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Video - Throw clubhead outward immediately.


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Been buying range tokens in bulk to limit my transactions during the social distancing era. I'm a danger to myself when I'm hitting it well and got a pocket full of tokens.

Plus people kept leaving half buckets behind as they were heading to the course.

Didn't want to see them go to waste. lol

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Won a world long drive title doing it.

My view is that the golf swing is handled or managed by one of two methods; either with a 'swinging' motion or with a muscled 'controlled' movement. And, the two methods are mutually exclusive, especi

Here is what is hard for golfers to wrap their head around. Positions reaches in 2D stills, both involve reactions by the brain and..........the net result of two or more movements. When you see that

I'm where you are with this eye opener. I'm sure like everything else, the "feel" answer to those questions will be different for each person. I do know in general, it will already decrease my front/back dispersion with irons (primarily short). My lateral dispersion has always been decent, but I could only take passive passes with irons for fear of the unknown. I'm that guy, that hits his irons 2 clubs shorter than what my driver distance would tell you

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I need to take advantage of my (one of the local public courses) courses range. This particular course has a great deal. $39/month-12 month commitment at a time and you get $10 greens fees ($20 all in with cart) + unlimited range balls after 1pm. It's a twilight only deal is the only down side, but the group I play with only plays in the afternoon anyway. Golf opens back up Tuesday here in Washington thankfully. twosome's only for now.

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There's a great explanation out there regarding center of mass and the timing of the release. Google it and you'll probably find info on it. Basically, with driver, the CoM is father away from the hands compared to say a wedge, thus you need more TIME for it to swing around to be at maximal efficiency at impact. In other words, the farther away the CoM is from your hands, you need more time for it to catch up with hands, meaning you release it early. The closer the CoM is, you would throw it later to catch up with your hands.

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yes that’s exactly the same just another method of communicating it , l to l , montes cast from the top, Steve Pratt’s method here , crossfields lockey flick

 

If you’re a handle dragger and attempt this it feels mentally out of control

im working on this and shoulder plane during lockdown as without the correct shoulder turn/left side bend I’d still be very inconsistent as i overswing

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It's a great deal. If I play 1 a week, I'm better than even and the range balls are essentially free at that point. It's really great for the 6pm start with the old lady when the course is empty and I can get around in 2.5 hours with the sun setting. My favorite time to play in the summer. Doesn't get dark here until 9:30 in the summer.

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I have a hard time getting the pivot to sync with my arms when trying this. Arms are always late and I stall flip. However, this approach is much nicer on my body. I do get more speed with the driver though, and the swing just feels easier. But I also am not quite doing it right. I have been contemplating going back to this style of release, as said before, it is much nicer on my body.

In the bag

Driver: Taylormade M6 

3w: Taylormade 2016 M2

5w: Taylormade 2017 M2

Irons: Callaway Apex CF 19 4i-AW

W1: Vokey SM7 54* S

W2: Vokey SM8 60* L

Putter: Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2.5

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Your focus and feel should be on the weight of the clubhead and its outward throw early in the downswing, and then to feel the outward pulling force of the clubhead as your body pivot is engaged to deliver the package through impact. But if you are having difficulty timing the body pivot to match the throw-out wrist release movement you might want to try incorporating something a little bit different that may help you. Try snapping your right wrist downward so it's in almost full ulnar deviation right at impact. Much like the clubhead throw-out action you'll want to time the delivery of your almost fully unloaded (ulnar deviation) right wrist at impact. This action is similar to the clubhead throw-out move but the timing is defined to a much smaller, possibly easier, part of the body (your right wrist) to control than your body pivot. The right wrist snap-down action is another technique to produce an 'outward' moving force with the weight (a.k.a. clubhead) you are swinging. Your first thought will likely be that snapping your right wrist downward to collect the golf ball as the club swings through will cause an out-to-in clubhead path. It won't. It shouldn't take but a few swings to figure out when to start the snap down. You'll probably be dumbfounded about what this does for your swing and the results it produces.

Not to necessarily explain why the 'outward' force is so important, but many swing aids produce an audible click based on how strong the outward force is - and some swing aids actually measure the swing's outward force...all to the bewilderment of most golfers who think the only important measurement is how fast the clubhead is moving horizontally toward the target at impact. The outward force is equally important.

A few things to think about in terms of the importance of outward force - a rock that is swung around in a circle on a string always has a taut stretched dead straight string, the stronger this outward force the faster the rock moves. The hammer thrower's flexible wire attached to the hammer ball is straight and stretched taut. The Medicus hinged golf club can only be used to hit a ball when the club is swung with outward force, because without pure outward force the hinge is not in-line with the clubshaft. The Momentus Whoosh swing trainer has a ball that slides outward down the shaft - the key is to make the ball slide outward to the end of the shaft and make a noise at impact. The SwingRite golf training club actually measures only the outward force...the forward speed be damned!

 

 

There are two things you can learn by stopping your backswing at the top and checking the position of your hands: how many hands you have, and which one is wearing the glove.

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There is a lot to think about in this post... Thanks for the insight!

In the bag

Driver: Taylormade M6 

3w: Taylormade 2016 M2

5w: Taylormade 2017 M2

Irons: Callaway Apex CF 19 4i-AW

W1: Vokey SM7 54* S

W2: Vokey SM8 60* L

Putter: Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2.5

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The SwingRite golf training club is one of the very best golf swing training aids in my opinion. The SwingRite training club is based on the principle that the faster a weight is swung in a circular form the more outward force there will be. As you know the SwingRite training club indicates and measures outward force. That is what you really want to feel since you really can't feel clubhead speed. Of course you can also reverse the assertion and say that the more outward force there is the faster the weight is being swung. Since outward force and swing speed are directly associated one might say they go hand-in-hand - you can't have a lot of one without a lot of the other. And since the faster you are able to 'swing' the weight (clubhead) the more outward force there will be, it becomes essential to produce as much outward force as possible if you want maximum distance.

We've been told that the outward tension force of a driver can have an effective weight of more than 100 pounds at impact. For that much force (and speed) to happen there must be a quick movement of the clubhead from one side of the wrists to the other side of the wrists - call it a rollover or flip-over or whatever you wish, it's the opposite of dragging the handle through impact. How can you feel the clubhead if you drag the handle? You can't! How can you have much clubhead speed or outward force dragging the handle? You can't! Also, for that much force (and speed) to happen at impact, purposely holding lag is definitely not the answer - you should be trying to get rid of the lag angle so you can start feeling the increasing weight of the clubhead. Jack Nicklaus and others have said how they want to try to get rid of the lag angle. What a lot of golfers don't realize is that focusing on the business end of the golf club (clubhead) and trying to get rid of lag early in the downswing actually makes the handle feel heavy which drops the hands and club into a good position just before impact. You'll still have plenty of angle because you are swinging the clubhead and timing it to collect the ball. If you were to look at it on slow-motion video you'd swear the golfer had figured out how to hold lag like the pros! Anyway - focus on swinging and feeling the clubhead. That SwingRite golf training club is for doing just that...

There are two things you can learn by stopping your backswing at the top and checking the position of your hands: how many hands you have, and which one is wearing the glove.

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With the recent videoing of swings I've noticed the forward bowing of the iron shaft in the downswing. Mine gets pretty pronounced after left arm parallel.

Anyone have any idea where the proper place in the downswing that bowing in shaft should kick forward.

It is such an odd look heading into impact.

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This all explains perfectly why I hit heavy SW ( D7/8+ territory) clubs so much better. That head weight forces body to react properly. Too light and it's handle drag city because I can't feel anything out there. The combination of longest and straightest driver I've ever played was an R11s with one of those BiMatrix Bubba steel tip shafts. It was a tad too heavy, but consistent, so I took it to the local shop to get it cut down a bit. It came in at E1 or 2! It was a sledgehammer.

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You'll rarely see or hear about tour pros shedding clubhead swing weight, most end up adding weight. Also, amateurs that muscle the club and feel the need to manipulate it prefer lighter clubs and they tend to prefer weaker shafts too.

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There are two things you can learn by stopping your backswing at the top and checking the position of your hands: how many hands you have, and which one is wearing the glove.

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This is a great move for someone who doesn't release the club naturally - which could be a whole bunch of us. I remember many years back when I was leaving the ball off to the right more often than not, and I went to Lonnie Neilson for a lesson. Basically, he told me the same thing that what this thread is all about. That year, at that time, it really freed up my swing, and I played great at the end of the year, winning the member-member with a nice guy who didn't contribute much.

There is a yin/yang to golf. In order to keep perspective about the "throw away" move, which I think can be very helpful, here is another thought: first move on the downswing is to pull the grip (handle) directly away from the target. If you can do that, and release the club right away, you can maintain your width, and perhaps keep from coming over the top with a release from the top.

Two thoughts - release the club from the top, and pull the grip directly away from the target as the first, infinitesimal move in the forward swing.

Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing-glove.  P.G. Wodehouse
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I’ve been struggling with driver mightily over the last several years, low pulls hooks and high slices..not to mention a serious loss in club head speed/distance, primarily only with driver. I know I’ve been having a swing path issue and everything I’ve tried was a temporary fix. I remember seeing the “throw the club” video a while back that Monte posted, but only had a chance to try it(when I actually remembered that is) once on the driving range with seemingly promising results.

The last round a played back in March before the shutdowns, I was again struggling with driver, pull booking everything. Then towards the end of the round I remembered the “throw the club” swing thought and figured what the hey, the round was alright going to shite. It’s was like a revelation...2 high, long(for me)baby fades to finish the round. The guys was playing with, I was behind by a good 20-30 yards and the one I actually hit decently. After I implemented the new swing thought, I was right up with them.

Fast forward to today, my first round since March and that swing thought has been burning a hole in my head and have been dying to go to the range and hit balls again with it to get the feeling ingrained, but that not being an option, I had to test it out on the course.

I only needed to hit driver 5 or 6 times, but I only missed 1 fairway due to a really badly topped shot...got a little too quick and fell out of rhythm. The others weren’t all exactly perfectly struck, but they all flew true on the intended line and with very little loss in distance. Some of my speed seemed to have been coming back as I don’t remember hitting driver that far that consistently in a long time. I think one of the big things I noticed was that I wasn’t in hinging my left wrist properly only on the driver. I think the throw forced me to unhinge the wrist helping me create some more speed that I was leaving on the table. I also started to try to use the ground, which I never really did in the past, using some tips from GG. The first attempt at it was the one I duffed lol. But the last a caught a bit thin but it went as far as some of the drives I completely nutted.

I’m looking forward to working on this more when the ranges open up, but on course training will have to do for now.

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With all the talk about the release I rarely hear any talk about how the lead shoulder effects it in any instruction.

I've been working a lot lately focusing on centrifugal force causing a nice effortless release.

Been trying to time it with body to get to that classic impact position with hands in front of lead thigh.

Keep coming up a little short with hands only at inside of lead thigh.

Striking ball real solid but too high a ball flight and probably losing an easy 20 yards because of lack of proper shaft lean.

Studying video of my swing, I noticed at the point my lead shoulder begins to pull up and away from target my hands are just outside my rear thigh instead of in front of the thigh.

This is where I think most instruction is lacking. It seems to focus on people tugging on handle to get to that point. (Full lag, hands in front of right thigh).

The part I never hear discussed is being at that position at the moment that your lead shoulder is about to pull up and back away from the target, which initiates the release of the clubhead.

When the natural release starts at that point you get to the classic impact position.

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The release starts before the lead shoulder is going up and back - somewhere between p5-p6 with ulnar deviation of the lead wrist. The trail arm has already been straightening and when the lead wrist UDs it sets up the lead forearm to supinate and as rotation continues the arms extend.

can train the release but if getting the hands to lead then the issue is somewhere back in the swing and is a lack of synch of arms and pivot.

 

Enjoy every sandwich

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We'll have to agree to disagree. Physics does not support what your saying. And this instructor seems to imply that that the hands are initiating things instead of centrifugal force. Maybe it's just a feel he's trying to get across, but the physics is wrong. The only really controllable part is rotation and supination of arms.

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Centripetal and Centrifugal forces are central forces - they act on the COM and inward and outward to the center of rotation. They do not create rotation. One must apply a torque to create rotation - in a golf swing that torque is applied by the hands at the grip due to the motion of the body etc. The club head wants to line up with the direction of the force being applied by the hands.

Enjoy every sandwich

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When did it become a revelation to "swing the golf club"? After all it's called a golf SWING.

It certainly seems to me that he's advocating a free swinging of the club with a centrifugal release (versus a pull and hold via conscious hard left hip rotation).

IMO there's far too much instruction based on mechanics, positioning, and body manipulation which suppresses the free swinging of the "tool". Athleticism is taken out of the action in a vain attempt to create a theoretical golfing machine.

 

 

 

 

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It’s not one or the other. You base a free flowing, athletic motion on understanding what movement and position windows you need to be in. PT’s, pitching coaches, hitting coaches, QB coaches, running coaches etc. all teach positions and mechanics. Other wise, it’s just managing poor perceptions of what the athletic motion is.

I walked mindlessly for 50 years poorly that led to back and knee issues. After my knee surgery in 2017, the PT spent a month teaching me how to w;ask better to avoid these issues.

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I don't disagree with any of that. It actually proves my point.

The release(uncocking portion) really starts as the moment of force flips from negative to positive at P-6.

I disagreed with ulnar deviation really starting earlier. Angle maxes out in transition but probably 90% is maintained to P-6.

And I don't think the straightening of right arm leading up to P-6 has any effect because the straight left arm controls the radius of the circular hand path.

Look at all the pros, at P-6 they all have that nice right angle between club and hand with shoulders level(for iron play).

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