed swings I find this move to be automatic. When I attach my left arm to a club and try it the opposite is automatic. Maybe there’s something to the movement of left arm that can help?

[glk]

Iteach told me he likes neutral where trail forearm matches spine angle - I occasionally check it in a mirror.

[Deadaimz]

[North Texas]

I would like to see what this looks like. Do you have a visual for this?

[Fairway14]

If the backswing is fundamentally sound then a correct downswing naturally happens.

[glk]

Best I could quickly find. Trail forearm has slight lean forward. More vertical an in er more horizontal goes into more ir.

[fjroney]

I find it has a lot to do with my wrist conditions - the more radial deviation in my lead wrist, and the more my trail hand grip gets into the fingers, the harder it is to get external trail shoulder in transition. Would experiment with and/or monitor reducing lead wrist radial and getting trial hand grip into palm and see what results look like.

As an aside, keep in mind it's not necessary to get trail shoulder external in transition - a lot of good players effectively shallow the shaft with trail shoulder internal and lead shoulder internal.

[jonsnow]

I also have had difficulty getting my trail shoulder to externally rotate on the downswing by trying to consciously do so. When I started focusing on getting my trail elbow to the ball before my hands, I found my trail shoulder rotated externally without having to consciously focus on it. This was one of a couple of concepts that had me playing the best I have in years from about mid-summer on.

 

And then I came down with plantar fasciitis...now it's been nearly a month & a half since I swung a club, much less played.

[baudi]

I like post #9.

And add very old wisdom that the shoulders are terrible leaders but admirable followers in the swing.

[Stanks]

You keep those elbows as close as possible together in the back and downswing and your shoulders should do what they're supposed to do.

[jobin]

Shoulders may be 'terrible leaders' in the downswing, but doesn't Ben Hogan tell us that the shoulders pull the hips in the backswing?

At least, that is what he told me.

[bluedot]

First of all, make sure that you have the flexibility in your shoulder to actually be able to externally rotate the needed amount. If you don't, then all the drills and practice and tips in the world aren't going to help. But the good news is that this is something that you can work on and improve relatively quickly and painlessly.

[KMeloney]

Ok, let's close the thread, then.

With all due respect, these kinds of responses are POINTLESS.

Don't you think people mostly ask the questions they do -- in the Instruction & Academy section -- to gain an understanding of something that's NOT coming naturally to them?

[Fairway14]

Well, the OP wrote "to fix a swing flaw you must first fix what is causing the swing flaw". And he is absolutely correct.

If one believes their downswing is faulty then absolutely those faults may be traced back to his/her backswing.

Regarding what "comes naturally", most all the best players use a fundamentally sound address technique (grip-posture-alignment). And from their address position their own naturally effective swing emerges.

In other words, the answer to the OP's question about how the shoulder rotates can be found by understanding his address position (grip-posture-alignment) because those three factors are influencing/dictating the way his shoulders move throughout the swing.

[KMeloney]

Ok. So now what? You still haven't offered any advice (except maybe for him to look at his set up and to figure it out on his own from there).

I apologize for singling out your post(s) here. It sounds like you may very well be able to help him with his question. I'm just hoping you go ahead and explain the relationship to the address position instead of just saying that there is one.

 

[BeerPerHole]

I have recently started to address this. For me...the feel is that I'm not letting my right elbow get trapped on the back swing. I feel more like I'm keeping the elbow in front of me, letting the shoulder rotate going back. It certainly changes the path coming into the ball as shallower for me.

[Nard_S]

Digging dirt and mats, going after proper external rotation for sometime has led me to several things.

1) Good to have proper position at the top where trail forearm is aligned with spine angle

2) Good to hold shoulders closer to true plane that is perpendicular to spine.

3)Tempo & rhythm, that is more shoulder dominate and less hands /arm controlled, good also. The muscles of the core and back trigger much.

4) A sense of stacking trail shoulder ahead of arms/hands in transition. Getting lead away from head, getting trail under it.

5) Greater appreciation of left & right bend of torso. The extension and flexion of torso and it's proper blending needs addressing.

6) A sense of straightening trail arm sooner and "throwing the yo-yo" with hands.

7) The combo of the two three above facilitates the "external rotation".

8) All above worthless if hips and legs are not doing more correct things.

9) When done well, a sense of unloading trail shoulder down with full bottom 3"-4" in front of ball while swing center of upper spine stays neutral.

10) The longer the club the harder it is to master. All this together can take a long time and many reps to do so. I'm "decent" in shorter clubs but fault line for me currently hovers around #5i-#6i.

Good luck, Pro help (which I did not use) with all this is advised.

[bulls9999]

Not sure if I've started doing this with my driver (when I pushed a few drives to the left; I'm a lefty). It's something I started playing with on the range a few times, but during this round I implemented it during play. How do I explain it, uhm, I start making my backswing with a more vertical plane over my head, but when I come down, I shallow the plane to the inside....and my drives came off with more zip, long, and straight... no more left push. The only thing I think it resembles is Furyk's swing (oh gawd no, do I look like that?), but I think that's what it resembles from the inside downswing that seems to whip the club. That's exactly it (I just looked up Furyk's swing on youtube….that's what I started doing to eliminate my left push).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTuTrpWCZhU&feature=emb_logo

 

[Jbarretta]

I was an internal trail shoulder guy working on external " waiters tray" position 

 

The only way I can do it is to focus on extending /cupping the trail wrist in the back.  It automatically put the shoulder into external 

[moehogan]

For a right hander, rotate the ENTIRE right arm clockwise starting in second half of the BS or in transition.