2020 Phoenix Area Course Conditions

[tcbringhurst]

Can anyone comment on Biltmore Adobe conditions? I played there a few weeks ago, and the greens were shaggy as hell. Just wondering if they've improved since then. I guess they had just come off the overseed.

[tcbringhurst]

Played Wigwam Red this morning. 1 hr frost delay. Other than the rocky bunkers, not much to complain about. The rough is starting to go dormant on some holes. Expect a half hour to an hour frost delay if you're going out in the morning

 

[MackDaddy480]

3 hours ago, azgolfer44 said:

Played Papago, Aguila and Encanto in the City of Phoenix Two Man Championship this weekend.

 

Papago was superb.  Greens were very quick.  The head pro said they were running 12.5, which made it very tough.  Everything else was great as well.  Nothing to complain of at Papago.

 

Aguila was excellent as well.  Greens were not as quick as Papago, but still very good.  I found the greens receptive and some spots in the fairway were soft, which made the course play long, even from the silver tees.  For the money, right there with Papago.

 

Encanto, on the other hand, was not very good.  Greens and fairways were patchy.  I hit the fairway on hole 12 and was hitting off some type of tree bark.  Tees boxes now are crowned.  Rough was pretty much mud.  They are clearly having trouble with the irrigation system and the course is showing it age. Bunkers did have some fluffy sand, which I personally don't like, but it was the best part of the course.    Pace of play was also 4 hours 40 minutes which felt like 6 hours on a 6,100 yard course, playing for the third consecutive day.   I'd love to see them put some money into the course (like Del Urich in Tucson) but hard to see that happening with government budgets these days.  It is a nice-sized piece of property in a developing area of town. 

 

As far as the tournament....my partner and I were in the lead going into the last day but both did not play well on Sunday at Encanto.  The City could make a great event if they stuck with GCU, Papago and Aguila, but the entry fee would probably go up too.  They also need a time clock.

I played in the tournament as well and echo all of your comments. Papago and Aguila were in awesome shape, Encanto on the other hand... My partner and I had probably a combined 15 mud balls in 18 holes that really hurt us out there. 

[azgolfer44]

16 hours ago, MackDaddy480 said:

I played in the tournament as well and echo all of your comments. Papago and Aguila were in awesome shape, Encanto on the other hand... My partner and I had probably a combined 15 mud balls in 18 holes that really hurt us out there. 

yeah, it didn't matter where you hit it, you got a mud ball. A couple times it was enough to completely change the trajectory of the ball, which is not helpful on greens that are small to begin with.

[MackDaddy480]

.

Edited December 8, 2020 by MackDaddy480

[MackDaddy480]

16 minutes ago, azgolfer44 said:

yeah, it didn't matter where you hit it, you got a mud ball. A couple times it was enough to completely change the trajectory of the ball, which is not helpful on greens that are small to begin with.

 Yes I had 250 in on #8 and turns out there was a huge clump of mud on the bottom of the ball that was not visible when it was sitting down in the dormant rough. Hit a perfect 2 hybrid and the ball sliced about 40 yards OB. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by MackDaddy480

[Argonne69]

Nice morning at Aguila. Fairways were on the wet side. Had a few mudballs. A number of spots were fairly thin, but overall the fairways were playable. Bunkers were fine. The greens were really nice. They were wet at the start of the round, and rolling 10 or so. They dried out by the turn, and were more like 11. 'Very easy to run a putt 6 to 8 feet past the cup. Pace was decent at an even four hours. It was so nice to play a round with four walkers. 

 

Mixing it up a little tomorrow with a round at Mountain Shadows. I have an iron fitting at PXG in the afternoon, so I'd like to have a little gas left in the tank. 

 

[azgolfer44]

1 hour ago, MackDaddy480 said:

 Yes I had 250 in on #8 and turns out there was a huge clump of mud on the bottom of the ball that was not visible when it was sitting down in the dormant rough. Hit a perfect 2 hybrid and the ball sliced about 40 yards OB. 

That is so brutal.  It could be such a fun course if they contoured some fairways, added some strategic bunkering, and made it play more firm and fast.  (I am more or less proposing what GCU did to Maryvale)

[MackDaddy480]

5 minutes ago, azgolfer44 said:

That is so brutal.  It could be such a fun course if they contoured some fairways, added some strategic bunkering, and made it play more firm and fast.  (I am more or less proposing what GCU did to Maryvale)

Yes, I agree. We were the last group out of the day and we were -3 as a team for the day on the tee box of that hole and the mud killed us.

 

Encanto probably has the lowest budget of all the PHX city courses which is unfortunate as they could make it so much better.

[Bonneville85308]

22 hours ago, tcbringhurst said:

Can anyone comment on Biltmore Adobe conditions? I played there a few weeks ago, and the greens were shaggy as hell. Just wondering if they've improved since then. I guess they had just come off the overseed.

 

No idea, but this time of year, that course is an absolutely terrible value/way overpriced even at the AZ resident rate, it is probably one of the last places I'd recommend playing in winter.

[Argonne69]

1 hour ago, MackDaddy480 said:

Yes, I agree. We were the last group out of the day and we were -3 as a team for the day on the tee box of that hole and the mud killed us.

 

Encanto probably has the lowest budget of all the PHX city courses which is unfortunate as they could make it so much better.

 

We're talking about Encanto, right? I don't think dropping an atomic bomb on the course would improve things. The layout/plot is just too flat and boring. It is what it is, an inexpensive muni for the masses. No amount of investment is going to turn it into an Aguila, Papago, or Cave Creek. OK, maybe a GCU, but that would take a whole lotta $$$.

 

[Bonneville85308]

18 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

We're talking about Encanto, right? I don't think dropping an atomic bomb on the course would improve things. The layout/plot is just too flat and boring. It is what it is, an inexpensive muni for the masses. No amount of investment is going to turn it into an Aguila, Papago, or Cave Creek. OK, maybe a GCU, but that would take a whole lotta $$$.

 

 

I have incredibly low standards and will play just about anywhere, but even I find Encanto to be too boring. It's basically my last resort in winter if I can't get an early tee time anywhere else affordable and walkable within 45 minutes of home. For such a flat, boring course I never seem to score well on it either. The greens are usually in nice shape, and they've fixed the concrete-hard bunker problem, but still..

Edited December 8, 2020 by Bonneville85308

[ferrispgm]

I agree Encanto is pretty plain....but I kind of like that...perfect for when you are working on some things and want to try it out on a course and still have playable shots when you miss...plus the small turtleback greens are a good test of short irons/wedges.  Cave Creek is another good one for this as well though much tougher on the putting side of things.

[Argonne69]

Fun morning at Mountain Shadows. Nice to take a little midweek break. The greens are kind of goofy, but at the same time they're quite fun. A few pins were in good positions to use the slopes as backstops. I didn't realize the course was all par 3s. I was expecting a few par 4s. Could use a few more midlength holes.

 

Conditions were excellent. Bunkers were the best I've played in over four weeks. Quite fluffy. Greens were rolling 10 to 11. 

 

Papago tomorrow. Looks like it might be a little wet. 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Argonne69

[shortstop20]

I'm pretty new to Phoenix golf as this was only my second trip but I played the following the last four days.

 

Talking Stick - O'odhaam. I thought this course was absolutely fantastic for the price and I would play it many more times. 

 

Talking Stick - Piippaash. Conditions just as good or nearly as good as O'odhaam but for some reason I preferred O'odhaam. Same good value. 

 

Las Sendas - Too many weird holes, wouldn't play again. Fine otherwise. 

 

Phoenecian - Got a $110 deal on GolfNow. Course is good for that price but I can't see the value of this place if I had to pay $200. Amazing views however. Conditions at Talking Stick are better. 

[Argonne69]

The golf gods were smiling on me this morning. I headed down to Papago in a heavy rain expecting to play a sloppy round. It was still raining when I pulled into the parking lot, but after 10 minutes the rain lightened, and stopped 15 minutes later. I managed to get in the remainder of the round before the sprinkles started again. 

 

Course was wet but playable. A few of the early holes were a tad mushy, but the latter holes were fine. Bunkers were obviously wet with a few small puddles. Greens? Oh, Lord, were they fast. Had to be running at least 11 or more. Can't imagine what they'll be running when they dry. 

 

I was the first, and only player on the course, so pace was not an issue. Never grow tired of having a course to myself. As I stood on the 9th tee I saw a few groups out on the opening holes, so I wasn't the only one taking a chance today. 

 

As I was putting on the second green my (drying) umbrella decided to take a tour of the third hole. I gave up chasing it after 50 yds, and headed over to the teebox to play the hole. Luckily the umbrella found its way into the greenside bunker. Lol. 

 

Palmbrook early tomorrow. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Argonne69

[vallygolf]

 "Never grow tired of having a course to myself"

 

Well played on a rainy day.... I relish when rain blows in (every 3 years or so) I head right to the course for exactly this reason.  There is something about having the course to yourself that makes playing all the more gratifying.  Dont get me wrong, I really enjoy golf in groups, but I get the sentiment of playing on an empty course.

[ferrispgm]

Even better in a light rain or cool day on the course by yourself in my opinion....so peaceful and relaxing.  I had the pleasure of playing Verde River a few years back when we had snow on NYE...I tee'd off as the snow was melting around 9am and was the only time that showed up until like 12.....just outstanding.

[Argonne69]

Pleasant morning at Palmbrook. The course is in much nicer condition than Union Hills. It was rather damp early this morning, but things dried out for the most part by the turn. Fairways weren't getting a whole lot of roll. Thin in spots, but playable. The rough was a "quality" dormant Bermuda. Bunkers were fine. Greens looked nice, and were rolling at least 10. Overall very pleased with the conditions, although I do prefer the layout of Union Hills. The pace was nice. I was in the second group out, and we finished in 3:30.

 

[Argonne69]

Cave Creek again this morning. Chilly temps combined with wet fairways made the course play long. There was standing water in a few places, and I can't imagine it was caused by last week's rain. Overwatering? Anyway, still playable with a few mudballs, and a handful of areas that were basically GUR. Bunkers looked fine. Greens looked great, but were a little slow. I's say 9. Pace was solid at 3:50.

 

First visit to Tonte Verde (Ranch) tomorrow afternoon. 'Not a big fan of afternoon golf, but they don't allow public play in the morning. Hopefully the pace is good enough to get the round in before sunset.

 

[Bonneville85308]

4 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

Cave Creek again this morning. Chilly temps combined with wet fairways made the course play long. There was standing water in a few places, and I can't imagine it was caused by last week's rain. Overwatering? Anyway, still playable with a few mudballs, and a handful of areas that were basically GUR. Bunkers looked fine. Greens looked great, but were a little slow. I's say 9. Pace was solid at 3:50.

 

First visit to Tonte Verde (Ranch) tomorrow afternoon. 'Not a big fan of afternoon golf, but they don't allow public play in the morning. Hopefully the pace is good enough to get the round in before sunset.

 

 

I played CC Fri-Sat-Sun and it was progressively less wet each day. I know the men's club tournament on Saturday allowed everyone to lift-clean-place in the fairway because of mudballs.  I was told they were getting so much rain on Thurs that they didn't let anyone go out that day. Lots of mudballs Friday morning but almost none yesterday. They have been having trouble with that wet patch of mud on #18 fairway, I've seen people working on it but am not sure exactly what the fix is. 

 

I have a hunch that they tend to do the heavier watering early in the week and then lay off it later on in the week.

 

Edit: None of the above is meant to be a complaint whatsoever. The crew there does a great job keeping the course in very playable condition on a shoestring budget while it gets beaten on by a completely full tee sheet worth of players every single day, hard to find a better value in winter for a resident walker.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Bonneville85308

[Argonne69]

29 minutes ago, Bonneville85308 said:

 

I played CC Fri-Sat-Sun and it was progressively less wet each day. I know the men's club tournament on Saturday allowed everyone to lift-clean-place in the fairway because of mudballs.  I was told they were getting so much rain on Thurs that they didn't let anyone go out that day. Lots of mudballs Friday morning but almost none yesterday. They have been having trouble with that wet patch of mud on #18 fairway, I've seen people working on it but am not sure exactly what the fix is. 

 

I have a hunch that they tend to do the heavier watering early in the week and then lay off it later on in the week.

 

Yeah, Cave Creek was closed on Thursday. 

 

The 4th Fairway was also quite muddy. There was a section roped off that was solid mud. 

 

I have a feeling they let carts out on the course a day or two too early. 

[puttnforthe8]

Ambiente = fantastic; greens were fast.

Whirlwind Devils Claw = really good except for a few spots.

[Argonne69]

First visit to Tonto Verde's Ranch course this afternoon. Meh. A few interesting holes, but otherwise they all blend together. For $100 I was expecting more. Luckily I'm not a long hitter, or the washes at the end of 90% of the fairways would irk me to no end. Conditions were excellent. The rough still had a little green in it. Bunkers were wonderful. Greens looked great, and were rolling around 10. Pace was very good. I teed off as a single, and finally ran into traffic at the 8th hole. I followed the groups ahead, and finished in 3:30, a few minutes before sunset.

 

 

[Bonneville85308]

22 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

First visit to Tonto Verde's Ranch course this afternoon. Meh. A few interesting holes, but otherwise they all blend together. For $100 I was expecting more. Luckily I'm not a long hitter, or the washes at the end of 90% of the fairways would irk me to no end. Conditions were excellent. The rough still had a little green in it. Bunkers were wonderful. Greens looked great, and were rolling around 10. Pace was very good. I teed off as a single, and finally ran into traffic at the 8th hole. I followed the groups ahead, and finished in 3:30, a few minutes before sunset.

 

 

Is the course reasonably walkable? Just curious, never played either of the Tonto Verde courses yet myself.

[puttnforthe8]

2 hours ago, Bonneville85308 said:

Is the course reasonably walkable? Just curious, never played either of the Tonto Verde courses yet myself.

Both are simple walks - easier than Verde River if you ever walked that course.

[Argonne69]

10 hours ago, puttnforthe8 said:

Both are simple walks - easier than Verde River if you ever walked that course.

 

Yeah, I'd say Ranch is fairly easy. There are a few longer hikes between holes that cross streets in the housing development, e.g. the tunnel from 7 to 8. There are a few deep washes that cross the fairways that can't be crossed (#9), so you have to navigate over to the cart path. The course is relatively flat. For the most part they do a good job of providing a walking path of sorts between the teeboxes and fairways. I got a bit of help from an early walker with a three wheel pushcart, as I was able to follow their tracks through the desert areas.

 

I'm walking Verde River tomorrow.

 

[Argonne69]

Wednesday, and a short walk on an executive course. Today it was a first visit to Fountain of the Sun in Mesa. 'Not much to look at, but it did have a good mix of par 3s. The shortest was 130 yds, and a pair were 195+. Irons got a good workout today. Conditions were OK. Greens were in nice shape and rolling ~9. Bunkers were hardpan with rocks. Ugh. Fairways were in nice shape. Pace was very good at 3 hours. 

 

Definitely wouldn't make the trek out there to play it again, but it served its purpose today. 

 

[Argonne69]

A chilly morning at Verde River. It's been 10 years since I last played the course, back when it was Vista Verde. I'd say the walk is a little harder than Verde River Ranch. Conditions were excellent. Fairways were lush. Bunkers were sandy. Greens looked great, and my they were speedy. I'd say they were pushing 11. Pace was not an issue. I was the first one out as a single, and had the course to myself. 'Walked the round in 2:40.

 

 

[YMark]

Played Dobson Ranch yesterday. Tee to green was ok, but the bunkers sucked as did the elephant greens. Green fee and a small bucket came to $69 + tax since I said I was from Phoenix when I was asked. Guess Mesa residents might get some kind of break. Our 4some also got to follow a 5some which they apparently don't have a problem with. I won't be back, especially not for that kind of cash.