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Package "delivered" but was not


nocarts83
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I sold a shaft recently and shipped via USPS with tracking. The tracking data says it was "delivered" but the buyer did not receive the item. On my receipt from the post office, it says "Cerritos, CA 90703", which is his address. On the tracking it says "Out for Delivery Cerritos, CA 90703" but then "Delivered Artesia, CA 90701." The stated delivery was on Friday and on Monday I called USPS and opened a case for the item. They are still looking into it, but claim that both zip codes are serviced by the same post office and that explains the discrepancy.

The buyer is (rightfully) unhappy and wants me to refund the transaction because the postal service review could take some time. I have suggested we see what happens with the postal service review first, and then if they claim it was delivered, he file with Paypal as we used G&S transaction. Based on my reading of the terms on Paypal, because I have the tracking receipt that shows it was delivered, I should also be covered under sellers protection (the transaction is labeled as "Seller protection eligible" and the item was well under the limit for requiring a signature). The buyer has stated he does not think I am covered because there's no proof it was delivered to his house. On the other hand, if the postal service determines it was lost, then I collect on the shipping insurance and refund the buyer.

Has anyone else run into this type of situation? What is the appropriate steps of action?

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I would get the buyer to start the Paypal process and then follow through to resolution. If PP says you have to wait until the PO process is complete then that's what you do.

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I am the buyer and the "delivery" was last Friday. On Monday I was told USPS would take 2-3 days and get back to seller. I said to seller that at end of week / or Thursday (I can't remember which I said) but I factored in 3 days, if it looked like it would be a drawn out process with no resolution at that point I wanted a refund and if it showed up, I would gladly pay him for it then. If everyone thinks it's correct for me to just start the PayPal dispute now, i will do that, but the seller asked I do not so the funds are not frozen on his end. The seller did not insure the shipment. That all being said seller has been in constant contact and is trying to find the shaft.

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Update: I just received a call from the post office that they believe the item was delivered properly. Their timeline does not match up with what the buyer and I have concluded from his Ring footage and the tracking scans, but there is no level of further recourse with USPS as they consider the case closed. They concurrently claim it was marked as delivered back at the post office after delivery because of a scrunched label and that it was delivered on Monday despite the scan occurring at 6:43 pm on Friday, and the Ring footage showing him at 6:48 pm on Friday.

At this point, my thought is that we should proceed with the Paypal resolution as the buyer has the evidence that he didn't receive the package and I have both the tracking data saying delivered as well as the closed USPS case number indicating they believe it was delivered properly.

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Typically USPS does not operate within the "expected delivery date" as their timeline for investigating, they will usually tell you it needs to be at least a few days up to even a week since the attempted delivery before you can file any claim or request a trace. That amount of time hasn't even passed yet so it's interesting that USPS has somehow already "closed" the case. The vehicles have gps information that should allow them to track the delivery and where it happened. I'm not sure how paypal will treat a dispute here since the package status is delivered and USPS says it was delivered appropriately. I assume any claim against insurance, even the standard $50 that comes with priority, would do nothing if USPS says it was delivered. Hopefully buyer/seller will work together for a resolution.

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The lack of a real effort by USPS is why I didn't want to go down the Paypal route immediately. I figured they'd stand behind their tracking saying "delivered" and I wouldn't be able to collect on the insurance, at which point I'd have more evidence to show Paypal that I'd exhausted all options.

My read on the Paypal rules (note this is my read...I've never been down this road before) is that if he files with Paypal, he's taken care of and will get his money. Assuming USPS failed here, I figured the only avenue to both of us coming out of this clean was for me to be able to have the data to defend my case with Paypal. If I issued the refund, my avenues are done because USPS closed the case, making insurance irrelevant.

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For some reason I was thinking of a non-delivery in my last post as far as the usps timeline, but I would still think it would take more than 1 day for them to conclude it was delivered correctly. I agree with the seeming lack of effort on USPS part but that should surprise exactly no one. It may take PayPals involvement to get further information but if USPS concludes that it was delivered correctly this may be one of those weird circumstances where I’m not sure what other recourse the buyer would have.

 

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There has to be some kind of dispute with the USPS outside of the local office. I can’t believe in the face of what you have to prove your timeline, they stand by a completely different delivery time and date with nothing to back that up other than their word. This can’t possibly be the claim procedure for the USPS, can it? Like, there’s no chance the local post office just gave you the brush off, assuming that’s as far as it would go? The scans associated with the tracking, as well as the buyer’s Ring footage, show a completely different delivery date than they claim, and their answer is that “no, what you saw is not true, it was delivered on Monday.” I’d be furious, like wanting to punch someone mad.

 

Also, you mentioned a Ring doorbell . Dumb question, but if it got the mailman delivering the package, did it catch anyone taking it? Seems like it’d be hard not to if it got the delivery. Call the police and file a report if so. At least you’d have that on file with PayPal. Although, at that point, would it be a PayPal claim, or a homeowners claim?

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It was never delivered. The Ring doorbell video footage clearly shows the mailman did not have the package in his hands and did not drop it off. On both the original day tracking showed it was delivered and the "new date" of yesterday when it was supposedly delivered. So even though in tracking the package was marked as delivered, the zip code of the delivery is wrong and my video footage shows the mailman did not have the package in his hands and never delivered the package.

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Does @brushie still have the Ring video? I’d be calling everyone with it - local news, tv, something. They love doing these types of stories on the evening news around here, the “gotcha” expose. It’s infuriating to me that you have video of them not delivering the item, and they have the audacity to tell you it’s wrong.
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One thing to bear in mind for the guys involved in the sale - I have a feeling that PayPal will side with the seller, as the item shows as delivered. Personally, I’d suggest trying to work out a compromise and maybe helping each other offset the USPS’s mistake. Neither of you did anything wrong, and at the end of the episode one of you is going to be left with nothing if you guys don’t step up and try to make a crappy situation less so.

**Driver:** TaylorMade SIM Max 9° **|** Ventus Black 7 Velocore **3wd:** Titleist TS2 15° (C1) **|** Diamana D+ LTD 70 **Hybrid:** Callaway Apex 18° **|** AD-DI 95 **Irons:** Mizuno MP 18 Fli Hi 4 iron **|** AD-DI 95**/** JPX 919 Forged 5-PW **|** Recoil 95 **Wedges:** Vokey SM8 raw 50°F (Handground S), 54°S, 58°M (Handground A) **|** DG Black Onyx **Putters:** Byron Morgan DH 89 WITB: https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1505670/goirish17s-witb-updated-end-of-page-2#latest

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Well, whether you consider it coincidence or connected, I got a voicemail from the post office that the carrier found it today and delivered it. Part of me wants to push harder to see why it was 1) scanned delivered on Friday 2) supposedly delivered Monday and 3) turned up after their story was questioned on Tuesday. I'm pretty sure I would remember when I delivered a 45" PVC pipe. At least it turned out the best it could for us.

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I bet there were no questions asked of the carrier, and they all probably had a good chuckle at the “stroke of luck” that turned up the club.

**Driver:** TaylorMade SIM Max 9° **|** Ventus Black 7 Velocore **3wd:** Titleist TS2 15° (C1) **|** Diamana D+ LTD 70 **Hybrid:** Callaway Apex 18° **|** AD-DI 95 **Irons:** Mizuno MP 18 Fli Hi 4 iron **|** AD-DI 95**/** JPX 919 Forged 5-PW **|** Recoil 95 **Wedges:** Vokey SM8 raw 50°F (Handground S), 54°S, 58°M (Handground A) **|** DG Black Onyx **Putters:** Byron Morgan DH 89 WITB: https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1505670/goirish17s-witb-updated-end-of-page-2#latest

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What I've seen with my own carriers is that often times packages are not delivered at the same time as normal mail, as they cannot carry multiple packages along their route. So they'll have to make a special stop to drop it off. My guess is the carrier either didn't have a chance, or desire, to drop it off on time and it never left the truck, yet somehow was scanned in. Once somebody came calling on it the carrier had to deliver it. I've seen it happen before, doesn't make it any less unnerving as a buyer or seller though.

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I've seen this happen firsthand. I was expecting a fairly expensive package, so I was kind of posted up the day it looked like it was going to be delivered. Watched mail man park his truck outside, make his rounds, and drive away. Checked the tracking, and it showed as "delivered". Figured it was a glitch and it'd arrive the following day. So, I left work a little early the next day to get home and make sure it was delivered, with enough time to call the local post office if it wasn't. It wasn't delivered the next day, so I had to call the post office and play phone tag for an hour while they tried to reach the carrier. Turns out, he did exactly what @VNutz described - scanned it in as delivered on the day it was supposed to be when he was delivering letters, and planned on coming back after his rounds when he could carry the package. He either forgot, or didn't have time to deliver that day, so he had planned on delivering the next day. But he forgot the package back at the post office that day. He was none too happy when he had to come back out after his rounds to special deliver my package. I didn't ask him if he wanted any cheese with his whine, but I should have.

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**Driver:** TaylorMade SIM Max 9° **|** Ventus Black 7 Velocore **3wd:** Titleist TS2 15° (C1) **|** Diamana D+ LTD 70 **Hybrid:** Callaway Apex 18° **|** AD-DI 95 **Irons:** Mizuno MP 18 Fli Hi 4 iron **|** AD-DI 95**/** JPX 919 Forged 5-PW **|** Recoil 95 **Wedges:** Vokey SM8 raw 50°F (Handground S), 54°S, 58°M (Handground A) **|** DG Black Onyx **Putters:** Byron Morgan DH 89 WITB: https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1505670/goirish17s-witb-updated-end-of-page-2#latest

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Do you think that the mail people are being judged by their employer based on hitting the expected delivery date?

E.g. if it's USPS Priority Mail and it is supposed to be delivered by Thursday, they will get in trouble if they don't deliver it by Thursday.

So, they scan it on Thursday as delivered, so that in the system is shows them delivering the package on time.

But in reality, they know that they will actually deliver it the next day or whatever?

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I’m sure it’s something like that. Metrics seem to drive everything these days. “See, Cliffy, mailman Bob has been meeting his Priority Mail Delivery Date and Correct Scan Rate percentages every week this quarter, we just don’t understand why you are consistently last in the office in these categories.” I’m sure my mailman responds to these questions by explaining that there’s this house on his route that is constantly getting long rectangle packages, and if he wants to get home in time to tuck in the rug rats, sometimes tough decisions need to be made between his grubby kids and old Brad’s next great driver.

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**Driver:** TaylorMade SIM Max 9° **|** Ventus Black 7 Velocore **3wd:** Titleist TS2 15° (C1) **|** Diamana D+ LTD 70 **Hybrid:** Callaway Apex 18° **|** AD-DI 95 **Irons:** Mizuno MP 18 Fli Hi 4 iron **|** AD-DI 95**/** JPX 919 Forged 5-PW **|** Recoil 95 **Wedges:** Vokey SM8 raw 50°F (Handground S), 54°S, 58°M (Handground A) **|** DG Black Onyx **Putters:** Byron Morgan DH 89 WITB: https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1505670/goirish17s-witb-updated-end-of-page-2#latest

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Thanks all. I agree that I've seen weirdness with when carriers scan and deliver at different times, but the exact timeline was what made this worse.

6:43pm Friday: scanned as delivered

6:48pm Friday: carrier walks up to buyer's door with 2 packages and scans each of them individually while standing at the door

Tuesday: Post office says the carrier couldn't scan the label so he brought it back to the post office to scan and then delivered it on Monday.

My 2 questions:

1) Why was that package scanned before the others? It would be one thing if he scanned them all beforehand for efficiency, but that wasn't the case.

2) How could it have been scanned back at the post office if it was only scanned 5 minutes apart from being at his door, and again, before he showed up at the buyer's house?

Anyway, it sounds like this type of thing is pretty common, and I'm particularly drained from dealing with it, so I'm unlikely to pursue it further. There are more important problems that also are more likely to have a solution, like world hunger and curing cancer.

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Trying to make sense out of a horribly run organization is a fools errand. I think you’re doing the right thing. There are many more fruitful ways to spend your energy instead of trying to right the wrongs of the USPS.

**Driver:** TaylorMade SIM Max 9° **|** Ventus Black 7 Velocore **3wd:** Titleist TS2 15° (C1) **|** Diamana D+ LTD 70 **Hybrid:** Callaway Apex 18° **|** AD-DI 95 **Irons:** Mizuno MP 18 Fli Hi 4 iron **|** AD-DI 95**/** JPX 919 Forged 5-PW **|** Recoil 95 **Wedges:** Vokey SM8 raw 50°F (Handground S), 54°S, 58°M (Handground A) **|** DG Black Onyx **Putters:** Byron Morgan DH 89 WITB: https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1505670/goirish17s-witb-updated-end-of-page-2#latest

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Absolutely not (to the performance metrics part). My father was a SPO (superintendent of postal operations, one step below a postmaster) for a number of years after he got out of the Army. Mail carriers had virtually no performance standards of any kind. He got my younger brother a summer job one year as a "casual carrier" (basically part-time non-union job) at another post office in a neighboring town, and my brother got yelled at by the regular mail carriers for delivering the mail too fast. Maybe things have changed in the 10 years since he retired, but I doubt it.

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Lol. Yeah maybe it hasn't changed.

But in the last 10 years I think most companies have gravitated more toward metrics/data tracking using newer/easier/cheaper/more powerful technology.

It probably depends where in the country we are talking about as well (some offices may be run differently than others).

It seems pretty clear that some delivery people are knowingly scanning stuff and knowingly not delivering it at that time. But, maybe it's just total laziness and sloppiness.

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I really can't think of any reasons to scan something as delivered and not deliver it, other than to fudge numbers or steal. If metrics weren't the issue, and it were laziness, why scan it at all? Just scan it whenever you get around to delivering it.

**Driver:** TaylorMade SIM Max 9° **|** Ventus Black 7 Velocore **3wd:** Titleist TS2 15° (C1) **|** Diamana D+ LTD 70 **Hybrid:** Callaway Apex 18° **|** AD-DI 95 **Irons:** Mizuno MP 18 Fli Hi 4 iron **|** AD-DI 95**/** JPX 919 Forged 5-PW **|** Recoil 95 **Wedges:** Vokey SM8 raw 50°F (Handground S), 54°S, 58°M (Handground A) **|** DG Black Onyx **Putters:** Byron Morgan DH 89 WITB: https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1505670/goirish17s-witb-updated-end-of-page-2#latest

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