2020 Phoenix Area Course Conditions

[Bonneville85308]

On 11/25/2020 at 1:37 PM, dtm6582 said:

 

Played it last Sunday (11/22).  The gentleman I played with plays there weekly and mentioned it was playing "long".  I definitely get where he was coming from.  Greens were fairly fast but really soft.  5/6 irons sticking soft.  Not sure I've ever played it in that condition before.

 

Definitely got less roll-out on the fairways too, when I bothered to put my ball on one anyway. 

 

I played Aguila this morning and it was the same, the softest I remember seeing those greens in a long time, they are usually really firm. I had some greenside pitches with my 54 degree wedge just about stop dead upon landing which is usually not the way they roll out at Aguila. The greens were really pockmarked with previously-repaired ballmarks, still pretty fast though, and I was very pleased with conditions on the course overall. I love the course but it's becoming darn near impossible to get an early morning weekend tee time there between the blocks of times reserved for traveling leagues/private events and demand in general, even with the city card. It's probably going to become a weekday-only course for me. If I ran the place, I wouldn't allow the leagues/private events on weekend mornings, you can't tell me it's a revenue thing because those times would sell out to the general public the day the tee sheet opens.

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Bonneville85308

[Argonne69]

Longbow early this morning. It would be nice if they cleared a few walking paths between the teeboxes and fairways. Love courses that allow walking, and then discourage it by making it difficult.

 

The course is as green as can be. First one with actual rough that I've played on this trip. The fairways are shaggy, and there's practically no rollout. Bunkers are OK. Greens are only rolling 8 at best, and they look like the surface of the Moon. FFS. Doesn't anyone know how to fix a ball mark? Pace was nice. Another single and I were the first ones out, and we finished in just under 3 hours. The teesheet was packed until late afternoon, so I expect later rounds are going to be quite long. 

 

[jatrain]

Cave Creek yesterday. No complaints for what it is. A few mud balls but I think it isn’t as bad as previous reports. Best/quickest putting greens I’ve played since overseed (GCU, Encanto, Longbow, Southern Dunes). 

[Argonne69]

2 hours ago, jatrain said:

Cave Creek yesterday. No complaints for what it is. A few mud balls but I think it isn’t as bad as previous reports. Best/quickest putting greens I’ve played since overseed (GCU, Encanto, Longbow, Southern Dunes). 

 

Good to hear. I'll be out there tomorrow morning and it would be nice to have some speedier greens. 

 

[ferrispgm]

played Aguila over the weekend.....great shape...some ball marks on the greens but not bad....the greens were rolling pretty quick....bunkers in good shape as were the fairways...they were still a tad soft but not enough to where you got any dirt on the ball.  Biggest complaint was the pin placements....literally everything on the side of a hill....No joke had like 6 or 7 putts just keep trickling like 4 feet by and then had to play the next one a cup outside the hole...crazyness....but glad to see the course in great shape!

[MackDaddy480]

1 minute ago, ferrispgm said:

played Aguila over the weekend.....great shape...some ball marks on the greens but not bad....the greens were rolling pretty quick....bunkers in good shape as were the fairways...they were still a tad soft but not enough to where you got any dirt on the ball.  Biggest complaint was the pin placements....literally everything on the side of a hill....No joke had like 6 or 7 putts just keep trickling like 4 feet by and then had to play the next one a cup outside the hole...crazyness....but glad to see the course in great shape!

Just curious, when did you tee off and what was the pace?

[ferrispgm]

1 minute ago, MackDaddy480 said:

Just curious, when did you tee off and what was the pace?

I teed off later than I normally do but 9:20...got done in like 4:15...had a wait on most holes of like a minute or two each on the tee. Overall not bad considering how busy it was and late.  I normally tee off before 8.

[Argonne69]

Cave Creek this morning. Yup, the greens had been cut, and were rolling 9 to 10. A few uphill putts still struggled to get to the hole, and a few downhill putts ran past a good ways. I wouldn't call them speedy, but compared to what we've been playing on the past few weeks they were quite nice. 

 

Fairways on the other hand were wet and muddy. Again, they must have given the course a thorough soaking last night. There were a few spots with standing water, and many balls picked up mud. Walking was hazardous in spots with the wet turf. 

 

Pace was decent at an even four hours.

 

[Bonneville85308]

Has anyone played Dobson Ranch recently that can comment on the state of affairs? I understand some kind of new management company took over in the past year or so. Do they still offer a walking rate? I see county, city, and non-resident riding rates on their site but zilch about walking, and they weren't answering the phone when I called to ask. I'm considering playing there in a week or so.

[MackDaddy480]

7 minutes ago, Bonneville85308 said:

Has anyone played Dobson Ranch recently that can comment on the state of affairs? I understand some kind of new management company took over in the past year or so. Do they still offer a walking rate? I see county, city, and non-resident riding rates on their site but zilch about walking, and they weren't answering the phone when I called to ask. I'm considering playing there in a week or so.

Yes, I am a member in the men's club. I have not played there in a couple weeks, but it was in pretty solid shape post overseed. The greens were actually rolling pretty nice, just on the slower side but I am sure they have sped up by now. 

 

The new management company has done a great job with the course/range/restaurant. The course was in very nice shape all summer and they just leveled out and re-sodded all of the par 3 tee boxes so they are all perfectly flat.

 

Yes they still offer walking rates, I believe that the rates that are listed online include the cart fee in them. I think that carts are an additional $15 or so.

 

[Argonne69]

45 minutes ago, MackDaddy480 said:

Yes, I am a member in the men's club. I have not played there in a couple weeks, but it was in pretty solid shape post overseed. The greens were actually rolling pretty nice, just on the slower side but I am sure they have sped up by now. 

 

The new management company has done a great job with the course/range/restaurant. The course was in very nice shape all summer and they just leveled out and re-sodded all of the par 3 tee boxes so they are all perfectly flat.

 

Yes they still offer walking rates, I believe that the rates that are listed online include the cart fee in them. I think that carts are an additional $15 or so.

 

 

Why do courses make it so difficult to book a walking rate? FFS. If you select a walking rate on the booking engine's 'Transportation' filter, no tee times are available. If you select 'Any' the riding rates show up. Last time I checked it was 2020. Why the hell do we have to call a course and talk to Goober in the pro shop to book a tee time, and then have to go into the shop to pay instead of prepaying online? Grrrr. 

 

[Bonneville85308]

46 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Why do courses make it so difficult to book a walking rate? FFS. If you select a walking rate on the booking engine's 'Transportation' filter, no tee times are available. If you select 'Any' the riding rates show up. Last time I checked it was 2020. Why the hell do we have to call a course and talk to Goober in the pro shop to book a tee time, and then have to go into the shop to pay instead of prepaying online? Grrrr. 

 

 

Preach it, brother! It's especially stupid that Dobson has the exact same booking engine as a bunch of other courses (Union Hills for example) that do allow you to select a walking rate online, Dobson (and others) apparently just choose not to use the capability. 

[AzSuperHack76]

Wigwam Red, first time out since the week after overseed. Such better shape, no complaints. Teed off at 930, did not have a group in front or behind us the entire round, it was so nice for a change, played in 3:30. 

[Argonne69]

Beautiful morning out at Talking Stick Piipaash. There was a 15 minute frost delay, but it warmed quickly after that. I can't get enough of this weather. Conditions were excellent. The fairways were a little wet after an early morning watering, but there were no mud balls. Bunkers were wonderful. Greens were similar to Cave Creek, rolling 9 to 10. I think I fixed only two or three ballmarks all morning. With no measurable rain in the last umpteen weeks, the greens are very firm. 

 

Pace was great thanks to the wise starter. He split the first group into a pair of twosomes. I was first off the tee with another single, and we finished in just under 3 hours, with the second pair right behind us. This gave the next few groups an open course to make up the lost time. Nice. 

 

First visit to Wigwam Blue tomorrow. 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

First visit to Wigwam Blue this morning. Meh. Some of the smallest greens I've played in some time. They did provide a level of defense given the shortness of the course. 'Definitely prefer the other two. Conditions were so-so. The fairways were thin in spots. Bunkers are in need of a few truckloads of sand. They were in the process of top dressing the greens, so they were sandy and slow, rolling 7 to 8 at best. There was a one hour frost delay this morning, but thanks to a wonderful starter it was a quick round. I was the only single, so when the hold was lifted he sent me out first as a single, allowing me to play in 2:30. 

[Soloman1]

On 11/30/2020 at 2:37 PM, Bonneville85308 said:

Has anyone played Dobson Ranch recently that can comment on the state of affairs? I understand some kind of new management company took over in the past year or so. Do they still offer a walking rate? I see county, city, and non-resident riding rates on their site but zilch about walking, and they weren't answering the phone when I called to ask. I'm considering playing there in a week or so.

 

It's a great place to catch Covid. No one at the course (proshop, or in the restaurant) wears masks. Never seen anywhere like it. No barriers, restaurant packed with people elbow to elbow. Course was just ok, but boring. I can't remember a single hole.

[tcbringhurst]

2 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

First visit to Wigwam Blue this morning. Meh. Some of the smallest greens I've played in some time. They did provide a level of defense given the shortness of the course. 'Definitely prefer the other two. Conditions were so-so. The fairways were thin in spots. Bunkers are in need of a few truckloads of sand. They were in the process of top dressing the greens, so they were sandy and slow, rolling 7 to 8 at best. There was a one hour frost delay this morning, but thanks to a wonderful starter it was a quick round. I was the only single, so when the hold was lifted he sent me out first as a single, allowing me to play in 2:30. 

Have you played gold or red? I’ve only played the gold and was going to try the red based on your post and another one further up

[Soloman1]

I think the red is much better than the blue.

[Argonne69]

2 hours ago, tcbringhurst said:

Have you played gold or red? I’ve only played the gold and was going to try the red based on your post and another one further up

 

Yeah, I've played both Gold and Red. I prefer Gold, but Red is not bad 

 

[Argonne69]

Pleasant morning out at We Ko Pa (Saguaro) this morning. The course is in perfect shape. The fairways are a tad shaggy, but there was still some rollout. Greens were rolling ~10. Pace was excellent at 3:50. My kind of golf. It's a real coin flip as to which is my favorite course, Saguaro or Southern Dunes. 

[waylman]

Hey all, I'm coming to Scottsdale Dec 12/13.

Looking to squeeze in a couple rounds. Where should I play?

I would like to keep it under $200/round. Not really interested in super tight courses or anything gimmicky.

Huge elevation changes are not my cup of tea either.

 

Thanks, really appreciate any suggestions!

[Argonne69]

2 hours ago, waylman said:

Hey all, I'm coming to Scottsdale Dec 12/13.

Looking to squeeze in a couple rounds. Where should I play?

I would like to keep it under $200/round. Not really interested in super tight courses or anything gimmicky.

Huge elevation changes are not my cup of tea either.

 

Thanks, really appreciate any suggestions!

 

We Ko Pa Saguaro runs $175 if you book 8+ days in advance. Talking Stick's two courses are $125, and solid layouts. Grayhawk is ~$200. 

 

We Ko Pa Saguaro

 

[shortstop20]

Am I silly to even consider booking a round at TPC Scottsdale Stadium Course for 1:10pm on a Monday? The price is right but not sure what pace of play is like out there. Looks like sun down is about 5:20? This would be my first time playing the course.

 

I'm playing 36 the day before at Talking Stick so thinking I'll hang out in the morning and relax. Playing TPC would be a good afternoon. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by shortstop20

[puttnforthe8]

5 minutes ago, shortstop20 said:

Am I silly to even consider booking a round at TPC Scottsdale Stadium Course for 1:10pm on a Monday? The price is right but not sure what pace of play is like out there. Looks like sun down is about 5:20? This would be my first time playing the course.

 

I'm playing 36 the day before at Talking Stick so thinking I'll hang out in the morning and relax. Playing TPC would be a good afternoon. 

Almost no chance of finishing..or finishing the last 2-3 in the dark.  POP this time of year tends to be long...4hrs is highly unlikely.  So if you do book it, it will be a gamble on the finish.

[shortstop20]

3 minutes ago, puttnforthe8 said:

Almost no chance of finishing..or finishing the last 2-3 in the dark.  POP this time of year tends to be long...4hrs is highly unlikely.  So if you do book it, it will be a gamble on the finish.

Yeah, thanks, that's what I figured. I'll book for earlier or pass this time. 

 

[Argonne69]

Union Hills again today. In two weeks it seems conditions have deteriorated somewhat. There were thin patches in many fairways. The rough was non-existent in spots. The greens looked mediocre, with a number of bare spots. Speeds were still glacial at 7 to 8. Bunkers were fine, though. I like the layout, and the sub-$40 cost, but I have to find another cheap course in the area. Pace was fine. After an hour frost delay I was in the third group out. We didn't wait on a single shot all day, as the two groups in front were moving. Finished in 3:30.

 

[Bonneville85308]

On 12/4/2020 at 2:02 PM, Argonne69 said:

Union Hills again today. In two weeks it seems conditions have deteriorated somewhat. There were thin patches in many fairways. The rough was non-existent in spots. The greens looked mediocre, with a number of bare spots. Speeds were still glacial at 7 to 8. Bunkers were fine, though. I like the layout, and the sub-$40 cost, but I have to find another cheap course in the area. Pace was fine. After an hour frost delay I was in the third group out. We didn't wait on a single shot all day, as the two groups in front were moving. Finished in 3:30.

 

 

I played there this morning. Woof. I really like the layout too but the conditions completely turned me off, probably won't be going back for awhile. This course's conditions are always at least one notch below its neighbors like Palmbrook and the Sun City-run courses. Greens were really inconsistent in speed from one to the next, none of us were making any putts. #1 green looked super shaggy like they forgot to cut it last time.  What the heck happened on #18 green, geez. The rough along the fairways has skipped right past the dormant bermuda phase and is basically just hardpan dirt and compressed weeds. This tells me it probably wasn't healthy during bermuda growing season either. Real frustrating to hit off of. In any other year I'd say it's not worth the $50-$60 they are charging on weekends.

 

At least the pace was good. We were one of the first 5 groups out after the frost delay lifted, finished in about 3:30 with no waiting and nobody pushing. 

[Argonne69]

16 hours ago, Bonneville85308 said:

 

I played there this morning. Woof. I really like the layout too but the conditions completely turned me off, probably won't be going back for awhile. This course's conditions are always at least one notch below its neighbors like Palmbrook and the Sun City-run courses. Greens were really inconsistent in speed from one to the next, none of us were making any putts. #1 green looked super shaggy like they forgot to cut it last time.  What the heck happened on #18 green, geez. The rough along the fairways has skipped right past the dormant bermuda phase and is basically just hardpan dirt and compressed weeds. This tells me it probably wasn't healthy during bermuda growing season either. Real frustrating to hit off of. In any other year I'd say it's not worth the $50-$60 they are charging on weekends.

 

At least the pace was good. We were one of the first 5 groups out after the frost delay lifted, finished in about 3:30 with no waiting and nobody pushing. 

 

I have a round booked at Palmbrook this Friday. We'll see how the two compare.

[Argonne69]

Another Monday, and another round at my adopted home course, Cave Creek. Conditions were similar to last week. Fairways were a little wet in spots, and I picked up a few mudballs. Greens were slightly slower than last week, but still had reasonable speed. Pace of play s-cked. I'll never understand why groups are fighting to be the early ones out, but then drag out their rounds. Starting on the 6th teebox the group in front of us and my group waited for the slowpokes ahead. Sorry, but it's never acceptable to have two groups together waiting to tee off. I finally said enough on the 14th tee. The slow group was in the middle of the 14th fairway, and the group ahead of them was hitting approached to the par 5 16th. I skipped 14 and 15, and played 16. 

 

First visit to Aguila this trip tomorrow.

[azgolfer44]

Played Papago, Aguila and Encanto in the City of Phoenix Two Man Championship this weekend.

 

Papago was superb.  Greens were very quick.  The head pro said they were running 12.5, which made it very tough.  Everything else was great as well.  Nothing to complain of at Papago.

 

Aguila was excellent as well.  Greens were not as quick as Papago, but still very good.  I found the greens receptive and some spots in the fairway were soft, which made the course play long, even from the silver tees.  For the money, right there with Papago.

 

Encanto, on the other hand, was not very good.  Greens and fairways were patchy.  I hit the fairway on hole 12 and was hitting off some type of tree bark.  Tees boxes now are crowned.  Rough was pretty much mud.  They are clearly having trouble with the irrigation system and the course is showing it age. Bunkers did have some fluffy sand, which I personally don't like, but it was the best part of the course.    Pace of play was also 4 hours 40 minutes which felt like 6 hours on a 6,100 yard course, playing for the third consecutive day.   I'd love to see them put some money into the course (like Del Urich in Tucson) but hard to see that happening with government budgets these days.  It is a nice-sized piece of property in a developing area of town. 

 

As far as the tournament....my partner and I were in the lead going into the last day but both did not play well on Sunday at Encanto.  The City could make a great event if they stuck with GCU, Papago and Aguila, but the entry fee would probably go up too.  They also need a time clock.