Reeds scrape away

[bladehunter]

interesting point was confirmed in the rules section this morning. Had he scraped all that away on his backswing during the actual stroke. No penalty or issue at all. ( in a waste bunker. Not in a regular bunker).

 

I

[MidwestGolfBum]

I watched in real time, saw the sand move on the live broadcast before anybody brought it up, and just assumed I missed something about the waste areas. I will agree that we don't have any idea what his actual intentions were, nor will we probably ever get a perfectly clear picture that shows what improvement was made to get the club on the ball. My issue will always lie with how he handled himself after, basically denying that he did a thing with the "camera angles" excuse. I saw it happen live, it wasn't just because of some zoomed in, slow motion version of the event. It happened twice, no less. There's also the fact that he has done a nearly identical thing in the past in a waste area, which was caught on film, which makes it even harder for me to believe that it wasn't intentional; though, as you said, only P Reed knows that. The penalty was correctly applied, as you stated. It has always been how he has handled the situation after that ha rubbed me the wrong way.

[MattyO1984]

Simply cannot accept those that believe this would be a non-issue if it were someone who was not Reed.

 

Looking at the field from last week, even if it was someone like Chez Reavie, this would be an issue. In a game which expects its players to call a penalty on themselves even when they haven’t really done anything wrong (see Brian Davis at Hilton Head a few years ago), not only did Reed break a rule in about as dramatic a fashion as he possibly could have done, he has since come out and denied that was doing it. If anyone in that field had done the same thing, it’s an issue, no doubt about it.

[Titleist99]

Hmmm....If it's legal to move sand on the back swing, why pay attention to it during the practice swing? Hmmm...

Plus, he's done it before on camera in a waste bunker and it was not brought to his attention.......Just saying.

[jholz]

Yeah, I agree with you that Kuchar's reputation was never anything like Reed's. But, I also remember a number of people at the time of the El Tucan fiasco saying that they weren't necessarily surprised by Kuchar's behavior. Total scuttlebutt and totally unsubstantiated, of course. But, that's kind of my point. It doesn't necessarily have to be true to cause lasting impact.

 

Funny thing is, of course, that I can't seem to dredge any of those statements up again - either on WRX or the internet in general. Conspiracy? I am left to assume so. :)

[davep043]

Please remember, this was NOT in a bunker but in the General Area. Practice swings are allowed, grounding the club behind the ball is allowed. Moving sand or loose soil from the area of the intended swing is NOT allowed, unless its done during the backswing of the real stroke.

Its come to me how someone like Reed could get into this bad habit. This is, after all, in the general area, or through the green as it was defined previously. You've always been allowed to ground the club behind the ball. Who among us hasn't grounded the club behind a ball in the rough, for example, and taken a practice backswing to see how much resistance the grass will provide. But in the rough, you haven't changed anything, where in the sandy waste area, Reed clearly moved sand. Same location on the golf course (General Area), same general action (ground the club, practice backswing), different result under the rules. I don't mean this to defend Reed, I can't understand how he could do this and not feel it, or see the trough he created, and his subsequent claims don't play well. His better choice would have been "I didn't notice it, but I clearly broke the rule, I'll be more careful in the future". No talk about "them" assessing the penalty, no discussion of his intent, I think his statements to the press have made this a bigger deal than it needed to be.

[jah7838]

I watched it that evening on the tv replay and didn't see the sand move at full speed when he was going through he routine before the shot, and I was looking for it. I was expecting to see a lot of sand being moved. The slow motion view looks way worse. I agree with the penalty, and also agree with the sentiments from a previous comment that this is worse because it was Patrick Reed involved. Another golfer would generate some conversation, but I don't think it would be 16 pages worth of comments.

[jt2gt]

What's interesting to me is that he does the exact same thing in round 2 on hole 16 (video is on youtube), but no close up shot to see how much sand was removed. Both announcers didn't think anything of it and even commented that he moved some sand, but just kept on commentating like it was no big deal. I think this is just PR's routine in waste bunkers to gain an advantage and he finally got called on it. Interesting thing will be to see if he does this again in a waste bunker/rough situation.

[MtlJeff]

Kuch probably had the internet wiped!!! And he can afford it , he doesnt tip well! :)

[Pepperturbo]

If you're a citizen living in the US it's your responsibility to know all the state & city laws that pertain to you. You've heard "ignorance of the law is no excuse." Most people I know don't have a clue about all the laws, just those laws that are obvious and what's obvious varies per person. Heck, most drivers would flunk a drivers test without cramming before taking the test. Should we give them a pass and are they all jerks too? Just saying...

[Guia]

I am wondering if the Master's will give him an invite?

[thevaporz]

That's a good point about the scrape away being legal in the actual swing. I'm definitely going to practice that. Just make sure the ball doesn't move before I hit it too. Great way to overcome those tricky lies in penalty areas & waste areas now.

[Rangeballz]

I'm convinced the guy does this on purpose. I think he thrives on " it's me against the world".

[BlackDiamondPar5]

The sand was purposefully in his way because it's against him :)

[Philomathesq]

Invitation Category #1 is past Masters Champions, those of whom are given lifetime invites. Reed falls into this category. For a tournament that is steeped in as much tradition as the Masters, I highly doubt they would fail to invite Reed (I'm not even sure if they can fail to invite him given his status as a past winner).

[MMB1500]

They usually go hand-in-hand as well.

[Hawkeye77]

As was said, he'll be going there pretty much as long as he wants to - but man, the fun they old guys could come up with at the Champion's Dinner. Would love to see a pic of Watson at the table with Gary on one side and Patrick on the other, lol. And for laughs have Phil directly across the table from Tom. Oh the stories . . . .

[juliette91]

Can you explain the difference now between what you're allowed and not allowed to do----between a waste and green side bunker? (fwiw many accounts are calling Reed's bunker play a green side bunker)

[redfirebird08]

Reed sure knows how to rile up the masses.

[redfirebird08]

 

Rory is a very classy guy. You're not going to hear him bashing other players in the media. He took the high road. I don't blame him for that.

[bladehunter]

i can try. The guys who KNOW are in the rules section. That’s where I posed the question and was told. One thing you’ll never catch me claiming , is that I’m a rules expert. Nope.

 

anyway as I understand it. These bunkers are not labeled as “ penalty areas “ ( think old term -hazard). Therefore they require thought just like bare dirt anywhere else. You can ground your club ( cannot in a bunker that is a penalty area ) and therefore moving soil during the swing is not illegal. It is however illegal to do it before the actual swing t help your lie

 

Another confusing part of the Rules. New for this year. You CAN ground your club in a penalty area , with the exception of a bunker. So In short. You can ground your club in a waste area bunker , you can ground your club in a penalty area ( old word hazard ) . But you cannot ground your club in a penalty area bunker ..,,, can you say not simplified ? Lol.

in my opinion they should have left it at illegal to ground your club in any hazard ( penalty area) ..... why ? On one hand they allow me or you to ground our 3 wood in the Junk behind the ball until we can get a club on the back of the ball , but in the other hand they call what Reed did illegal and a sin against the cosmos . I find the two to contradict. I don’t want Reed to get a pass. But I do want the rules to not give passes to some and not others depending on the whim of the year.

[paulshack]

In my honest opinion the fact that you guys have been rambling on with each other for 16 pages is an even bigger issue then this douche bag nerd brushin some sand in some tourney that really don't mean shit

[GeorgeHWB]

I would love to see ANGC make a change and eliminate the past champions rule so they could keep Patrick Reed out of their tournament.

[Hawkeye77]

And yet you were compelled to comment, lol! But it was honest!

[davep043]

The difference lies in the definition of the two locations. A "waste bunker" is part of the General Area, what was once called "through the green, " and that's where Reed's ball was In the General Area, you're not deemed to have improved your lie if you move some sand or break a bit of branch in your backswing, as long as you complete the stroke. If you mive the sand or break the branch before you start your actual stroke, you HAVE improved your lie. In a bunker, as a specifically defined part of the golf course, you cannot touch the sand just in front of or behind the ball, even if its during your actual backswing. Reed was NOT in a bunker. This is all pretty clear in Rule 8.

[Vindog]

And hope that he plays out of the Top 50 as well?

 

And are talking about the same ANGC that, if they could have, would have let Tiger off scot-free from his improper drop?

 

[MtlJeff]

If we just do the sensible thing and execute Patrick Reed than we dont have to worry about things like this

I would love, love, to hear one good reason why we shouldn't execute him

[Hawkeye77]

Because we know if we give him enough rope . . . . .

[thevaporz]

As a bad golfer I love the new rule for penalty areas permitting grounding clubs, taking practice swings, and clearing loose impediments. Def helps keep the clubs from getting all thrashed up (i.e. leading edges/soles).

[bladehunter]

Captain America ! Duh.