Manuel De La Torre Swing Focus

[Sean2]

@juststeve Thanks Steve!

[PChem]

Like others contributing to this thread, the Manuel de la Torre and Earnest Jones method has improved my golf game in all areas. I owe a debt of gratitude to Manuel de la Torre’s excellent book explaining short & long bunker shots, playing from various types of lies and simple psychological tips (Imagining driving the ball into the bunker wall is money!).

 

MDLT’s book recommends a comfortable stance with the feet more or less pointing perpendicular to the target line and the ball centered in the stance. MDLT goes on to say one can vary their address set up. The past year I’ve followed MDLT’s feet essentially straight ahead and the ball centered between the feet. Since last August my scores have increased mostly because of an increasing frequency of thin shots and worm-burner drives. This got worse around the same time my left knee went AWOL as my 11 year old partial knee replacement started to make its declining status quite obvious via pain/discomfort.

 

The partial knee was installed because my inside (medial) cartilage was worn out. I have the same issue now with my right knee, just not to the point for surgery. The reason the medial cartilage is in poor condition goes back to my being bow legged. I’m trying to get another year out of the partial before getting a full knee replacement and am lessening the torque on the left knee by setting up with my left foot splayed approximately  45 degrees to the target. 
 

You see, bow legged golfers with worn knee cartilage are subject to swaying in the backswing. I’ve seen it in my video clips. My impression is the back swing physics are not favorable to bow legged, older golfers like myself.  To overcome this issue, I’ve changed the address position of my right leg. Imagine the letter K with the vertical line representing my left knee and the the two angled lines representing my right knee prior to initiating the back swing. I’ve found having the right knee intentionally knocked inwards has beautifully synchronized my swing mechanics. Yesterday I had my best round ever despite it being a cold & windy day. I am posting this here should other MDLT devotees with similar anatomical construction have thin shot frustrations. 

[juststeve]

I don't recall Manny ever saying that the feet should be placed at right angles to the target line.  What he said was to stand comfortably and that would differ from player to player.  Given you physical limitation he would certainly endorse and foot position that allowed you to swing without pain

 

Steve

[PChem]

Steve, thanks for this information.  Yes, the book said be comfortable.  I just got back from the driving range and the stance correction continues to work for me.  Small changes make big differences, yes?

[indianagolf2]

Any updates

[tm3]

15 hours ago, indianagolf2 said:

Any updates

 

My update is I'm still sold on the method, but I still am beleaguered by a push/slice.  I decided to re-read the book.  The reading reminds me of how when I first got the book I thought, is this it?  But this time around I see that there is a lot of info to absorb -- it is just presented in a very efficient way with no wasted words.

[bdcava]

I have recommitted myself to the method. I just remind myself that I know it works and I need to trust it. Every now and then I find something in the method that I was not paying attention to. First  it was not using my right hand enough in swinging the clubhead back. Now it’s letting my body coil (notice I said “letting”) and keeping my weight centered.

[tm3]

13 hours ago, bdcava said:

 I just remind myself that I know it works and I need to trust it. 

 

I think this is a key point, as opposed to wondering what went wrong on a bad shot and what to change to correct it.  Don't try to change anything -- just try to keep doing what MDLT says to do.

 

Another key point came from a YT video done by an instructor who uses the MDLT method (I forgot his name).  He says that the overwhelming majority of bad shots he sees in students is from excess tension.  Relax and trust the swing.

[MrHateCoffee]

What’s the best source to learn this method? Are there any videos from similar instructors? I haven’t had a lot of success learning from golf books

[dlygrisse]

10 hours ago, MrHateCoffee said:

What’s the best source to learn this method? Are there any videos from similar instructors? I haven’t had a lot of success learning from golf books

I think there is a video you can buy somewhere based on the book, but this video is a good place to start.  There are other videos on Youtube where he is doing clinics and on TGC etc.  Just search.  Manuel de la Torre Golf Clinic - 1987 - The Swing Concept - YouTube

 

[MrHateCoffee]

On 4/8/2020 at 4:20 PM, juststeve said:

A drill that Manny used might help. You address the ball properly, take the club back with your hands, then using both arms return the club to the address position, centered and square to the ball. No speed here. Repeat over and over again.

 

Steve

for some reason this drill is very hard for me. Is that indicative of a major problem? Is this easy for most people?

[tm3]

On 4/16/2021 at 11:56 PM, MrHateCoffee said:

for some reason this drill is very hard for me. Is that indicative of a major problem? Is this easy for most people?

 

I'll take a stab at it.  The challenge I have with the drill is when I bring the club down my tendency is to move into the impact position, not the address position.

 

I trust Just Steve's advice as he got this directly from The Master himself, but, it seems as though practicing this drill over and over might ingrain the habit of stopping the hip rotation once they return to address position which would create a stall/flip of the club.

[MrHateCoffee]

3 hours ago, tm3 said:

 

I'll take a stab at it.  The challenge I have with the drill is when I bring the club down my tendency is to move into the impact position, not the address position.

 

I trust Just Steve's advice as he got this directly from The Master himself, but, it seems as though practicing this drill over and over might ingrain the habit of stopping the hip rotation once they return to address position which would create a stall/flip of the club.

 

Yeah I have the same issue.  I almost am not sure the purpose of the drill but wanted to see what others thought.

[tm3]

19 hours ago, MrHateCoffee said:

 

Yeah I have the same issue.  I almost am not sure the purpose of the drill but wanted to see what others thought.

 

I'll toss this into the mix as far as what seems to have helped me the most with this swing concept.  "Back with the hands, through with the arms" seems simple but I find it easier said than done.  I practice this at home, with a regular club or a weighted club, by making swings (no ball) in which I try to focus really intently on the hands going back and the arms coming down -- and I mean focus as in I try to be aware of nothing else.  I also hit shots at the range with the same focus.

Edited April 20, 2021 by tm3

[bdcava]

My biggest issue is applying it to chipping and pitching. When I look at videos of Manny chipping it looks easy but I still decelerate a lot. Could be too much tension which is inhibiting wrist action.

[juststeve]

On 4/20/2021 at 8:21 AM, tm3 said:

 

I'll toss this into the mix as far as what seems to have helped me the most with this swing concept.  "Back with the hands, through with the arms" seems simple but I find it easier said than done.  I practice this at home, with a regular club or a weighted club, by making swings (no ball) in which I try to focus really intently on the hands going back and the arms coming down -- and I mean focus as in I try to be aware of nothing else.  I also hit shots at the range with the same focus.

Why make the forward swing with the arms?  Because as Manny loved to demonstrate, you can't get the club back to the ball without using your arms.  So don't worry about it so much.  If you are ab;e to get the club back to the ball you are already using your arms.  I really believe Manny said to swing forward with the arms just to be accurate.  To him all that mattered is how the club moves.

 

Steve

[tm3]

17 hours ago, juststeve said:

Why make the forward swing with the arms?  Because as Manny loved to demonstrate, you can't get the club back to the ball without using your arms.  So don't worry about it so much.  If you are ab;e to get the club back to the ball you are already using your arms.  I really believe Manny said to swing forward with the arms just to be accurate.  To him all that mattered is how the club moves.

 

Steve

 

 

Thanks, Steve!  I think that all my years of trying to "hit the ball" by "swinging the clubhead" caused me to develop the tendency to use the club like a lever, and moving the focus on the downswing to my arms tends to take my hands and leveraging out.  Might be wrong, but that is my theory -- and the results seem to support this ie my ball striking is better when I practice with focus on the "arm swing."

[juststeve]

2 hours ago, tm3 said:

 

 

Thanks, Steve!  I think that all my years of trying to "hit the ball" by "swinging the clubhead" caused me to develop the tendency to use the club like a lever, and moving the focus on the downswing to my arms tends to take my hands and leveraging out.  Might be wrong, but that is my theory -- and the results seem to support this ie my ball striking is better when I practice with focus on the "arm swing."

When Manny thought I was trying to hit the ball up his advice was to picture the ball going to the target along the ground.  Do that and the club will fet the ball up.  All you need to do is swing the club.

 

Steve

[tm3]

19 hours ago, juststeve said:

When Manny thought I was trying to hit the ball up his advice was to picture the ball going to the target along the ground.  Do that and the club will fet the ball up.  All you need to do is swing the club.

 

Steve

 

Thanks, Steve!  Your input is always appreciated.

[NoTalentLefty]

I must say this, of all the swing methods out there this is the easiest on your body for those with hip replacements and knee problems.  Have / had both. Not a current user of what he teaches but always seems on my mind.

[mocokid]

On 4/21/2021 at 5:19 PM, juststeve said:

Why make the forward swing with the arms?  Because as Manny loved to demonstrate, you can't get the club back to the ball without using your arms.  So don't worry about it so much.  If you are ab;e to get the club back to the ball you are already using your arms.  I really believe Manny said to swing forward with the arms just to be accurate.  To him all that mattered is how the club moves.

 

Steve

Steve, I'm using the 4 finger swing drill. It works especially to reduce the tension in the last 3 fingers of left hand.  My arms are more upright and less stuck inside.  What did Manny do about that left hand tension that wants to try to create power(lag) but ruins the swing?

Edited July 24, 2021 by mocokid

[NoTalentLefty]

I decided to return to MDLT. After rereading his book, watched the video dvd, YouTube , and reading this and other posts realized I needed to stop hopping around from one swing thought to another. 
  Now I need to grow a spine and stop reading anything but MDLT teachers.

[bdcava]

I have a lot to improve in my game but the biggest benefit for me since adhering to MDLT principles is the lack of a lot of curvature in my shots mostly due the the neutral grip and setup.

[NoTalentLefty]

Well I went a round using Manuel’s swing. ( ( Coming from a Venetos like swing. ) Shot an 89 but couldn’t get out much to practice due to my asthma acting way up. Thing I liked was it’s a fairway finder what I forgot on my irons swing the arms with power. Don’t baby it. Not sure I like the chipping method which caused me some hesitation . (My fault got to commit to a setup) . Irons tend to fly straighter than before . Had a few shots that went left and didn’t feel  a need to change anything which is what Manny said don’t do just continue with the method. Got home and sure enough correction in book said my alignment was aiming that way. It was as the aim line was away from trouble on right. I’m sticking with it. Easy on my body. 

[NoTalentLefty]

Made it through from August until now using MDLT teaching. It’s becoming second nature. My HCI went up a little but that was due to my heart issues and not being able to get through a round without almost passing out . Wish I had more time this year but the winter draws closer. 
  One question I have left is possibly moving my hands forward with a driver? Anyone try that? Is it possible maintain his swing method with that? Maybe one group of questions…

[bdcava]

13 hours ago, NoTalentLefty said:

Made it through from August until now using MDLT teaching. It’s becoming second nature. My HCI went up a little but that was due to my heart issues and not being able to get through a round without almost passing out . Wish I had more time this year but the winter draws closer. 
  One question I have left is possibly moving my hands forward with a driver? Anyone try that? Is it possible maintain his swing method with that? Maybe one group of questions…

Great question. I’m trying to increase my angle of attack with the driver. I think the MDLT method would instruct you to move the ball forward but still setup with the club in the middle of your stance. I try to do this but it does feel awkward at times.

[Singhjapan]

On 3/26/2020 at 1:54 AM, juststeve said:

Sean: If you give my suggestion a try let me know how it worked for you.

Steve

Steve, i read all your posts. It has helped me a lot. Please tell me if my swing thought should change depending on how well groomed my swing is ? I consider myself a beginner and am still in the process of developing my swing. I play in 80s and I started last year due to Covid. Thanks always.

[slantsflood]

@juststeve. Thank you for all of your contributions and keeping the torch lit for mdlt.  I have 2 issues im still struggling with.  Have read the book. All the Manny videos, and all the freebird videos. Over and over again

 

#1 tension in my forearms and wrists before I move the club in the takeaway.  Everything feels locked up, even if I have a loose grip.  Any suggestions on this?

 

#2 right hand on the takeaway.  Sometimes it works great, sometimes it throws things way off.  I have been left side dominant for most of my golfing life.  So I know my right hand has to be active.  But I don't know how to do it, which sounds weird.  I can throw a ball no problem. How did he describe the right hand to help get the momentum started?  In my swing, the only feel that gets the club "up" instead of "around" on the takeaway, is the feeling of pulling up with my ring and middle fingers of my right hand.  I believe monte calls this a vertical wrist set.  I just have issue's getting the club "up" over the right shoulder.  Is the pressure on the right middle and ring finger correct, or is this leverage from the start?  Sorry for the long complicated questions.  Thanks Steve 

[chippa13]

If you're thinking about individual fingers then you are doing it wrong.

[tm3]

On 3/12/2022 at 11:22 PM, slantsflood said:

 

 

#1 tension in my forearms and wrists before I move the club in the takeaway.  Everything feels locked up, even if I have a loose grip.  Any suggestions on this?

 

 

One way to release this tension is to tighten your grip with both hands as hard as you can, hold it for a couple of counts, relax, then swing.