Is it a dumb idea to carry two drivers?

[Moonlightgrm]

I am scratching my head on this one. If you can CARRY your 45” driver 280-yards, why do you need a longer shafted driver? A 280-yard carry can tame most courses. That’s some serious swing speed!

[joostin]

9 hours ago, Dan Drake said:

I'll be working my way through this "problem" over the next few months.  The first plan is to pit a Callaway mini against the Epic Flash driver.  The goal with both will be to come up with a 2nd longest club that draws almost exclusively and still maintains very close to "normal" driver distance.  It will be interesting to see how the club head size difference affects everything, as well as being able to move the weight on the EF.  I've always seemed to be more comfortable drawing the flatter looking/shallower club heads as opposed to the deeper, pear shaped heads, so I'm curious about that as well.  

 

As for the strategy side of this, opposed to the club tech side, it will be an interesting thought experiment.  Is the potential usefulness of a 2w off the turf going to be great enough to outweigh the potential forgiveness and potential ball speed advantages of the driver head?  I have to admit, the allure of being able to reach par 5's in the high 500 yards would be very cool, and the normal design of holes of those lengths do tend to lend themselves to the "big" driver and a 2w off the turf.  But, I have to remember that the #1 job of this club will be to hit the ball, off the tee, right to left, and about 275 in the air.  If I can build that club AND hit it off the turf, that's just lagniappe.  After all, this club will be used somewhere around 5 times per round off the tee, virtually every single round.  It would only be used off the turf perhaps twice in one round maximum and more often it would be once or not at all.  I have to remember that the main goal is to get off the tee in a (more) predictable manner.  

 

FWIW, I also have a RBZ tour spoon, a Callaway Razr Fit driver, and a TEE e8 beta 12 degree fw that will be part of the experiment at some point as well!

Interested to see how your experiment goes.  We definitely have similar thoughts on bag setup.  I haven't played much this year, but in order to carry a strong 3W I played as my signature without 5 iron, and have only missed it a little.  The easy to hit 4 iron has been an easy cover for it, and honestly haven't needed it much.

 

13.5° 3W is a nice workable club for me.  It's not completely necessary but nice to have a long draw option off the tee.  It's just fun to smash long piercing bullets, though I do need more reps to hit it clean more often.  The couple times I tried it off the turf on course they weren't as solid as I know I can get on the range.  It's a practice thing, but 5W is pretty automatic off turf and long enough for those shots that only happen once in a while. 

 

That leads me to believe I can get even more greedy and use a real 2nd driver instead of the 13.5° 3W.  I think even an old 983K may get a little more distance than the strong 3W, but at 300+cc has higher MOI for better mishits.  I'm guessing I could turn it over more easily than a 460cc for the draw, though 2nd driver would pretty much take away the option to hit off the deck (that would be fun to practice though!).  That's a cheap experiment I just haven't gotten around to yet.

 

Thoughts on an older driver like 983K vs. a mini driver like Original One as a 2nd driver?

[iNeedMoreGolf]

I think its nuts. Even if your a pga player its ridiculous. This whole thing about long shafts more power only applys to pga players and skilled amatures that would have enough time to figure out how to hit it correctly. Most great non pga players have been doing just fine scoring low with normal size drivers for years. Just because 1 person is hitting the ball 400yrds means we all have too? This isnt a rage rant btw im just saying lol. Ive seen 70 year old guys on courses have a driver shot of 100 yards birdie and par holes that i tied or bogey or worse so it doesnt matter unless your looking for and edge on tour. Now... where did i put my 42 inch 9 iron hmm?

[forrester_fire]

On 4/26/2020 at 1:05 AM, Valtiel said:

I feel like that type of driver setup would be in play somewhere on tour if it were of any reasonable benefit. The only real dual driver setup we have seen any more than once is the Mickelson one, and that was meant for shot shape, not distance specifically.

With that range of dispersion you are far more likely to cost yourself strokes over saving them, especially since you have now lost a scoring club which you would ostensibly need to capitalize on your now shorter approaches in to the green. It is kind of a weird Catch 22 I think. In order for an extra 20-30 yards off the tee on only specific holes to actually gain you 1-2 strokes per round, your approach to the green would need to be of a fairly high level to consistently take advantage of that, and if your approach is of that high a level, you're better off giving yourself MORE options there, not fewer. Plus, the moment the long driver misses a fairway, any advantage you had is likely gone, or worse. And if your approach is not as strong and the extra 20-30 yards actually WOULD make a difference, then it seems unlikely that you would possess the raw skill needed to consistently control a long driver (no offense, just speaking hypothetically). I can't imagine someone that has enough of a problem hitting a 6i that dropping down to an 8i actually helps significantly being able to also wield a 48" driver effectively.

I hope that makes sense, kinda tough to explain! hah. In my opinion you are likely better off finding ways to squeeze more out of your current driver via ball flight e.g. the classic fairway finder cut shot vs. the big bomb draw.

 

I think the big difference between tour and amateur players is going to be the 3W.  A tour player can play 3w off the tee or the deck without any problems.  I would wager that most recreational golfers don't hit 3w off the deck particularly well and it could reasonably be replaced by a 2nd driver.

[Z1ggy16]

I don't think it's dumb.... I'm about to do this myself possible. Have my "bomber" set up which is a 9* SIM Max with Ventus Black 6x and then Im  building a "control" set up which is going to be an F9 cut to 43'' with +15g head weight with an Accra FX 2.0 370 M5.

 

Now that fairway woods are so long... I'm getting my old 3 wood distances with 5 woods. Even though I sold it, my Sim Ti had a range of 250 to *290* according to Arccos. So... 250 yards were probably slight miss hits, and then it could go out to 290 with a bit of wind help. I rarely ever see or take a shot from the deck over 250 anyway, so why have a club in the bag that doesn't get used a ton? I'd use the short driver all the time.

[puttingmatt]

Personally, Its not for me, but its your decision. Bag set up is a personal choice.

Play what works for your scoring the best score.

[NoTalentLefty]

For me it would be stupid. BUT what is stupid for me isn’t stupid for everybody. 

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, forrester_fire said:

 

I think the big difference between tour and amateur players is going to be the 3W.  A tour player can play 3w off the tee or the deck without any problems.  I would wager that most recreational golfers don't hit 3w off the deck particularly well and it could reasonably be replaced by a 2nd driver.

That is a good point, I guess it depends though. I still feel a similar "catch 22" vibe from this. If someone is good enough with the driver to where 2 of them would be a measurable advantage then I feel like they wouldn't in most cases be sub par with a 3-wood in that sense. However, I think with today's 3-woods now more than ever the 4-wood is the most practical for the average player, and that could potentially free up a slot for the second driver. 

[forrester_fire]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

That is a good point, I guess it depends though. I still feel a similar "catch 22" vibe from this. If someone is good enough with the driver to where 2 of them would be a measurable advantage then I feel like they wouldn't in most cases be sub par with a 3-wood in that sense. However, I think with today's 3-woods now more than ever the 4-wood is the most practical for the average player, and that could potentially free up a slot for the second driver. 

 

A second driver definitely takes options out of your bag.  As a mid/high handicap player with decent speed (11 - 13hdcp, 108), I can hit a 3w off the deck when maximum distance is a must, like the odd duffed tee shot on a long par 4, but the results aren't always positive.  A miss with 3w off the deck, for me, is either a topped ball that only goes ~125 yards or a big hook OB. I'm usually better off taking my medicine and getting 215 yards out of a hybrid than 240+ out of a 3w.  That said, if I were to put a second driver in the bag, that completely takes out the option of hitting the longest shot possible off the deck. 

 

I definitely think 95% of players are better off splitting the difference (distance vs. accuracy) between the theoretical "two drivers" setup and carrying just one.

Edited December 24, 2020 by forrester_fire

[Dan Drake]

I understand that this is a pretty golfer-specific bag setup strategy.  I also know that most golfers set up their bags much too generically.  As most everyone on here who has read anything I have posted over the past few years will know, I am a HUGE proponent of shot specific clubs.  And to be perfectly honest, this has been a newer epiphany for me.  It took me a loooooong time (20+ years) to realize that some golfers are just flat out good enough to make a single club to multiple jobs, and do them well, and other golfers just aren't.  And that golfers of both types are found everywhere from the PGA Tour to your local track's Tuesday morning 8:00am game.  To me, there are 3 basic things going on with your golf bag setup.  

 

They are:

1. There will be things you can do well relative to your overall skill level

2. Things you can't do well relative to your overall skill level

3. And things in your game that you can mitigate with relatively simple club changes and/or learning a relatively simple skill or shot  

 

I'll give you a personal case in point.  I'm good at hitting the ball a long way, but bad at avoiding the serious trouble off the tee, again, relative to my skill level.  A two, or even three, club matrix at the top of the bag to optimize those 14 opportunities to get as close to the green while mitigating as much trouble as possible are very impactful on my scoring ability.  Trust me, with my swing speed combined with my limited time to practice/play/keep my swing in game shape, when I miss, I miss gloriously.  And clearly if I'm going to build this type of arsenal at the top of the bag, I may as well have them go different distances.  And if they are going to go different distances, well the by goodness, one of them should go as far as I am able to humanly hit the ball!  So, I am taking something I'm good at and something I'm not good at, and emphasizing one while mitigating the other with a relatively simple bag setup/club change.  

 

The alternative strategy would be to learn a new skill or shot.  And with my limited time to do so, and the fact that I don't even really have great command of one shot, learning another one doesn't seem like the best ROI for me.  But I'll give you an example of where it does make more sense.  I am a good short gamer, again, relative to my overall game.  But, I'm a pretty nervy bunker player.  I have a good bunker game, but as soon as the shot isn't super simple, I get twitchy, stabby, and overall my shots tend to get pretty rough.  And I mean leave it in the bunker or send it into some poor family's back yard pool rough.  So, my highest lofted wedge has a sole and grind that makes these shots easier for me.  But after keeping all of my strokes gained stats over the years, I know that I only face on average, one bunker shot per round whereas I face 5 or more "pitch" shot opportunities each round.  So, I'm going to put a club in that spot in the bag with a grind for my pitch shot technique and then go spend some time in the practice bunker learning a technique that will allow me to use that pitch shot sole grind and be comfortable out of the bunkers.  So in this scenario I'm using the option of learning a new skill to allow for my equipment choice to accentuate my strength as much as possible as opposed to having it mitigate a weakness that just doesn't occur often enough to be a significant impacter of my total score.

 

Sorry for the longwinded speech, but I feel like this is an important point to make.  

[TGSherriff]

Not necessarily....as many of stated, Phil won a green jacket doing so.  Guess it depends on what advantage it gives you and what it takes out of your bag.  Might be course dependant as well. 

[MaisonMizuno]

Late to the party here in 2022. But I’ve been experimenting with this concept for a few weeks. I have a SIM Max 9° that can carry close to 260+ with a small fade ball flight. After some wheeling and dealing on Offerup in the Phoenix area I ended up with a Ping G425 Max 10.5°. Had heard all about how straight these driver were and how forgiving etc and being the equipment nerd I am I was dying to try one.

 

Previous to both these drivers I built up a Mizuno STG220 for one thing and one thing only: DISTANCE. Until finally, FINALLY I saw the light. My quest for distance was costing me 2-4 strokes per round. And from that point on all I could think was, I just want a driver that will go 250-260 yards in the air that goes straight and that is light and easy to swing. Enter SIM. Prior to this all my swing speed was around 115 and pushes 118-120 if I realllly step on it (you know, for those ten extra yards that find the desert. Yay.) I settled in to a comfortable and controlled 110 with the SIM Max and it just clicked. 
 

Then I got my hands on the PING. And no joke, the SECOND I realized this was a straight, reliable, stable 250 club at 106-107mph, my very first thought was: “ I could game them both and have the SIM be for even more distance bringing my swing speed back to 115-117” 😑😑😑

 

What I realized through this experiment is this: 

 

1.) The pursuit of distance is not doing me any good. The difference between a 8i, 9i and a GW is not enough to necessitate trying to hit a golf ball 300+ yards. 

2.) For the level of golf that I do and the courses and tees I play, 250-260 in the air from the tee is plenty. 270 in the Fairway is better than 330 in the desert, hitting 3 after having to drop. 
3.) Gaming 2 drivers is not going to help me gain 2-4 strokes. I am an 8 handicap and minimizing errors and unnecessary strokes is far more beneficial to me at this point in my game than creating “scoring opportunities”.
4.) At an 8 handicap, Pars are just fine. It is unrealistic for me to expect 4-5 birdies in a round. Usually 1-2 tops and almost always on par 4s, but if I break 75 for the first time in my life, I’m certain it will be because I minimized my errors and didn’t take meaningless strokes.
5.) Even if I woke up tomorrow and could drive a ball 400 yards, I would not be a scratch golfer. Because when I evaluate my latest 78, it is not because of any shot from the Tee box to the 100 yard marker. Every last one of those 6 shots were silly chipping and putting errors
 

(For me) Distance is a mirage. It’s NOT my issue. Short game is. If I could chip from 50-60 yards and in I would be shooting sub 75. 
 

I’m going to have both drivers around, but only game one. I play in a semi-serious mens league and a few local tournaments playing anywhere from 6500-6800 yards. 260 in the air from the tee box with the ability to get to 275 if I need is more than enough. 

[Roejye]

I entertained this idea for a little bit, never really seriously though. Even with my draw biased driver I couldn't really consistently hit a controlled draw, and my home course actually favors a slight fade, and I can't think of a course I've played where a fade is completely out of the question. So this season I decided to stop fighting it and start embracing the fade. When my swing is good, it's working well. I've found myself in some very good scoring opportunities, and I've even been getting pars on my opening hole, which is the most difficult according to my scoring app. 

 

[Habitual Flipper]

On 5/4/2022 at 8:52 PM, MaisonMizuno said:

 

What I realized through this experiment is this: 

 

3.) Gaming 2 drivers is not going to help me gain 2-4 strokes. I am an 8 handicap and minimizing errors and unnecessary strokes is far more beneficial to me at this point in my game than creating “scoring opportunities”.
4.) At an 8 handicap, Pars are just fine. It is unrealistic for me to expect 4-5 birdies in a round. Usually 1-2 tops and almost always on par 4s, but if I break 75 for the first time in my errors
 

 

This is a great point. In DECADE, Scott Fawcett talks about the difference between someone who averages 75 and someone who averages 90. Those 15 strokes difference are made up mainly of making less bogies and doubles, not from making more birdies. Bogey avoidance is key to low scores. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Habitual Flipper

[Dan Drake]

4 hours ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

This is a great point. In DECADE, Scott Fawcett talks about the difference between someone who averages 75 and someone who averages 90. Those 15 strokes difference are made up mainly of making less bogies and doubles, not from making more birdies. Bogey avoidance is key to low scores. 

So true!  But…….

 

The most mathematically certain way to avoid bogies is to be closer to the green after your tee shot, so hitting it further is “bogey avoidance” according to Fawcett.

 

I happen to agree 💯 %!