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The idea is to grip the club in a manner that will bring the club face back to square without manipulation on your part. I'm having diffidently imagining how that can happen with the grip you descriv

In this thread there are a number of misconceptions about what Manny taught. For the benefit of those who want to swing the way he thought, a few clarifications. Manny used and taught the same swing

The grip can be a little tricky because our hands are different one from another. For that reason instead of mimicking exact position just take a grip in which the hands are balance with one another

Big lightbulb moment for me. Swing the CLUBHEAD over the trail shoulder! I was swinging the entire club over the trail shoulder, it is a different intent, that give different results. You feel much more coil by thinking clubhead, the plane also seems to be better.

I pick 14 of the following:
Ping G400
Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood
Ping G 400 4 hybrid
Ping G 4-U
Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS
Grips NDMC +4
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Hoofer
ProV1x-mostly
ECCO Biom Hybrid 3

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I've had the same kind of thing happen, which is why I periodically re-read parts of the book. Yesterday I came across a nugget that I have absolutely no recollection of reading before and I'm anxious to get to the practice range and play with it.

 

The book is kind of deceiving in its simplicity and it's important to try to understand and implement exactly as MLDT wrote. It sure would be valuable to have the help of an in person coach as far as keeping on track but juststeve is doing a pretty good job as a substitute!

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I have tried this method a few times the past 6 years. Bought the book and had a lesson. I have had some positive results but am easily distracted by shiny things. I have read through this entire thread over the last couple days and am recommitting myself. I planed to walk 9 before work this morning and give it a go. While hurrying around loading the vehicle I shut my right thumb in the rear hatch. I played anyway. Being right handed I thought it would not be an issue since it was the lower hand. It was a bit painful and wound up keeping it lifted off the grip. I only played 7 holes but was 1 over through those holes. Six pars , 1 bogey. My friend playing with me said he was going to carry a hammer and hit my thumb when I started playing poor

Steve H

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I was watching the 2006 British open this morning on the golf channel and watching Ernie and Demarco I noticed no left heel coming off the ground and they seemed to take the club back with just cocking of the hands getting the club head over the right shoulder.It looked so simple with no strain on your body just a nice easy swing.

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As soon as you introduce tension in the shoulders and use the upper body to propel the club you are introducing all kinds of issues. No matter what it looks like on film or photos, the primary power source will always be the arms and forearms with free shoulder and wrist joints. People are doing all kinds of crazy things in the swing, "firing the hips" and "letting the big muscles swing the little muscles"... it makes absolutely no sense. There is not one other athletic activity that a person would ever do those things... not one. I don't know how golf instruction went so far off the rails along the way. With that said, there are lots of great instructors out there that teach things correctly and understand kinesthetics and the sources of power, even if they aren't pushing the Ernest Jones / Manuel De La Torre method.

----------------
Golf Jobs
Driver: Titleist TS3 9.5 w/ Tensei Blue 55 S
3W: Titleist 915F 15 w/ Diamana D+ 80 S
3H: Titleist 915H 21 w/ Diamana D+ 90 S
Irons: 4-GW Titleist T100 w/ Project X LZ 6.0
Wedge: Vokey SM8 54.10S TC w/ Project X LZ 6.0

Wedge: Vokey SM8 60.04L TC w/ Project X LZ 6.0
Ball: 2019 Titleist ProV1

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Right or wrong, I think that Jim Flick's explanation made a lot of sense. He said that the key to success was learning how to swing the club while letting the body react (sound familiar?). He then went on to say that once this was mastered and consistent, he could introduce refinements in body mechanics that would make the swing more efficient and more powerful.

 

I think that the problem with most current golf instruction is putting the cart before the horse, ie, an emphasis on refining body mechanics BEFORE the student has learned how to swing the club properly.

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Too long and accross the line are not necessarily swing flaws as Manny Taught. The club is parallel to the target line whenever it is horizontal. This means in the back swing if the club is short of horizontal the club will appear laid off, and if past horizontal it will appear to be across the line.

The question is what is causing your too long and across the line? Are you losing control of the club at the end of your back swing? Are you failing to keep your left arm extended, not stiff bot extended? Are you failing to keep your right hand away from your head. Are you losing your posture? Are you letting your swing center drift? If it's none of these things then long and across the line just gives you more room to build speed, not a bad thing.

Steve

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i suspect you are right. Since my previous post I found out the last bone in my thumb is broken. I have an appt with the bone Dr tomorrow. I played 18 Sunday. The results were not as good as before but still promising considering the circumstances. I had quite a few birdie chances but only made 2. I also had 3 double bogies because I did factor in enough for the swinging easier so I did not take enough club then screwed up the chip.

By the time I finished 18 the thumb was throbbing. Likely from a couple time I hit down too steep on very dry and hard ground, and banging it on club heads.

Been icing it regularly. I hope it is a little less sore by the weekend. Our club championship is Fri, Sat, & Sun and I am looking forward to playing.

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I had that problem once in the past. Just know way to predict what the ball will do if the club is changing in your hands, or my hands at the time. The way I fixed it was by taking my grip and hitting a little shot, then hitting the same shot againg without reforming the grip. When I could do that I worked up gradually to full shots, applying the same hit another shot test. Took a bit of work but cured a serious fault.

Steve

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----------------
Golf Jobs
Driver: Titleist TS3 9.5 w/ Tensei Blue 55 S
3W: Titleist 915F 15 w/ Diamana D+ 80 S
3H: Titleist 915H 21 w/ Diamana D+ 90 S
Irons: 4-GW Titleist T100 w/ Project X LZ 6.0
Wedge: Vokey SM8 54.10S TC w/ Project X LZ 6.0

Wedge: Vokey SM8 60.04L TC w/ Project X LZ 6.0
Ball: 2019 Titleist ProV1

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Thanks for the link, I had not seen that video!

Seems that the drill of holding the club in the forefinger and thumb of one hand and letting it swing back and forth has value in finding the resonant frequency of the golf club. Also seems to fit with Earnest Jones assertion that good golf is played to perfect Waltz timing.

Very similar curves were generated when I had lessons using a Flightscope system. LOL my early acceleration on the downswing was very obvious and when I could swing in a way that would generate better curves I would hit the ball better with a lot less effort. I recall my instructor saying that if I could maintain my acceleration from the top on my poor swings I would have had some incredible clubhead speed at impact, I think around 150 or maybe 200 mph LOL.

I like his mentioning that Physics meets Zen in the end! Pretty cool stuff!

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Had 9 hole league last night. I played 9 holes before and hit several poor shots in a row. After one in particular I realized I was not staying centered. Focused on maintaining even distribution between feet and my head steady. Ball striking improved dramatically. League play is point quota. First hole I hit a great tee shot. My partner hit what he thought was his ball. I could not find mine so I dropped one in the fairway and played 4 from there. Had a 6 with the penalty, no points. When my partner putted out I picked up the ball and noticed it was mine )-: Neither of us scored on that hole. From then on I had 1 bogey and 7 pars. And struck the ball very well.

I finally got in to the bone Dr. she put a hard plastic cover with some kind of self sticking wrap over my thumb. I still had to hold it up off the shaft when I gripped but it gave me some protection. If I hit the ground a little hard it hurt like the dickens. By the end or the round it was throbbing and was this morning. I iced it while watching the depressing national news And it feels pretty good right now.

I am sold on the effectiveness and simplicity of the Swing when done properly.

Steve H

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