Matching Driver shaft w/ same Specs as 3 wood shaft

Hasone33 · April 11, 2020

I have a TM M5 Driver head. I want to match same specs as my 3 wood. My 3 Wood is 2016 M2 and is a glue in head shafted w/ a Graphite Design ADDI 7X Tipped 1". The spin rate is super low with a boring launch with this M2 / ADDI Combo.

I understand I could get another ADDI 7X and tip it 1" but was wondering about the aspect of glue in head vs in a TM Tip and also the difference of tipping in a fairway wood vs a driver as most fairway woods are designed to be tipped.

The shaft I have in my driver now is a Kurokage Silver TINI 60X which is good but want the same spin rate and boring trajectory as 3 wood

Thanks for looking and interested to here the forums thoughts.

Thanks in advance

Jason

moorebaseball · April 11, 2020

Wish my AD DI 7x had a boring flight in my driver. I am about to list mine for sale to try something else in my TS3 driver to see if I can get ball flight down. May put in my new 3 wood, but I Haven't decided yet. Great shaft though...VERY straight!

Z1ggy16 · April 11, 2020

If the 7x typed an inch feels good in a 3w,the exact same spec in a driver would likely feel a little too at out and the SW could feel a bit off, too.

If the only thing you want is a bit less spin and launch, then lower the loft of the club or move the CG more forward and higher.

Stuart_G · April 12, 2020

Glue in vs adapter doesn't mean anything with respect to how the head effects the playing characteristics of the shaft or how much tipping should be done.

What does matter is the head weight (including adapter if one is used) and the BBGM of the two heads. M5 has a BBGM of 1.75". Don't know what the M2 3wd is but most of the TM Fairways I've measured have been 1.25" - for a difference of 0.5". Which would mean 0.5" more tipping in the FW to get the two heads to play the same just based on BBGM

The head weight difference will depend a lot on the playing lengths and swing weights that you choose in your build (and shaft balance points). But 10 gm is a typical weight difference between standard driver and standard 3wd weights - well it was. Modern driver heads tend to push that a bit so not sure that's really a safe assumption any more. But for each 10 gm difference in head weight, a 1/2" of tipping is usually warranted to keep the shaft playing similar. This is why FW tipping recommendations are generally 1/2" more for 3wd than drivers. And this would cancel out the BBGM tipping difference resulting a net difference of zero.

However, those adjustments assumes the actual stiffness profile of the 6X is the same as the 7X - which is not really true. They are close but the 7X is a little bit stiffer than the 6X, particularly in the butt end of the shaft.

So where does that leave you? If you really are sensitive enough to worry about getting the tipping perfect, it's not something you can simply calculate and expect to work perfectly. You really have to figure it out with the different shaft (6x instead of 7x) just like if it was a completely different model. Since tipping can't be undone, it's always best to start with less and work you're way down to more. Start with less tipping in the driver (maybe 1/2") and go test it to see how it feels. Leave it longer in the butt end when cutting to length and test choking up. If it feels soft go back and tip in 1/2" increments and repeat until you get the feel you were looking for. When you're done, go back and butt cut to the final length.

Howard_Jones · April 12, 2020

...one small but important error in your text>

"If the only thing you want is a bit less spin and launch, then lower the loft of the club or move the CG more forward and higher. LOWER. (we want vertical gear effects to work in the right direction)

There is not always a contradiction between a long RCOG measurement and low spin, that depend on the height of VCOG and if the player / shaft combo adds Dynamic loft or not. Since most players dont have a swing where shaft profile from Low to High stands out with a difference that matters, this players "dont need" a more forward RCOG to lower spin, they need a lower VCOG or a higher impact.

Moving RCOG forward for spin reasons is "Gambling" since we pay with directional forgiveness, and we know the combo "low spin, high tilt on the spin axis" (SLDR), is a unwanted combo, so even for players who do add lots of dynamic loft, use static loft for launch and spin, RCOG is to important for direction to mess with it. (we can but be moderate, we get "better payed" is we leave it and focus on impact position)

Z1ggy16 · April 12, 2020

Good correction Howard, makes total sense. But if the player goes with a head that has a lower VCOG and starts to strike the ball higher in the face, won't his launch go up? OP Wants less launch AND less spin. So he just uses less loft, and moves the CG up more toward the face. We don't know where he's striking it usually, we don't really know anything about his swing.

Hasone33 · April 13, 2020

Thanks for those that chimed in. I think I am going to try Stuarts suggestion of trying the driver shaft tipped 1/2" first and go more if needed. I think I am going to stay with the 7x though in driver also.

Thanks again

Howard_Jones · April 13, 2020

A short input for you about ADDI and Weight.

Tipping ADDI do NOT give the expected results, the EI profile and tip section "makes it to look like" that we go weaker instead of stronger when we tip trim this shaft. The few i had on my desk did not respond like expected, and before you decide what you feel is right (0.5" is logic and makes sense), also look at BBGM between this 2 heads. If BBGM is different, we have to alter tip trim for that. (if the driver has 2.0" and the wood 1.5", we should tip trim the driver the difference or 0.5" more than we normally would have.Shaft Weight....Think in terms of Descending - Constant or Ascending weight. Woods shafts is by nature Descending weight, thats why we normally move up in weight as we go shorter, so if we move the "thinking" against irons and Constant weight, for woods that means a 46.00" uncut shaft must go up 2.33 grams pr inch to get the same "grams pr inch" like Constant weight shafts has. (same net cut length). If we think Ascending weight and the same shaft MOI for each shaft, we have to move to about 4 grams uncut pr inch. (Descending wgt sets = added MOI as we go longer / Constant wgt sets - a small addition to MOI as we go longer / Ascending wgt- same MOI independent of length.)So, unless you want the driver shaft to deliver more MOI to the club than it does in your 3W, you should consider the 6X model for your driver. 66.5 grams vs 75 grams - difference 8.5 grams

If your thinking is "the same MOI" or feel of shaft weight, this 8.5 grams is whats needed for as driver thats 2-2.25" inch longer than your 3W

If your thinking is "constant weight" where the driver has a slightly higher addition to the clubs total MOI, those 8.5 grams is whats needed for a play length difference of about 3.5 inch

So, how much longer would your driver be vs your 3W, ? and what "feel of shaft weight" do you prefer? like a Descending weight iron set? Constant weight irons? Ascending weight irons?

For short, go 6X in the driver unless you know its to light for you

mcc0819 · April 13, 2020

I have the 7x in my driver tipped an inch. In my 3 wood, I ended up putting an 8x with stock tipping. I only cut from the butt end to get similar feel. Because it's a shorter club, there will be a difference.