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Hitting "players" clubs better than G.I. clubs?


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A number of years ago I purchased a set of ultra game improvement irons, loaded with technology. I figured they would be so easy to hit. I was wrong. More often than not I hit a lot of low hooks with

You've come to the right place. Most of our members have this same issue

These sort of queries pop up on discussion boards all the time, and I really don't think there's an answer - but a few points come to mind: 1) Everybody goes through a honeymoon period, where they're

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just saying I get an email anytime someone comments on this post, and the amount of single digit handicappers that post here is astounding. I happen to work part time at bayou oaks golf course in city park new orleans, We have 4 pros working. they are all pga certified pros, they are all single digit handicap, they do this for a living. Yet every other person who comments on this post also claims to be single digit as well. I'm just having a hard time believing that everyone on this forum is as good as the pga certified pros. It's like the guy on the range swearing up and down he hits his 7 iron 180 yards, and shoots 76, but when we go play he's just having a bad day and shoots 96 and hits his 7 145.

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I like the analogy. This applies to a lot of things in life, like some guitars are harder to play than others and yet they are preferred by many discerning musicians. This is especially relevant to highly collectible vintage guitars. The feeling of nailing that riff or solo on a hard to play instrument can bring a greater level of enjoyment (and over time it gets easier). I guess It depends on the level of challenge one is willing to take on. Not everyone will commit to that same level of challenge. My guess is because of the potential for failure or rather the fear of it. If you do or don't, it shouldn't matter however for some reason when this relates to golf clubs (at least on this site) the reasoning to accept a higher level of challenge is totally unacceptable (or at least when someone claims to be better as a result). I've missed gears in my vette while driving with some of my best friends (some who are car fanatic mechanics), we laugh and carry on, no need to be embarrassed. I believe the less you worry about something, the easier it is (public speaking is a good example of this). From personal experience I went through a 12 week course, while I stayed, struggled, and eventually completed the course... several of my classmates didn't make it through, I respected their decision to back out as I hope they respected my decision to carry on. Imagine if they ridiculed me for completing the course because it was harder than walking away.


Driver: changing (SIM 2?)

3 Wood: TM SIM TI (15 deg) with Graphite Design GP 7X @ 43 inch

3 iron: TM SIM UDI 2 deg flat, 1 deg strong with Diamana Thump 100X @ 39 Inch

4-PW: TM P7MC with Modus 120 X (all bent 2 deg flat) standard length, 1 deg strong loft

Wedges: TM Milled Grind 2 chrome 52/09 and 58/11 (both at 2 flat with DG S200 shafts) 

TM Spider S putter @ 34 inches with heavier weights for 33 inch length (1 deg strong, 2 deg flat)

TM TP5 Ball (yellow)

All grips (except putter) Z Grip 360 Golf Pride with 1 extra wrap 

Sun mountain 4.5 stand bag

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I've worked equipment retail for over 15 years. The amount of legit good ball strikers I have seen I could count on my fingers and toes. The amount on WRX apparently is so high you would think you are going to bump into a mini-tour or 3rd tier PGA player every 2nd post. Like you, I'm not saying all of them are lying but how easy is it to be a persona on the internet?

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was bagging fitted p790.

had hard time with gapping.

 

just bought mp32 cuz it was too cheap to pass.

my iron game just got way better.

Cobra                      F9 9.0 Driver w/HZRDUS smoke 60 6.5
Titleist                     TS2 16.5 Wood w/HZRDUS smoke 70 6.5
Ping                         G410 19 Hybrid w/Ventus Blue 9 X

Titleist                     818 H2 23 Hybrid w/Accra TZ5 Proto 95 X
Ben Hogan              PTX Pro 4-7, ICON 8-P w/x100

Ben Hogan              Equalizer Wedges 52/58 w/x100

Evnroll                ER8 Putter

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I have used S59 but I wouldn't call myself a "blade player".

I have used those, MP32s, and a few other "players clubs"

I would say I prefer hitting GI clubs and I hit them "marginally " better with most of those margins being in the 3-4-5 irons. I am also a low index so maybe not a good reference

Callaway Mavrik Max 9 w/Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Callaway Epic Subzero 14 w/Matrix Black Tie 80
Callaway Apex Hybrid 20 w/ Diamana D+ 95
Cobra King Forged TEC 4-GW w/Nippon Modus 130

Cobra King MIM Black 56 and 60 wedges

SGC #002 flow neck 385g

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I’ve just put some CBs in my bag for the first time in years, albeit only 4-6-irons and fully expect to shave 3-4 shots off my handicap by the end of the season. If it doesn’t happen, I may have to call out the GI brigade for misrepresentation and peddling of misinformation!

I will report back in October with my results in order to get a full and proper data set over a full playing season ?

Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
Callaway XR Speed 3W Project X HZRDUS T800 65 Stiff
Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
Cobra King CB/MB Flow 4-6, 7-PW C-Taper Stiff
Wilson Staff PMP wedges 50/54/58 KBS Hi-Rev 2.0
Radius Classic 8

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I have been playing since the late sixties, in all that time my handicap only improved after I had a lesson. I switched irons back and forth several times but my handicap never reflected those changes so I play what I like.

Think I played your course in New Orleans you may have been the guy who warned me about the smart ass crows maybe robbing my cart, they did.

 

 

Sim max 10.5° ventus red r
Ping 5 wood G410 Alta s 
Ping G710 DG 105 R300 4-U 

mizuno T7 54° Bent to 52°
Ping glide stealth 54° es grind bent to 56°
Ping glide 2 58°. ES bent to 60°
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The improvement would be dependent on how often you typically use those clubs in a given round and what types of issues you had with them. But to be realistic, I wouldn't think replacing only 3 clubs in the 4/5/6 would shave 4 strokes. You're asking for an almost 1/3 reduction in your handicap which is a sizable change.

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I've been on WRX forever. If you blotted out the club models, this exact same thread has played out every quarter for 15 years.

Buy and play what you like. These threads almost feel like someone looking for validation of their purchase instead of just enjoying it.

PING G410 PLUS 9*
PING G400 5-wood
PING G410 22*
Srixon ZX5 5-PW

Cleveland Black Satin CBX 2 48* (on order)
Cleveland Black Satin CBX 2 52*
Cleveland CBX 2 56*

Cleveland 588 Tour Action Raw 60*
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Play to about a 6.5 hc. Hit the mavrik, taylormade p790, mizuno hotmetal and mp20 hmb, blade. I hit the mp20 blade the best tonight. P790 was a close 2nd.

Couldn't believe it. Iron game is the worst part of my game and have always gone forgiving

Ping G410 lst diamana bf
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ping g410 tensei hybrid
Epon 705 5-gw Oban ct115
Callaway MD5 54/58
taylormade my spider 
ping hoofer
tp5x

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Don't be a Debbie Downer man. Take away these threads and threads about Tiger,Phil, and Reed and what are we going to talk about?

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Titleist 816H2 23* @ 24*
Srixon ZX5's  5-PW

Ping Glide 3.0  50*
Ping Glide
 54 & 58*ES

Bettinardi Queen B 6

 

 

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This is really funny. I played with my fiancé’s brother in law who was a club pro for a bit (liar type... called himself head pro but I seriously doubt that). Anyways he says he’s a 2 and that he used to be scratch. I’d never golfed with him until this past summer. I haven’t been golfing all that long and at the time was playing off 8 or 9 (I play or practice every day so probably 10 years worth to many though!). You could tell he had a swing but he shot 96 while taking a lot of liberties and lost an entire box of pro v1. I shot 78 and he was not pleased. Definition of a vanity cap. He played in a tournament with my FIL and same thing high 80s. I think the amount of vanity caps vs sandbaggers is probably massive. People including a lot of 3ft gimmies and brekky balls.

Callaway Mavrik SZ 8* Rogue White 130MSI 70x | Ventus Black 6x

Callaway Mavrik SZ 15* Rogue White 130MSI 80x | Ventus Blue 7x

Taylormade Sim UDI 2i Hzrdus Handcrafted Black 105x

Callaway Tour Issue Apex 2019 Hybrid @ 19* Veylix Rome 988X

Srixon z745 4-PW Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100

Taylormade MG2 51* SB, 56* TW Grind, 60* TW Grind Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S400

Odyssey WH Pro #7 | Byron Morgan DH89 34.75/70*/2*

Srixon Z-Star XV

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Been seeing comments like yours even more often than I see blade vs CB threads, for 20+ years, LOL. The population of golfers on WRX is not representative of what you see at your local muni, or even your local private club. This is the lunatic fringe of golfers, only those who are really into golf, and/or the sticks we use to hit those little balls around a field.

I used to think I was a pretty long hitter, 20 years ago. Never ran into anyone who was longer, occasionally some that were as long. Discovered there were some golf forumites in my area, there was some chatter about meeting up and playing, set up a round of golf with one of them. May, 2000, if anyone cares; we were still playing sub-300cc drivers, he was using the Titleist Professional 90.

Didn't pay attention to what he was hitting on each hole, until we got to a par 4. It was about 400 yds. I hit driver, hit one in the fairway with my KZG MP, was happy with it. He steps up with his Steelhead 3w, and promptly airmails my tee shot, by quite a bit. He'd hit it so far by me I had him use his Bushnell to see just how far it went, it was 320. He'd shorthopped a tree with a double cross draw. Guess I wasn't all that long a hitter.

If this were an isolated incident, it would be no big deal, but it's been anything but that. I've met at least a couple dozen golf forumites, hdcps ranging from plus to over 20, swingspeeds ranging from 90s to long drive competitor. None of these guys have been lying, or even exaggerating. Interestingly, I've found some may have understated it a bit (one long drive level guy in particular).

Point of all this drivel... don't assume what you see on WRX bears any resemblance to what you see at your local course, or in your local store/fitting studio. We're collectively atypical.

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft pending); 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, DGS400; Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Ram Watson Scoring System 55*, DGX 7i shaft; Ram TG-898, DGS400; Ram TG-898, NV105 S; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS300; Ram 1982 Commemorative Nickel 58*, Dynamic S; Ram TW282, DGS; Ram TW276, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 58*, Dynamic S; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, DGS400; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, NV105 S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional or TaylorMade TP5

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That's exactly why I switched to the clubs I did, back in 2001. The results were light years different.

My test club was an MP14, but I was too cheap to buy a set back then. I've often wondered how life would be different if I had gone with them. If at all. LOL

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The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft pending); 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, DGS400; Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Ram Watson Scoring System 55*, DGX 7i shaft; Ram TG-898, DGS400; Ram TG-898, NV105 S; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS300; Ram 1982 Commemorative Nickel 58*, Dynamic S; Ram TW282, DGS; Ram TW276, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 58*, Dynamic S; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, DGS400; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, NV105 S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional or TaylorMade TP5

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A number of years ago I purchased a set of ultra game improvement irons, loaded with technology. I figured they would be so easy to hit. I was wrong. More often than not I hit a lot of low hooks with them. One day I was playing with a friend, and teed off with a 4-iron...yep, hooked it into the woods. He suggested I try his 4-iron, which was the Nike VR Pro blade. I thought he was delusional, I mean if I can't hit the most forgiving, easiest iron on the planet, how could I hit an MB? Well, I gave it a shot...so to speak...and the difference was night and day. I hit a nice, high baby draw. Through out the round I would hit his irons and the overall result was a vast improvement over the UGI irons. After that, I always found the concept of "forgiveness" a bit suspect.

I posted that experience on this forum and was harshly flamed. One guy said it was scientifically impossible for me to hit the MB better than the UGI iron. Well, I was there and he wasn't, and I did hit it better. He kept saying it was impossible, and that I was lying. Some people are going to believe what they believe, despite any evidence to the contrary. And sure, maybe in this case the majority of golfers will hit a GI better than an MB...but that doesn't mean this is the case in each and every instance. There are always exceptions, and people should be open minded enough to realize that.

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You are on a niche forum and are surprised a lot of the members are low handicap players? Anyways here is a quick cut and paste from my email showing my handicap at its lowest. Right now I am in the upper single digits due to nagging injuries since this time period but im working on it.

 

Not sure why I have to validate myself but here you go. Scrubbed out my name and part of my GHIN but I think you get the point

YOUR UPDATED USGAHANDICAP IS:3.0

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labelb01.gif

labelb02.gifName: 

Club: Fair Oaks Golf ClubClub #: 27-415-01

Scores Posted: 0GHIN #: 0974

USGA HCP Index: 3.0

Effective Date: 04/15/2018CH: 3

labelb07.gif

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labelb04.gif

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Good response. I'm a legit +2 or +3 and rather than posting my handicap you can pm me and I'll send you links to my tournament results.

Back to the topic, I've played some form a blades since right before college. Every winter I get a bug and decide to try something more game improvement, buy them, and then sell them a month or two later (at a substantial loss). I don't really work the ball so my benefitting from a blade is arguable but I just hit a smaller headed iron better and always have.

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My story is similar, but driving range demo "contest" of sorts. The results were only slightly less stark than yours.

Which then turned into a Golden Ram purchase, and several Ram vs CB on-course contests.

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The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft pending); 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, DGS400; Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Ram Watson Scoring System 55*, DGX 7i shaft; Ram TG-898, DGS400; Ram TG-898, NV105 S; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS300; Ram 1982 Commemorative Nickel 58*, Dynamic S; Ram TW282, DGS; Ram TW276, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 58*, Dynamic S; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, DGS400; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, NV105 S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional or TaylorMade TP5

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My 18 year-old son has just started to play and somehow my MP4s have found their way into his bag and I’ve had to buy a new set! He’s pretty much striping them after a few months practice ?

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Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
Callaway XR Speed 3W Project X HZRDUS T800 65 Stiff
Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
Cobra King CB/MB Flow 4-6, 7-PW C-Taper Stiff
Wilson Staff PMP wedges 50/54/58 KBS Hi-Rev 2.0
Radius Classic 8

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Likely because the benefits of a CB lessen more and more getting into short irons. Nearly all golfers switch to a blade in their GW or SW for instance. For proficient golfers, a blade in the 7-PW is no issue really. The difference in misses is pretty small. 4-6 though you need to be a proper ball striker to consistently get what you need out of them IMO.

Callaway Mavrik SZ 8* Rogue White 130MSI 70x | Ventus Black 6x

Callaway Mavrik SZ 15* Rogue White 130MSI 80x | Ventus Blue 7x

Taylormade Sim UDI 2i Hzrdus Handcrafted Black 105x

Callaway Tour Issue Apex 2019 Hybrid @ 19* Veylix Rome 988X

Srixon z745 4-PW Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100

Taylormade MG2 51* SB, 56* TW Grind, 60* TW Grind Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S400

Odyssey WH Pro #7 | Byron Morgan DH89 34.75/70*/2*

Srixon Z-Star XV

Ping Hoofer

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I agree with balls_deep. I can hit MBs absolutely no problem in 7 to PW. 6 Iron is here and there, and 5 iron totally falls apart. I absolutely do not have the ball striking capabilities to hit mid to long MBs well.

The thing I like about MBs or CBs in the short irons, is the really thin sole. Also, my 9 iron flight is 120 yards. There are almost no circumstances I blade it or clip it clean and get 140+ out of it. With game improvements because of the perimeter weighting, that is a possibility. It happens, and it costs more strokes than flighting a 9 Iron 110 or 115 on a thin mishit.

So while I prefer MBs or CBs in 7 to PW, if I need a little more oomph in the long irons, so be it. What do I care? They're legal.

Ohh and forged clubs look cooler.

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