Online Lesson with Dan Carraher - Updated 6.6.20

[kobe123]

Yup, I use this one too!

[Krt22]

Yeah, I am still slowly putting 2 and 2 together. It really is about match ups, if you change the position at the top dramatically, how you transition needs to change accordingly. It seems like some do it seamlessly/naturally, I absolutely had to work on both ends, almost teeter tottering back and forth. If you used to roll the forearms and fan the face wide open, much of your downswing had to be built around squaring the face to recover. If you dont fan it wide open (you still 100% open the face in the back-swing, even with Dan's stick drill, you just do it later/less), then how you transition obviously needs to change as well. My swing right now feels totally foreign right now lol.

[kobe123]

I don't think I open the face in my backswing with the stick drill at all.

[Lefty_3Jack]

That's where you're missing it. You can't go out and consciously use a "swing" like it's a tool. You've got to go play golf. My backswing when working on the drill is much more exaggerated than when I'm trying to hit a ball to a target. The exaggeration moves the needle of my "game swing" slightly with regards to the "steepness" of the backswing.

[stingerfade]

been working on the stick drill for a year!! Problem is with the stick no problem performing the correct move off the ball. Take the stick away I just revert back to the roll....minimized but still there.

I finally found a feel for me that works wonders. If you notice when you roll your hands go out away from you and get higher early. So I just feel like there a wall in front of my hands and don’t smash into the wall so basically feels straight back for a foot or so. With the turn of body they come inside a touch properly. To minimize the roll (which is by far the most destructive and hardest to fix for me) as I swing back, after that first foot or so, feel the wrists co*k up and feel as if the top of the glove (back of your hand) is pointed directly away from me at P3 arm parallel to ground and not up at the sky. So the club feels 100% vertical to ground. Really helped me to stop the forearm roll away from ball.

[kobe123]

What happen to your ball striking/ball flight?

[kobe123]

I agree, I always over do it on the range. Then when I play, I just play.

[stingerfade]

When I transition from there correctly it’s great! Ha

as stated by someone above I’ve been rolling for so long my old steep EE FLIP doesn’t work if I’m in the proper position at the top. Where I’m at now with it since it’s winter here in ny is I do the takeaway as I said up to top, pause and then relax the wrists to get the club shallower then swing through. It’s a drill my instructor gave me and seems to be what the planemate peeps are advocating. Hard to do but when I do it and turn through and don’t stall it’s definitely where I’m trying to get to. You can really feel the club in the “slot” when you relax your wrists from a steeper backswing and can just athletically turn through like we feel like we should lol. Also use video when you do these all the time. It really sucks to see how bad you look but is invaluable for knowing where you really are and actually feels great once you see improvement on video.

[glk]

I found mixing in single arm swings - just hands hip high to start - with the stick drill is a good combo. I also just take it back to trail thigh and hit from there. Mix it up basically. Single arm swings are money. I’m pretty decent trail arm but need to work more on the lead( and based on my lesson with Monte yesterday I will).

tyler posted a video on a student lesson on the release - really good stuff to watch him work with some one - only on pay site but can take a free trial to see it and more. Reinforced my need to work more on lead arm swings too. Live Lesson: The Release

 

[Krt22]

At the top the face has to open (to the path),it just doesnt fan wide open early like when you roll the forearms early.

[stingerfade]

 

Rory fight the hands out too...funny I always used his swing as a “well he does it!!” since it’s such an issue for me. If you watch his club head it always pops forward away from body a hair as he goes back

 

[kobe123]

I work on this nearly everyday. My hands always seem to push out as well.

[Cpr3584]

"Tiger has shifted to a plane that is parallel to the shaft plane angle he established at address as indicated by the red line.

In order to do this, he has swung his arms slightly more around than he did when working with Butch and the club rotates open during the backswing to achieve this flatter plane.

As a side note, during the telecast of the 2006 Tour Championship that Adam Scott won, one of the announcers mentioned that Butch Harmon had told Adam to start "fanning the clubface open" during the takeaway because it was lagging behind his hands too much during the takeaway.

If you've watched much of Adam this year, you can see that he has started getting into the more laid off position similar to Tiger's at the top and now adding the fanning during the takeaway will go a long way to reshaping his swing to be very similar to Tiger's.

Whether they admit it or not, when Tiger makes a change, people on tour take notice. At the 2006 Masters, I watched at least 4 players working on rotating the clubface open on the way back and getting more laid off at the top, one of which was Padraig Harrington."

[kobe123]

If I draw a line from tigers iron to the ground, it is inside the ball. Neither Tiger nor Adams face is fanned open at P2, imo.

[kobe123]

And at the end of the day, all that matters is the scorecard. So if you score better doing your method, keep on doing it!

[Lefty_3Jack]

I'm with you and have gotten really into the mental game over the last 8-9 months to fight it. Letting go is tough, but I've played better golf because of it. In the last video lesson I got back from Dan at one point he said, "and I know you can over think things, so we'd like to keep this as athletic as possible." Listen to Bob Rotella and you'll hear him mention using your athleticism. You've got to tell yourself and trust yourself that your mechanics are good enough to put a swing on the ball to hit your desired target. Mechanics work has to be separate and not applied to your thought on the course unless your out practicing and want to have the course in front of you trying to implement those changes. If you're trying to shoot your best score mechanics gots to go!

[stingerfade]

Me too I’m borderline obsessed with it. Hate when I can’t do something especially something seemingly simple. The hands straight back for a foot or so thing really is helping me a ton. Use my body to get there not my hands. The logo glove facing away as I mentioned really helped the roll as well. Still putting in reps

[Krt22]

I think you need to learn to differentiate between opening the face and fanning it open early by flipping it inside. Everyone opens the face in the back swing, it's physically impossible not to. The issue you have is opening it too much too early

[kobe123]

This I agree with 100%!

[stingerfade]

The face opens naturally with the bending of the right elbow. Early fanning is forearm rotation of the left arm. Took me FOREVER to understand this even though dan told me. I’m slow

[glk]

Issue with early roll is that people don’t just pronate the forearm but also internally rotate the lead shoulder. Can’t set club vertical so shaft goes flat, if you try to use your pivot to take the club up it won’t so you’d end up with the shaft plane way below the shoulders - So people lift the arms to get the club up - now they are disconnected from the pivot - and few people can resynch the transition - folks mostly end up with arms trailing pivot and all the comps needed to hit the ball. Stick drill not only gets one steeper but keeps arm motion in synch with pivot .

 

Has lots of benefits - synch turn, enables steep to shallow, anti flip, can get one to fully turn torso versus using shoulders to complete turn. Doesn’t cure cancer but pretty darn good - reason why plane mate is popular too- does all that with better feedback.

[Krt22]

Yeah it's an error that really cascades and has a big impact on the top of the swing. I legitimately used to think I had a flexibility issue, turns out it had zero to do with range of motion and instead just how I was moving.

[TIM929]

anyone have a visual of what fanning the face looks like?

[Krt22]

 

Basically forearms roll and the club head gets sucked inside and it opens the face.

 

[TIM929]

Ohhhh thanks @Krt22

that was a swing killer for me, really glad it’s gone now.

[Cpr3584]

Thanks to everyone who has been providing detailed information on this.

For me the best way forward appears to be starting my swing on a slightly more upright plane, slowing down the opening of the face.

[Krt22]

This one is for you cpr. Solid gold on how to hit a proper steep to shallow draw. Same intent as the stick drill IMO.

[rich_s2]

Having gone down this road and reading some replies, this is my take on it. You can play good golf with a crap swing if you practice it enough and have good hand/eye coordination. I highly doubt you can continue to do so though as you age. I see that with the guys at my club. For me as I have improved my wretched swing (still sucks btw) I have found out how much easier it is to hit good shots. Sooooooo much less work due to less compensations. Stay the path, put in the work and you will reap the benefits. I could play good a few years ago when I was on but when I was off it was a train wreck. My bad days now are still good. What I love about Dan is he is just 100% pure bluntly honest.

[Fireballer]

This drill is what helped me transition from Montes shoulder isolation drill into full swing. Its feels so awkward at first and now it just feels like c0cking upwards and turning the shoulders. I use this feel in my shortgame and it has become so much more consistent. Its so great for those that steepen at transition. You just have to commit to having a little Furyk-esque feel at transition.

[Lefty_3Jack]

I agree that it feels disjointed and very two piece meaning my backswing is very much separate from my downswing. When I am playing and not thinking mechanics my swing is much more a flowing motion. I also do not "steepen the shaft" so that the butt is pointed well inside the ball on the way back in my playing swing. Working on the stick drill gets me to where the butt will point basically at the ball on my playing swing.