Royal Melbourne = goofy golf

[Hawkeye77]

Deflect, deflect as usual.

 

You said the greens were slower, they weren't.

 

To back that up you said Doak said the course wasn't as firm as usual - he wasn't talking about the greens.

 

Enough already, just gets tiresome.

[pinhigh27]

you guys are trying to have a discussion with someone who can't be reasoned with. read basically any other architecture course on this subforum and its plainly obvious

[hdr_ric]

I disagree, I think it looks awesome and I’d love to play it.

Also, I could be wrong (and apologies if I am), but wasn’t Roadking one of those defending the abomination that was Chambers Bay?!? Someone with more patience that I go back and look that up in the post history.

[LICC]

Did you actually not read the Tom Doak quote? He specifically mentioned the greens. He used the word “greens”. I can go back and re-post it for you if that will help you from making these ridiculous comments of yours.

[dlygrisse]

This thread is goofy, the course seems to be a cross between the Old Course and Augusta. Brilliant course that could only be built on that sandy soil. The players all seemed to love it.

 

Card. I will go with your opinion. ?

[Hawkeye77]

Oh good Lord, he simply said he doubted the greens would be speed rolled after one particular day, didn't address at all the general speed of the greens vs. what they normally are. Windy conditions, I'm sure they didn't need speed rolling, maybe they didn't as he guessed, maybe they did, who knows.

Doesn't invalidate the comments made by folks who play there and know and others who commented along the same lines.

Doak doesn't address at all the point you claimed after the fact he was making.

Again, enough already.

Fabulous course and I continue to defer to those who have played it and the members who have made there comments known.

 

[DrSchteeve]

Hmmm...let's see.

RM West course is consistently ranked in the top 10 in the world (currently #5 Golf.com, #6 Golf Digest), with the courses ahead of it including Augusta National, Cypress Point, The Old Course at St Andrews, and Pine Valley. Pretty good company.

Designed by Alistair McKenzie, also, guess what? Consensus top 10 golf course architect of all time.

By look and feel, very similar to Pine Valley, consensus #1 course in the world.

Oh, and, by the way, these rankings are for the West course, and since the composite course was created to make the course to be played for the President's Cup even better, so perhaps deserving an even higher ranking.

If the OP's post was a troll, quite successful. Otherwise, if you state an opinion that is at odds with the greatest minds and players in golf, you might want to 1) acknowledge that, and 2) give a reasoned assessment supporting your opinion, and 3) realize that perhaps you don't know a great deal about golf course architecture and design.

[raynorfan1]

Anybody who is saying that any green in the world “normally” runs at 15 is ignorant or lying.

15 on a green with movement is unputtable.

[az2au]

I'm friends with someone that grew up playing at RM and is still a member even though he lives in MX now. He's also the best amateur player I know (handicap is +5). He actually snorted when I told him that someone said that RM normally plays at 15 on the stimp. He believes it is normally in the 10-12 range which, based on actual experience, is what I would have guessed as well. I've played once on greens I saw stimped at 13'3" and they were borderline unplayable for most of the field in a tournament where the highest handicap index was 5. Honestly it wasn't even fun as there was a ton of wind so rounds were taking 6+ hours.

[dpb5031]

I've played a lot of places, including PV, Shinny, etc., but I ve never played Down Under. RM looks awesome to me. Highly entertaining for viewing, looks like it would be great fun to play!

[dpb5031]

[cardoustie]

Oh it is .. I still have my composite bag tag somewhere in the man cave

[raynorfan1]

The problem is that most people play on greens in the ~8 range, but the super tells them that they’re running at 11. Then they go someplace where they actually are at 12, but they’re MUCH faster than their home course...so they must be like 17!

[Man_O_War]

those who know golf, know. RM is a gem

[Pykie]

 

Haha.

 

How wrong you could be.

 

I'm a member at RMGC.

 

The greens are usually 15 all year round for the members, the PGA requested they be dropped to 13.

 

They ran 16 a decade or so ago in an Australian Open, you want to see tough? Try find some footage of that tournament. Nobody could stop the ball on the greens. If the pro's were chipping above the hole, they may as well have been in the bunkers on the other side of the green already.

 

We aren't even in close to the heart of summer, if this was played in early Feb, this course would play much much tougher...... They got excellent conditions for the most part, given Melbourne is known for having 35+ degree days and then sudden weather changes. This coming Thursday is forecast to be 40C & Friday is 41C (104F & 105F) as a comparison. They played in 70F for most of the week with minimal wind.

 

They cleared out a whole heap of tea tree in the shrubs in prep for the Cup, which meant that most of the run off's this week didn't result in unplayables....

 

If anything the course played a fair bit easier than it does week in week out.

[LICC]

If I had to put money on it, I would trust Tom Doak over what you just said. I’ll just assume you are misinformed.

[GoGoErky]

its hilarious how you deny info from first hand sources. Nothing like calling people liars.

[Pykie]

I literally own a house that backs onto the course near the first green of the west course. I'm not sure Tom Doak see's the course as much as I do..

I played pennant golf for Victoria Golf Club (another top sand belt course direct across the road from RMGC), grew up in Black Rock (the suburb that RMGC is in) and have played Kingston Heath at least 50+ times ~ another brutish sandbelt gold course that very likely hosts the next Presidents Cup hosted in Australia and battles RMGC for the #1 GC in Australia in most yearly lists.

 

I've personally played all of Troon, St Andrews, Ballybunion, Old Head, Carnoustie, Royal St Georges.

 

In the U.S I've been lucky enough to play Pebble, Bethpage Black, TPC Sawgrass & Oakmont.

 

 

RMGC is unique to all of the above, like Augusta, TV really doesn't do the course justice, most on here are talking about the greens, yes they are very quick but they are only one part of the equation.

 

Like Augusta, another McKenzie course, the course is much much more undulating than you can see on TV. Not Augusta mountainus, but still very hilly. It is built on the side of a natural sand dune off of the natural cliffs at Red Bluff at Black Rock beach. What you can't pickup is the tee shots. The sheer amount of sharp doglegs, blind tee shots etc. Most tee shots are blind due to doglegs, the bushscape and the undulation of the fairways.

 

The players made some very very difficult tee shots look extremely easy at times. Mere mortals would find some holes absolutely daunting. The short Par 4 10th (West) which the players were routinely driving, has a bunker around 3-4 stories (6-8m) below the green and is absolutely fucking enormous! You need to hit a 260-270m carry with a high draw to clear it, I don't think any pro caught it this week, but for most amateur golfers it's well and truly in play and one of the toughest bunkers in world golf.

 

The wind was blowing into them during the practice rounds and a good 50% of them were in this bunker with driver in hand, conditions very much dictates this hole and makes it a completely different prospect, like alot of the rest of the course.

 

 

[LICC]

I trust you that the course is brilliant. But Tom Doak knows more about the course’s setup and green speeds than you do. He has been a consulting architect to the course since 2011 and has done work and made changes. It is his job to know the speeds and setup and it is his expertise.

If the green speeds were normally kept at 15 with those slopes and contours, then the course shouldn’t even be ranked in the top 50 just because of stupid setup making the greens unplayable.

I’ll point you to the two posters above: “I'm friends with someone that grew up playing at RM and is still a member even though he lives in MX now. He's also the best amateur player I know (handicap is +5). He actually snorted when I told him that someone said that RM normally plays at 15 on the stimp. He believes it is normally in the 10-12 range which, based on actual experience, is what I would have guessed as well”

And: “Anybody who is saying that any green in the world “normally” runs at 15 is ignorant or lying. 15 on a green with movement is unputtable”

[Chanceman]

I never did say you said those words. Cant you read? I simply said your comments were especially moronic.

[LICC]

You got caught not knowing who made the comments and now you are trying not to look stupid. Please quote exactly my comments to which you are objecting.

[Pykie]

Also for those wanting to travel out here at some point.

 

The Sandbelt is compared to the Monterey penninsula for a few reasons. Mainly the quantity of fantastic courses.

 

"Sand" referring to the sandy loam soil categorizing the area, but the "belt" referring to the sheer amount of absolutely world class golf courses in the area.

 

Remembering this a major metro suburban area of almost 5 million people, there really isn't anywhere else like it in the world. This should put it into perspective for those who don't have an idea of the area.

 

 

 

South East Melbourne (I put a scale in there to keep it in perspective how many courses are in the area). I also left out 4 or 5 cheaper public courses within this area.

 

Remembering the Morninton Penninsula is around 45 mins drive from here and has another 20 odd courses, with some of the best links courses in the southern hemisphere being found down there like The National, Moonah Links, The Dunes, St Andrew Beach, Portsea, Sorrento, Cape Schanck, . Melbourne is an absolute golf lovers Mecca and should be on any true golf lovers bucket list.

 

 

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

WTF?

 

A gentleman is kind enough to come on here and provide real information about a course he actually lives on, has real experience playing great courses all over the world, shares a bit about design and strategy on the golf course and you go all "you don't know crap" and start in on him about green speeds?

HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT GREEN SPEEDS OR STIMPMETERS OR ANYTHING LIKE IT. Just said they are "quick" is all. Lighten up Francis.

This place is in Lincoln, Nebraska - I thought it manufactured Nebraska fans (just kidding you folks) but apparently no, other things come from there.

[Hawkeye77]

Thanks for sharing this stuff! It is awesome and would love to hear more and I'll bet 99% on here would as well.

My dream years ago was to visit Australia, that eventually became a more attainable dream of traveling to Scotland. Never say never, but it is unlikely I'll get down under, but love reading about the courses and the area!

[KevCarter]

I'm really enjoying your posts Pykie. I was lucky enough to be an exchange student in a suburb of Melbourne, Blackburn, way back in 1974. I loved it there. I was lucky enough to have privileges at Croydon Golf Club. I understand they sold the property and rebuilt elsewhere. I was also lucky enough to play 1 round at Royal Melbourne. Unfortunately, I was 16 years old with no idea of the history of the club, and don't remember anything about the experience. Thank you for sharing your map and information. Great memories of my visit.

Cheers!

[Pykie]

 

 

Differing opinions. Whatever. I play it regularly and it has the hardest toughest greens anywhere I've played in the world. I obviously don't run a stint every round I play, however I know for a fact the PGA made a request to slow the greens up after their initial inspection 6 months ago.

I could quote 50 articles over the last 40 years that have Oakmont, RMGC and Kingston Heath as having the three most difficult greens in the world. 2 of those golf clubs are a 5 minute drive apart, that's not a coincidence.

 

When you hit a short iron into a green or par 3 your ball bounces 7 foot in the air like off concrete, do other courses you have played with a stint of 10-12 do that?

 

It's not a dick measuring contest, there's plenty of hard greens out there.

 

But how many of them are also on one of the hottest, driest continents on earth? Melbourne has a similar climate to Arizona in terms of high temps in summer remembering.....

 

 

I'll leave this with you:

 

 

 

[Pykie]

 

Unfortunately the 70's, you probably missed the development of the MorningtonPenninsula Courses!

 

St Andrews Beach - Is the epitome of an 'Australian Bush Links' - The closest comparison I've found overseas is Ballybunion, which is consistently ranked in the top 30 in the world, this is a fully public golf course as well! - https://standrewsbeachgolf.com.au/course-guide/ -

 

The National Golf Course - Has 3 x 18 hole courses, all Top 15 courses in Australia.

 

The Dunes Golf Course - Most Melbournians favourite links course!

 

 

 

 

 

[KevCarter]

An amazing wealth of great golf courses!!!

[Roadking2003]

This is true. 99% of golfers don't have a clue about green speeds. I refuse to believe anybody who says their greens Stimp at 15. Unless the greens are almost flat, 15 makes them unplayable even by pros. Why on God's Green Earth would anybody want to play a course with Stimps of 15?

[Roadking2003]

No. You have it backwards. I trashed CB.