Stack and tilt method and drills.

[jdpar3027]

Good morning all. Amidst the crisis of the outside world, I am spending more and more time working on my golf swing indoors. I’ve always been a big fan of Sam Snead and Bobby Jones. I love the lift of the left heel and the freedom they had with the club.

I’ve seen some articles on how they and a lot of the classic players were more stack and tilt style than weight shift and so on. I must admit that I find the idea behind the method attractive, but I am not sure if it’s a good method for a guy who is 6’3 and 260 lbs.

My question is what are some of the pros/cons for this method and drills to gain a better understanding?

Thank you!

[wagolfer7]

You can lift your left heel with any swing.

Highly recommend you take an online lesson during this time. You'll be way more efficient and better off, getting advice from someone who has studied golf swings for their living. Trying to Google and search the internet for different methods, usually causes people more harm than good. online lessons · Rebellion GolfMonte lesson is only $75 and if I remember correctly, he has some info on Stack n Tilt as well.

For $75 you'll get drills to practice indoor and improve quicker. It would be much more efficient in my opinion, than guessing on your own. It's a great time right now to take advantage of top level teaching online.

 

[mikpga]

The pros are many...

You will develop an understanding of what all good ball strikers have in common...

 

 

[extrastiff]

stack and tilt is definitely a big part of my swing, and the resulting improved handicap. 6'3, 200 pounds. It was tricky finding the right balance point in my lead leg, as well as the best knee movement to reduce stress, but glad i stuck with it. Topping an iron completely stopped being a thing, and im finding ways to transition that method to the driver more efficiently now. There are a few thing i need clicking to have a good day, but a stack is definitely a high priority

[JLP_GOLF]

Stack and tilt are principles and these principles are shared by many great ball strikers in history. The marketing and naming of stack and tilt could be used as a case study on what not to do. It has stained an otherwise great teaching method and the connotation associated with it is not just. Amazing principles

[dachtor]

Reading the book, watching the video, taking a few lessons changed my golf game for the better. I went from a high single digit hdcp to a scratch player. The game became fun. You can take the principals too far though, as I did, and have spent the last few years undoing a bit of it. I agree on the marketing and reputation comments. If you follow the Stack and Tilt social media groups, it's so contentious there it's really quite sad. I look at other examples of golf instructors on social media like Mike Bender, George Gankas, Andrew Rice, etc and their approach is so different. The S&T crowd spends 99% of their time criticizing what others teach, while the people I named spend 99% of their time helping their followers get better.

[JLP_GOLF]

Couldn’t agree more. I have thoughts on why the S and T culture is that way, more concerned with being proven right than helping golfers, but I’ll leave that alone. Bottom line, it’s a great set of principles to help golfers play better golf quickly.

[JLP_GOLF]

Some other of my favorite follows on social which prefer S and T principles; James Jordan, Shkeen, Adam porzak, Adam kollof. Learned a ton following these awesome instructors

[scopek]

That's a good assessment. They're a very defensive group. But I will say there's a good reason they're still around. I personally know golfers that have benefited tremendously from S&T. It's probably a great system for amateurs. Whether it's the best to play at the highest levels, I'm not sure. With the game going more and more for distance it may not be. Tommy Fleetwood does a lot of S&T things in his swing and it works for him. But otherwise probably benefits the amateurs more on a whole. Just my 2 cents.

[baudi]

(S&T is: feet flared; arms turned in; left shoulder deep down; right shoulder steep up; stretch up the right leg and build up pressure on left and more so in the downswing). S&T should reinvent itself and broaden their scope. It would help for sure.

[dodger]

I spent an afternoon with Andy Plummer in January. Stack and Tilt improved my swing immediately, without changing the appearance of my swing too much. Corrected a longstanding in to out problem and I am now consistently compressing the ball with my irons and hybrids. My game from 150 yards to 225 yards is leaps and bounds better. Plus, I know what I do wrong so the corrections are easy. Ignore the naysayers, find a certified S&T instructor and your game will vastly improve.

[davidy1948]

I was an early adopter of S+T and still love it - dare to suggest that if it was the teaching standard then 80% of golfers wouldn't be slicers !

However the driver still remains a bit inconsistent - 3 woods off the tee or the deck are a dream, but I still don't feel 100% comfortable with the big stick. I've seen all the Internet stuff about it but none of it has really helped. I'm assuming it's more important than ever to shallow out the swing with the " hips tucked under move " - is there anything in the setup I should be adapting?

[extrastiff]

Depends on what the results of the inconsistency are. Whats the miss?

[davidy1948]

Actually I don't hook or slice much, it's pretty straight, sometimes with a touch of draw. But the ballflight is inconsistent, sometimes lower with penetration, others more commonly a touch on the high side. Probably being a bit perfectionist since I should be happy with the straightness, but I feel I'm not always hitting it flush out of the middle of the clubface. Given the straightness I don't think there can be much wrong with the swingpath, Have chunked a couple too, but am guessing my legs were tired and I didn't shallow out properly . If I felt a bit more confident as I do with the rest of my clubs then I could go after it a bit more so I feel I'm giving up some potential distance. Maybe inconsistent ball position at address ?

[D4uphin]

Just wondering, does anyone here think any modern day, current players use what is close to a S&T method?

[dodger]

All of them do. Stack and Tilt has three fundamentals, hit the ball before the ground, hit the ball with enough power to compete and control the clubface. All tour players exhibit elements of Stack and Tilt. Don't get hung up on whether a particular tour player exhibits everything in the book. I listened to 3 tour coaches on Breed's radio show. Every one of them talked about tilting in the pivot. I sought out stack and tilt because I was sick of hitting fairway woods and hybrids either thin or fat. I understand what I need to do to prevent it.

[Caddykev]

I had a similar issue with the driver. A couple of things helped me correct it. I went to a 10.5 driver with a 44 inch shaft, and started to turn my left shoulder down just a little less than normal on the takeaway. Stripe show after that. With the 45.5 driver, the swing never felt right, on video my downswing made moves to compensate that I didn’t do with my 3 wood or irons. It’s worth a shot.

[vietnameeh]

I like the principals and somewhat simplicity of SnT

Still use it for irons and wedges.

Modified a bit for the driver .....

I get a lot of weird comments these days that "you are too stack and tilty... blah blah you can pick up a few yards if didn't stay stacked" but it just works. As long as I know I can make consistent impact and have good face control/stability ... I am fine.... I am still young that I don't need to chase yards

[JoMoFo]

 

Go with what works for you, who cares about what others say about your swing. You’ll be in there short stuff while they are in the woods! Too many people like to judge. If they were that good, they would already be on tour. Rant over. Do you!

[vietnameeh]

It's funny because at peak of SnT... the comments were different... like that really works!!!! You have to show me sometime ... i heard so and so is doing it now LOL

[indianagolf2]

I disagree with this being a good method. It ruined more golfers on tour.

 

Mike weir comes to mind.

[JoMoFo]

Not disputing your point, nor am I ever going to claim S&T is the solution. Just sharing that for some amateurs (older Guys like me) it has potential to be beneficial. As mentioned earlier whatever swing method that works for an individual in becoming more consistent and confident.

[Caddykev]

I’m no stack and tilt zealot but this is untrue. Mike weir had a hot run in 03 and 04 then fell off the planet like a lot of pros do. He won in 2007 using Stack and Tilt then moved on like players do all the time with coaches. Aaron Baddeley won 3 of his 4 PGA Tour titles under stack and tilt and got to 20 in the world rankings before he slid off and moved on. Guys moved on like they constantly do, but it’s a stretch to say that it ruined anyone’s career.

[indianagolf2]

Yeah lots of success! LMFAO! Ruined Badds, Eric Axley, TAIII, Jason Gore, Dean Wilson, Mike Weir, just to name a few! Badds struggled and gave up on it only to reunite with Dale Lynch and get back to the winners circle. Gore won on tour and shot a 59 on the NW before switching and now is in no man's land, Dean Wilson won the International and has had limited status the last 5 or so years since being "stacked", Mike Weir is at least a 10 time winner and Masters Champ who has no status now after S&T. SHALL I GO ON!!!!! WORST F'ING SWING EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Not to mention they stole the idea anyway from Mac O'grady! The new slogan instead of "I'm stacked" should be "I'm a hack"

[Caddykev]

LMFAO back. As I stated earlier, I’m no SNT cultist, and All you have to do is go through the forum search on here and Any golf biomechanist group to see why the hard line SNT guys get the hatred from guys like you. However, your ruining argument doesn’t add up statistically.

mike Weir: 8 PGA Tour Wins. 7 before 2004. 05 and 06 by his own admission lost his game. Started working with Andy and Mike in Nov 2006 and wins in 2007. Leaves a few years later lost again, goes back in 2011 still lost. His story isn’t just a SNT ruined story, it’s a pretty normal PGA Tour story. Look at David Duval, Jordan Spieth potentially, the list goes on.

Badds: As an amateur they made him out to be the next Tiger or Norman. Wins Aus Open as an Am, turns pro and wins 2 more times on the Aus PGA by 2001. Gets a tour card and basically became what he is, a journeyman. Wins 3 PGA Tour events under SNT plus 1 Euro event, gets to 20 in the World loses game a bit and goes back to His old coach Lynch and has 1 win since. So 4/8 of his wins were under SNT. The list of 4 time winners in the PGA Tour is pretty long.

Dean Wilson: journeyman that turned pro in 1992, bounced all over the tours. SNT in 2005, only PGA tour win 2006 international.

Eric Axley: similar to Dean Wilson, bounces back and forth between tours only win 2006 Valero under SNT.

Bill Lunde: Was about to quit golf, started working with Mike and Andy, wins at Turning Stone:

Jason Gore: Great guy, but has always been a jouneyman before and after SNT.

TA3: Journeyman and playboy .

Charlie Wi: if he could putt, prob wouldn’t have retired

Most of Mike and Andy’s stable were journeyman, and they talk about their Mac O’Grady influence. They would have done themselves favors by not having such an ego and being so defnsive about their system and trademarking their stuff

I Used to caddie for a guy here in Long Islamd with deep pockets that took lessons from everybody in the top 25. He spent most of it with Butch, even tried GG for a while. His best seasons on his handicap were all under his work with Andy. He did eventually go back but like everyone else including every golfer in the world and PGA Tour he chases it and tries new stuff.

 

 

[chipa]

As far as I understand the S & T method is more focused on a center turn of the back and shoulders with a limited weight shift, which would make it very difficult to get enough weight on the right side in order that the left heel can come up so high like in the case of Jones and Snead. Also, the head would not be able to shift significantly to the right side during the downswing either, which both Jones and Snead do.

I believe I understand the advantage of the S and T though as it makes it easy to biometrically connect the hands and arms, which the low one piece takeaway theories rarely address.

Imo opinion the S and T method but with an added deliberate left shoulder adduction with a correct right hand action on the takeaway is all that is needed to get enough weight on the right side.

[chipa]

I have tried the classic stack and tilt method but honestly it puts too much stress on my left knee and lower back. Plus I lose about 25 yards of distance with my 5 iron and a lot more with the driver compared to my "lower body weight shift swing".

[Caddykev]

I think the distance loss is really what turned a lot of people away over time. I mean, Justin Rose even had Foley trying to move his turn down and back for a while there to regain some pop. Stack and Tilt like anything else isn’t for everybody, but it has its uses if it works for you. I played college golf and wasted a summer on the Golden State tour before hamging the clubs up for a good 6 years. When I decided to start playing again my former college coach gave me a lesson and put me in a more stacked position and it has changed my iron game completely which was my weak point all thru college. I’ve never experienced any distance loss, but I also never went full stack and tilt.

[sociojeje]

anyone bought their 2.0 dvd? I am thinking about it as I am trying to make my swing change right. I watched numerous videos on Youtube and read the book many times. What's "new" about 2.0?

[mikpga]

Hit punch shots finishing with both arms straight.  
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTWh8scVvvA