How soon before Spieth drops out of the top 50

[LICC]

Duval had major back problems. Different situation.

[RareSight]

Swing improvement & refinement have been about since the birth of golf, and changing or tweaking a swing is the vehicle to this improvement & refinement.

Whatever plan Spieth & Cameron agreed to & undertook together clearly hasn’t worked, but Spieth knows he can’t blame Cameron as he knew the risks ahead of time. Sure nothing lasts forever with continued poor results, but their relationship hasn’t got to this point yet because it’s likely Spieth is aware Cameron understands his swing better than anyone else, and it makes sense for them to attempt to return to pastures green which Cameron was also pivotal in building & planning.

[RareSight]

I believe in that book he points to approach shots as being the most critical area explaining that’s where players gain most of their scoring from.

[bladehunter]

I agree with that as a hope.

 

As in i I hope that they have seen the error of their ways and are reversing course. But I’ve seen no evidence in his swing to suggest that. I’m not down on McCormick. But. Depending on what he’s telling his player , I could be quickly. But we don’t know what those conversations consist of.

[Paddy_2_Iron]

So help me understand this....

Brand new golfer, terrible at everything. Scale 1 - 10 he's a 1..... He should practice his approach shots first and foremost? I get in theory that if this individual had such a dominate approach game he could over come 100 yard worm burners off the tee that would be fine, but at some point a person has limits.

What I am getting at is , A to B to C. A being the Fairway, B being the Green, C being the hole. The probability of B happening is much greater if A happens. A is not dependent on B. C (the end game) is dependent on both.... B obviously is dependent on A.

The most important factor is getting off the tee box effectively. I agree there is a law of diminishing returns in anything in life. But I would think pragmatically that tee box performance is the most important.

14 out of the 18 holes it allows you hit a fairway at a reasonable distance (assuming the individual is playing from the correct tees). The other 4 holes it allows you to hit a green.

I'm torn to be honest.......

[bladehunter]

We’ve beat this horse to death here. Truth is you need A B and C. You can’t score with just A. Ask phill. He’s playing closer to the hole ( fairway or rough ) and scoring way worse. And yet Tiger lays back a lot of the time , and has one of the best B games ( approach ) on earth.

 

So yes. It’s al true depending on how you tilt the picture. But. You can’t score without all 3.

[Paddy_2_Iron]

I get that all 3 are important not sure where that was lost.... No one is saying that. We are merely ranking them, or weighting them however you want to describe it.

But the tee shots is critical. When Keegan Bradley won the PGA the big enabler was his ability to strip drives to fairway over long distances. David Duval career was upended due to injury but from what another poster mention was his inability to hit fairways which neutralized his approach. You point is taken about Tiger, heck that one British open he hit iron off the tee and found fairways, which again strengthens my point. You gotta hit fairways (in most scenarios).

Even as a hack golfer I realize that. When I hit fairways and keep the ball in play it's almost always under a 100 sometimes close to 89....... I am getting legitmate opportunities to hit greens, usually doesnt happen at my skill level but it can. If im 120 yards off in the rough 200 out, lol... Well you get it.

I get it if you are missing 4 footers you are done. If you are unable to locate greens from 120 out you are toast, but...... The key enabler is the drive or rather the tee shot.... There are other factors course conditions, set up, rough length, capability of the golfer....

[Ferguson]

The story of Jordan Spieth in pictures...................................

 

 

 

 

[Paddy_2_Iron]

Grabbed some of the data and tossed into visualization program to really look at the data by groupings to see where he is struggling this year relative to the previous years.....

I realize it's relative to the amount of rounds played and Jordan still has a long way to go but..... A couple of items stuck out.

2020 his rough proximity has been really bad. Off the charts bad whereas his proximity from the fairway is great. In fact it's the best it's been in his career (again 2020 SSS). 2019 being his worst. Even when you break it out right long and left long it's tops the charts. (Not in a good way)

Rough Prox is 59 feet (2020) whereas his best year (2013) was 37.11, 2015 was really close 37.7

Fairway Prox is 26.4 2020 and his next best is 2015 29.11

I found that interesting......

If he can find a tourney where he hits most if not all fairways he should fair extremely well.

I was wrong.

 

 

 

[North Texas]

His tee to green game is inexplicably bad. And, as I pointed out in a previous post, it wasn't a gradual decline. It literally happened overnight. From 2014 to 2018, his tee to green game was pretty steady and was really good in 2017 and 2018. Then in 2019, it went completely south on him. And it's even worse so far in 2020.

[bladehunter]

Yep. I just happen to think that it’s really takes all 3 equally.

Or one exceptionally well and the other two average and consistent. Phil proved the tee ball being most important wrong for a long time. Guy made birdies from deaths door. Plenty of others have ( tiger ). If tee ball were end all be all , then the Zach Johnson’s of the world would win more. Give me a guy who’s long and wildy with driver great approaches and good putter any day. Why do I say that ? Experience and pressure.

 

A great putter takes pressure off everything else. Because he knows he can make a lot of 1 putts. A great driver puts pressure on all other parts of the game. Why ? Every green he misses after a great drive , and every putt missed after a great drive piles on pressure. As in missed opportunities.

all that rambling said. A great driver is not going to score alone. You need the other two equally. Or at least putter equally. Ask Rory. His game from putter on to putter off is night and day.

[Steele47]

LMAO!

[the bishop]

For me I can distill his problems down to a couple of categories:

He and Cameron messed with a swing that was working. Whatever the reason was they shouldn't have done it. Furyk has a swing you wouldn't teach anyone yet he's the only guy with 2 sub-60 rounds on Tour and the only guy to shoot 58 in a Tour event. He's fallen off only because father time is winning as he always does. But he and his dad never messed around with his action. He's not an all time great maybe but an enviable career no doubt. As another poster pointed out he's known nothing but success since he picked up a golf club. And when you tinker with a swing and it doesn't work and you really struggle for the first time it can be hard to deal with. Seems to be a nice kid and I hope he finds his way back. But nothing is guaranteed.

[Paddy_2_Iron]

 

In a couple of months I'll reload the 2020 data and then see if it normalizes or continues this trend.

Another look at this....

Consolidating previous post to this one....

Grabbed some of the data and tossed into visualization program to really look at the data by groupings to see where he is struggling this year relative to the previous years.....

I realize it's relative to the amount of rounds played and Jordan still has a long way to go but..... A couple of items stuck out.

2020 his rough proximity has been really bad. Off the charts bad whereas his proximity from the fairway is great. In fact it's the best it's been in his career (again 2020 SSS). 2019 being his worst. Even when you break it out right long and left long it's tops the charts. (Not in a good way)

Rough Prox is 59 feet (2020) whereas his best year (2013) was 37.11, 2015 was really close 37.7

Fairway Prox is 26.4 2020 and his next best is 2015 29.11

I found that interesting......

If he can find a tourney where he hits most if not all fairways he should fair extremely well.

I was wrong.

Data provided by the PGATOUR.COM

[bladehunter]

Lol. I like the colors. But never been a stats guy.

 

Dumb question. But I’ll ask it. The numbers are for proximity to the fairway and proximity to the rough ? As in one is in they fairway and one in the rough. Or ?

[Paddy_2_Iron]

For sure its fairway and rough to the green. I'm assuming the north star is the actual pin.....

These numbers are way in their infancy so clearly some normalization of distribution will occur.

I realize it's a small sample size (SSS) but I really don't enjoy only looking at the past. I like to see how someone is doing, current state. I suppose a flaw of sorts. One tourney can totally blow out the numbers.

But..... What I was interested in his prox to the pin has been pretty damn good from the fairway this season. Could the swing change mainly effect his ability to judge out of the rough? That is a more guessing feel game than pinching it off the fairway (says the dork who can't break 100)......

That's where you better golfers can offer your opinion.

BTW If I don't get banned (I had some complaints) I will breakdown Jason Day. I'll review his numbers and see if I can find some patterns between his winning and his performance metrics. Might be similar.....

Besides my social behavior doesn't gel well on forums.... In person I think people just get a laugh out of me.

[Golfingfanatic]

Another slow start for Spieth. Just saw his tee shot on 10. He never looked comfortable over the ball if you ask me for this shot.

[bladehunter]

Well. Welcome if nobody else said so.

 

you'll be fine , just attempt to see the other side ( yes I am imperfect for sure at this ) and remain civil. They haven’t run me off ( yet) so there’s hope for you. Loll.

 

[Irishman1979]

I still remember when I watched him dominate and win the John Deere Classic and was the next big thing.

I don't even think he would win that event ever again no matter if he was in the field. His time has passed.

[grm24]

YJS won The John Deere Classic twice in playoffs. Far from domination.

[gvogel]

Bogeyed his last hole today. it looks like he will miss the cut by 1.

More time to work on his swing this weekend.

[gvogel]

He also strengthened his grip by 5* and hit 16 of 18 greens, so maybe he's on to something.

[North Texas]

Think I read he did that just this week. First round was pretty bad and second round was much, much better. What was also interesting was that his strokes gained driving stats for both rounds were in line with his better years when he was in the top 50 in that category. Of course, his strokes gained putting might had been last in the field this week.

Will be interesting to see if this will hold up over the next several weeks at Pebble and Riviera.

[DivinDave]

Speith won't ever be back to what he once was. He's done.

[mocokid]

Golf history is littered with guys who got to the top then decided they had to get even better. Perfect is the enemy of good (enough) someone said.

[duffer987]

Indeed. Just look at Paddy, he had a similar Majors run to Jordan, figured he'd needed to get 'better' than the form that gave him 3 majors in a couple years and well... next thing you know he's grinding out his next wins in Florida and Portugal 8 or so years later.

[MOAB]

This!

[CasualLie]

Just to tease the Spieth fans, here comes a top 10 this week for the fake comeback.

[braincramp52]

You mean done like Tiger Woods was done at the end of 2018? You may be right but he's still a young guy and is competitive as they come. I wouldn't count him out yet.

[bladehunter]

I think I’ve heard that somewhere before. Hmmmm. 82 ? 83????

 

lol. I said the same about tiger. And then I laughed at them. I’ll do it again with this guy. Wait and watch. The light bulb will go off one day and he’ll play golf again instead of swing. When he does it will rain wins.