Reed's Caddy in an "altercation"

[stingerfade]

No, Drive away like you did at the concert and laugh about it later with your winning teammates.

[bladehunter]

only to let the behavior continue. That’s the root issue. None of these idiots get the public humiliation that they need to realize how to act.

 

in case you missed it , letting that idiot get away with acting that way still eats at me years later. Very hard to know it was the right thing to do.

[Bloom]

Why do some here think that any physical aggression towards the heckler is going to be a positive ending for themselves? Do they not think that once someone escalates it to physical contact that the heckler (or his buddies) won't swing back? Taking a couple of swings at a heckler does not usually solve your problems (ask Ron Artest).

[stingerfade]

It’s a tough spot. You’d probably be eaten up worse if you punched him and he fell off the balcony or something as well. Never a good situation, I was at liberty national this year and this one drunk kid kept heckling players, he seemed to be in my hip no matter where I went. He said to Rory, “nice putt at the open loser!!” And his two buddies chuckled. I just moved then later he heckled speith on two holes and I turned around and said why do you do that? It’s not funny to anyone but your stupid immature friends and you look like an ass. The people around me backed me up. But I knew uh oh here we go lol. Before I knew it spieths caddie was right behind me and asked who’s the Fing joker over here saying bull*!! He was FUMING and not a small guy. Everyone pointed to the guy and the caddie railed on him and then a cop came on his own and grabbed his arm and said “let’s go” everyone cheered.

[dalehead]

I see your point, but context is everything. Verbally disparaging a person on the street is different from doing it to a competitor in a professional sporting event. Its kind of a risk acceptance situation. When you attend a PGA tournament the back of your ticket says, among other things, that you realize there is risk of being hit by a stray golf ball and you accept that risk. From the players standpoint one of the risks they accept is untoward, even ugly comments from the fans. Not to excuse the fans, or the fan in Reed’s case, but it comes with the territory. It would be unacceptable for a fan to assault a player who hit them with a stray shot. It’s also unacceptable to physically assault a fan, even a fan who has made a particularly nasty comment.

[bladehunter]

It’s not that at all. It’s not that I think I’m unbeatable. It’s just that I don’t care. We’re all here a short time. We die and then quickly forgotten. When you run up on someone who understands that and who’s willing to die for a friend or a family member , that’s when it gets interesting. Most Fights are easily won as they are just a product of male dominance testing , and One guy usually backs off quickly as both realize they are equals. . It’s when you run into a guy who doesn’t care about dominance that it can get bad. I’m not going to slap you. I’m going to try to stick my thumb in your eye socket hopefully to reach your Brain. Huge difference.

 

My mind isnt saying “ let’s see if he will fight and I’ll bully him down “. My mind is saying “ threat recognized , neutralize threat as quickly as possible “. As in when you come at me. if you back up I won’t follow. But I’m not going to run. Of course exceptions apply like the concert scenario. The guy wasn’t rude speaking , just drunk. He didn’t intend to point his rudeness towards anyone. Just didn’t have a tall enough fence around him to keep it from spilling over. That and my wife was there to talk me home.

And I’m not just talking out of my ass. I’ve been some places and seen some things. But hey. I’m getting us off topic. Just another reason I love this place. Constant reminder of how odd I am compared to most of the voting populace. It boils down to the thought. Everywhere I go I try very hard to be as polite , courteous and non confrontational as I can ( this place is the exception as I also love debate ). I’m frequently the most quiet in a room , and willing to help anyone do literally anything . So these types at sporting events clash with my sensibilities so starkly that I cannot begin to understand what goes through their heads. How do they exist daily being the loud , obnoxious, do nothing they are ? And why is it tolerated ?

[MtlJeff]

I think a lot of the people who do stuff at sporting events are losers , but they most likely dont act that way in their day to day life. They see sporting events as some kind of safe space that is protected. Almost like the movie "the purge" LOL....for those few hours they can say or do anything and it's fine, because fans "pay athletes salaries" they see themselves having ownership of them.

I think its tolerated because athletes are scared to push back too hard and organizations are hesitant to hassle fans. We think athletes are spoiled when they complain, that is still the norm. "He cant take the heat"

So overall as a society we mostly allow it.

 

[dalehead]

All valid points. The problem is how do you enforce it? How do you insure proper behavior among 60,000 football fans in a stadium, or 30,000 fans spread out on a golf course. Security can eject the really bad actors but they can’t be everywhere and police every infraction. The competitors, whether they be football and basketball players, or golfers need to learn to perform in spite of bad fan behavior, or conduct sporting events in empty stadiums and golf courses. TV only.

One other thing that could be done. Don’t sell beer. But now I’m being silly.

[MtlJeff]

Im not sure there is a correct answer to be honest. Being more strict on fan offenders for sure (the NBA has banned some fans permanently for truly bad behavior like racist comments) but that will not stop people intent on doing it. The PGA could invest more in security and throw people out who curse at players, they have the money to do that if they want

I said earlier in the thread but I think within the next few years there will be a major fan incident in one of the major sports. Most likely the NBA where fans are so close and there is already a lot of tension. After that maybe other leagues will look at more measures

[Ghost of Snead]

As long as there's "instant courage" at a golf tournament, the hijinx will continue and I'm sure you know they have been going on for years. I was at the '87 Players when the drunk dove in the water on 17 when Sluman was about to putt. Was also at the '99 Ryder Cup where Monty was hounded relentlessly about his weight and the Mrs Doubtfire thing. Both instances were alcohol fueled stupidity. That and social media seems to have made folks more liable to pull something.

The Tour should probably implement some form of alcohol count sold per ticket to try and nip this before we have a Monica Seles incident. That won't stop the pre-tournament tailgaters (yep, they exist) and those who slip the nips in to mix with their Arnold Palmers or Cokes. But with that comes a loss of alcohol revenue.

For whatever reason, the Masters does it right despite the fact there is no limit on alcoholic drinks. Heckle or verbally abuse a player or his clan and you're done for life.

[MtlJeff]

I'm not on the "ban alcohol " bandwagon . It wont happen because its such moneymaker for events anyway, but even if it did I wonder how much it really is the cause of poor fan behavior.

I think it's more like a bulletproof vest for these guys.... You may feel more confident wearing one , but you dont put it on unless you're expecting to get into some sh**

[Ghost of Snead]

I'm of the opinion that alcohol is a large part of poor fan behavior. Have a look at some of the tailgating stuff that goes on at NFL games.

Without alcohol, most of that stuff never happens and as long as booze is available, the potential for excess consumption is there.

 

 

[TimK1]

Agreed, I don't blame him. Just because your a fan doesn't give you a buffoon pass. I would have dropped him too. People are f Morns. It's just a f game. Who cares?

[MtlJeff]

Where are you tailgating? I've tailgated at NFL games in some areas where guys drank for 6 hours and everything was great. Was at a game in the southwest where guys were wearing opposing teams jerseys and no one harrassed them, people just playing beanbags and throwing balls and having a good time

I've tailgated in the northeast where people think its OK to urinate on people or generally act like belligerent idiots.

I'm not sure alcohol is the cause as much as that some cities believe their own hype about being belligerent, and start embracing it and acting that way because everyone tolerates it and expects it. It's almost as if you go there just to do that

But Arizona doesnt have a reputation for peeing on people and yelling "you think ya better than me" ...so even with booze, no one does that at Cardinals tailgates

[Ghost of Snead]

Mostly in the Northeast - I have been at Buffalo Bills tailgates where folks were diving off Winnebagos onto folding tables, throwing kegs, fighting with opposition tailgates, etc. Lots of anti-opponent nastiness at NY Jets/Patriots/Eagles/Steelers/Browns tailgates as well. On the contrary, tailgating in Atlanta is fairly civilized. I'd bet the fan that Karain assaulted would have said nothing if not for having quite a few. Apparently, he was double-fisted when Karain went after him.

[stingerfade]

Not true. I grew up in west phx as a steeler fan (no team when I was younger there cards were St Louis) and everytime I go to a steeler game people talk smack and throw beer cans at me and my fellow steeler jersey wearers. Usually happens walking out of the stadium

[MtlJeff]

My friend tailgated in buffalo last weekend and has video of guys jumping onto folding tables WWE style LOL

 

[Hawkeye77]

Alcohol is the major part of the issue. Does the Tour have to ban it? It won't. Should it control it much better - limited times when sold and quantities? Absolutely. Sure there are jokers not fueled by too much, but they always seem to be the exception not the rule. Limiting alcohol will make a difference.

Beyond that, alcohol related or not, set some guidelines that will be enforced and be proactive about it.

Tour can afford it if it wants to invest in it. It has been involved actively and by ignoring the issue in allowing it to grow - PGA of America as well at the Ryder Cup.

[bouche03]

I can actually tell you that you are wrong and that many arenas the fans are right on the players, especially at the tunnel where players come on and off the ice and also at the benches; in addition, especially in Europe, where I also played there is little to separate the fans from the players. Also, in my time in the minors, there were many arenas where the fans sat right next to the opposing bench, with nothing more than a railing separating them from the players. College hockey is the same. I can remember how ruthless the student section at Cornell was when we played them. So it doesn't seem like you really know hockey very well, which is fine, or at least not outside what you see on TV or in an NHL arena. Bottom line, there's no excuse for what happened, and as someone who has been abused and insulted relentlessly by fans in close proximity, you have to be professional and ignore it, as hard as it is. The paid their money for the ticket, they have the right to heckle you. The caddie fell short of this level of professionalism, regardless of what the fan said. By all reports, he walked up and said Reed "f$#king sucks"; I'm sorry, if they can't take that from a fan, then they should not play in the Ryder or President's Cup. The NY fans were ruthless on the International team. It's a two way street, I don't recall seeing anyone on the International team losing their minds a couple years back when it was at Liberty National

[caniac6]

My son was a stick boy for a minor league team in Winston-Salem, NC, and there was heckling, but it was pretty good natured. I can't remember anyone really getting into it with opposing players or coaches. We used to have season tickets to the Redskins games back in the day when they still played in RFK. The crowd was always loud, but pretty well behaved. My brother had tickets at Fed EX field, and he told me about numerous fights, and guys urinating at their seats. Back in the old days, it seemed that fans went to games to pull for their team, and have a good time. Now, it seems that they want to be part of the game. These drunks are not afraid to abuse players because they know the players won't do anything. I guarantee these guys would never get in a hockey players face outside the rink. I liked it when that guy in Philly was giving it to Tie Domi, and then fell into the penalty box with him.

[dalehead]

I’ve been to the Masters and they don’t limit beer sales, and the beer prices don’t discourage anyone from having as many as they want. So why are the Masters “patrons” seemingly better behaved? For one thing it’s an older crowd. Also if you’re attending the Masters you’ve either paid big bucks to a scalper, gotten your ticket from your company or family member, or you’ve had your tickets for a couple of decades. In any of those cases you’ve got a lot to lose by letting alcohol get the better of you.

[tannyhoban]

I am talking about proliferation. That was not the norm. It is now everywhere.

You may or may not share the view, but please don't come at me trying to invalidate my experiences.

I own them, you don't.

 

[tannyhoban]

Extrapolating direct to the extreme, eh? I said limit or ban at the events.

 

[bladehunter]

Yep. I mostly agree with that. Same people who go to restaurants and think that they are entitled to the best seating , faster service than others and then run the wait staff around for every little thing .

 

Funny your bring up the purge. That Would be a good way of getting rid of those idiots. Lol

 

but in all seriousness I don’t understand that mentality , i in no way assume I own a sports figure . That’s just an ignorant way to think

It’s this idea that “ they paid their money , they have a right to heckle “ no too actually don’t , you can’t do that in public , a ball game , hockey rink , or golf course is a public place . That mentality is a big part of the issue

 

Ive been reading comments and it seems to be a regional thing too . It’s been mentioned that the northeast is worst and that tailgating in Atlanta is mild . No shock there , it’s pretty ironic that we ( southeastern US folks ) get the rap for being the most ignorant place in the us .

 

[Hawkeye77]

The Masters is extremely proactive where alcohol and/or fan behavior is concerned. They will take action quickly and it will affect your ability to access the event permanently in some cases. Way more on top of it than the Tour. No phones is a biggie. Other rules and the respect that people show the place plays a part. Singling out The Masters just points up the Tour's failure on the issues.

 

And yes, limited. Only beer, limit of 2 per time through and no sales after 5 pm - big difference compared to the Tour.

 

100% it's a different vibe and folks really don't act out - no corporate tents lining fairways and other crap, but they do things a bit different with the alcohol.

[MtlJeff]

I'm from the northeast and overall they're the worst in my travels anyway. Montreal is a disgrace. When the Canadians make the playoffs we have people go out to burn cars and loot the city. I've seen food and beer thrown on fans wearing other jerseys etc. Imagine if you just did that while walking down the street? I almost got arrested one year because I was walking down the street and a guy next to me threw a bottle at a cop car passing after a playoff game. I didn't know the guy, wrong place wrong time thing. Eventually the police realized that thankfully.

People think they have immunity at sporting events....I guess because maybe they do. No one did anything to the people I saw throw food on someone. I think it's the testosterone and mostly lack of repercussion more than the beer.

I'm sure stuff happens in the southwest and south. But everytime I've been there it just seems much more relaxed and inviting

 

[buckeyevalley]

do we know 100% if it was a push or a punch? Big difference between the two.

[oikos1]

Well, since you asked, it just might have been pretty cool to see him stick his thumb in his eye socket hopefully to reach his brain. Now that would've been something to talk about!

I have no problem with someone taking whatever action they deem necessary when confronted with physical violence. Society tends to sort out the appropriate consequences. And no problem with the caddie standing up for his man. I just don't see this incident, nor does the PGA Tour, as anywhere close to the caddie needing to physically assault a patron.

[Hawkeye77]

Shoved him then swiped out the beer in each hand the guy was holding according to GC who said one of their people saw it. So the guy was pretty much defenseless although I really doubt he got pushed all that hard (not excusing it).

[chigolfer1]

Short of the fan physically touching you or, arguably, shouting something completely inappropriate about your family or something along those lines, there is zero excuse for touching the fan in an aggressive manner, period. Glad he wasn't allowed to caddie. And, you effing suck, is actually way more mild than I would have suspected for him to do this. It was the last thing Reed needed and just a seflish, "tough guy" act.