Video - Throw clubhead outward immediately.

[mudge]

I find it ironic that Snead is being mentioned in this thread (throw the clubhead out immediately) when he tried to delay the release as late as possible.

[GreatStrike]

Sam Snead's swing was about as pure as they come - he didn't manipulate the golf club.

[mudge]

IMO, Snead had the best swing of all time by a mile. But your statement is pretty meaningless.

[GreatStrike]

You said that Sam Snead "tried to delay the release as late as possible." To 'try' to do something means there is manipulation or purposeful physical activity in order to delay the release until some later point. Snead had a pure golf swing, meaning he did not physically force or purposefully manipulate the golf club to delay the release. He swung (literally) the golf club and allowed ('let') the club release with very passive wrists. His release happened naturally from the club's weight and momentum. You can sense in his golf swing that there was no effort put forth to delay the release.

[trilerian]

I'm making an effort to switch my swing to this, but having trouble closing the club face, or even squaring the club face. Everything is a push, which since I line up for a push draw, leaves everything too far right. I feel like there is something that is stopping my wrist from moving freely, just don't know what. Making my grip stronger hinders the release, always has, which is the reason I went to a body swing in the first place. About 1 out of 10 shots right now is getting the flight I want, with distance and shape. The rest of the shots are generally pushes and short. Oh, and there is no easy distance with this. I have to swing as hard as I can to keep the distance I am accustomed to, at least with my irons and 5w. Driver on the other hand seems better, but unplayable at this point since the push turns to a push slice. And the other miss is a topped drive that goes nowhere.

[mudge]

Are you trying to sell a golf book or system of some sort?

[mocokid]

I gotta agree. Too bad about the above troller.

Look, both swingers (arms & hands) and body rotation students can use Snead's swing all day long as a Template, He used arms, hands, body, legs, hips, you name it optimally from takeaway to finish.

But Snead sure didn't THINK about the GG Snead squat at P5.5 by going external with both legs, then pushing off the rear foot at P5. Then finishing with chest facing up. He was making a REAL golf swing, not baking a cake.

[mudge]

Lol.

If by trolling you mean I’m going to call out people who like to repurpose what a great golfer said he did in his own swing, then guilty as charged.

[Nard_S]

Snead's swing was great in no small measure to how good his legs and dynamic balance were. GG's method draws inspiration from how Sam swung. You can emulate his wrists but if the rest is ignored, it won't work. The guy laid down the shaft using healthy dose of quality leg work. This is difficult to teach, so it's to GG credit he attempts it. Where this perhaps can be best seen, in a modern attack type swing, is in Rory. Great lower body action drive both those great swings.

 

[Zitlow]

The right hand and arm assist the back swing shoulder turn as well. Humerus bone adducts and abducts the scapular.

[Golfbeat]

We have no clue what Sam Snead was doing or thinking. This thread is about finding a way for lesser gods (like me) to hit the ball further and straighter with some clear instruction of how to do it.

[Krt22]

Truly an Effortless Golf Swing™

[Krt22]

That is the thing about GG, even though he doesn't speak a lot about the wrists and instead focuses on other external elements (right shoulder external, alignment sticks, etc), you could absolutely bugger up the best pivot and squat in the world if your left wrist is extending during transition. Even though it becomes a subconscious action by many great players, there is really nothing natural about flexing the lead wrist in transition, which is why there are so many more weak slicers than pure ball strikers.

[mudge]

So I suppose all the books and lessons he wrote and gave were just random thoughts from someone else's mind. Give me a break.

[Nard_S]

Yeah, don't disagree about anything you're saying. Just look at most any Pro from P4 to P6. GG openly admits he bases his stuff off of Snead. You don't need to read Sam's mind, just watch his swing. Snead was somewhat upright in back swing but he flattened quite a bit coming down. He's not laying down the club with wrists alone. The guy had legs of Gene Kelly and used them to great effect.

"Throwing outward" is about getting arm unfold and rotating the plane of arm triangle into the right disposition with everything more in front of torso. It's also about getting faster hand speed that peeks earlier. Wrist flexion counts a bunch but it's not everything. If all it took to hit it hard and straight was some wrist flex, this game would be a lot easier.

 

[Krt22]

Yeah my main point being your body can do everything right, but that won't automatically make your wrists/arms work correctly, which some people in this thread are openly advocating.

[GreatStrike]

No, you have a mistaken and distorted suspicion...

[mocokid]

Thanks for the reality check. He's an inspiration for the swingers (arms, hands) and the body rotation guys (pivot driven, core). Everyone wants to get the club in right place at impact whether you are GG or Manny, Ernest Jones or Hogan.

[wagolfer7]

Some things come automatic to people and others not. What feels like a super awkward move to you, might be the natural move for someone else.

My opinion is how you move your body does determine how easy or difficult the cast away from your body move is. You grip and positioning near the top, will influence how much it feels that you need to shallow the club with that wrist move. Just like the variance between slightly cupped to DJ bowed - that is also going determine the timing and amount you need to use your wrists to shallow.

It's the same concept as using the ground. I played golf for 15+ years without ever engaging the ground. I played pretty good golf too. So what does that say about my swing? Since using the ground didn't come natural to me. Does that mean moving my body correctly would engage the ground? I think it does big time. How I move my body sets the pressure. I think it's very similar. How you rotate your body puts you in a more natural position to set the wrists - this includes grip (big component in my belief).

 

[pusb365]

Just watched the video on the op, along with a few other bits in here and the release reminds me of Bradley Hughes' teaching methods

[Krt22]

Agree with you there, I just take issue when folks start speaking in absolutes and saying things like "the physics suggests" or "this is a natural movement and requires no effort". I think people in these camps mistake what some do subconsciously as natural and thus discount any conscious effort as inherently wrong. Some people can move their body correctly and their arms/wrists will respond, some people need to focus on their arms/wrists and then let the body respond, and some people (ie me) need to train both to work together.

[wagolfer7]

I agree as well. It's a tough subject always when talking about feels and natural movement.

I too worked on my wrist positions. And when I was, it was nothing natural about it. However through practice and adjustments - it feels very natural now. Most likely a combination of working on it consciously and adjusting my takeaway / body movement. I do believe, if I didn't make adjustments to my body then the move would still feel a bit unnatural or more forced than it does now.

I'm just cautious these days. Through my own experiences of trying to improve - I'm in the belief now, that if a new move or position I'm trying to get to, is very difficult or very awkward, I'm most likely missing a piece or pieces of the puzzle.

[GreatStrike]

My view is that the golf swing is handled or managed by one of two methods; either with a 'swinging' motion or with a muscled 'controlled' movement. And, the two methods are mutually exclusive, especially in terms of intent and feels but particularly in technique. The scrawny 16 year-old boy that barely weighs 100 pounds and has arms and wrists like a withered sparrow yet carries his drives 275 yards and his stock 7 iron is 170 yards and regularly places in the top 10 of nationwide AJGA events is the type of player that has learned the 'swinging' method...most assuredly because he hasn't acquired the muscles needed to manhandle the golf club. This is the type of golfer that will play excellent golf his entire life, and may play collegiate golf or even become a professional tour player. Likewise, most all female collegiate golfers and tour players fall into the same 'swinging' method class, and the reason why this is true is obvious - they typically lack strength and don't even try to muscle the golf club. Then, we have the 'other' golfers - all those people that try to muscle and manhandle the golf club. We've probably all seen the skinny high school kid at the practice range standing beside the 6' 3" 230 pound man with huge biceps and thighs and wrists so large no standard watchband will fit. And, the kid is swinging effortlessly while hitting everything 50 yards past Goliath as he moans and groans. How can this be? The kid learned how to 'swing' the golf club. Goliath wants to use his strength but also some of the elements used to 'swing' a golf club...and that always spells disaster.

The golf swings of Sam Snead and Arnold Palmer are good examples of these two extremes. Sam Snead's golf swing was a polar opposite of Arnold Palmer's golf swing. Sam Snead 'allowed' or 'let' his golf swing to develop much like swinging a rock on the end of a string, whereas Arnold Palmer forcefully 'made' his swing happen much like a lumberjack driving an ax into a log. Both methods worked, but what was needed to make each work effectively are mostly mutually exclusive. If Sam had tried to swing a golf club like Arnold he would have likely been an unknown farmer around Hot Springs, Virginia. Likewise, if Arnold had tried to swing a golf club like Sam he would have likely ended up in a career something other than being a tour player. But all that said, I believe that Arnold would have been far more successful at transitioning to Sam's method of swinging a golf club than Sam would have been transitioning to the way that Arnold manhandled a golf club.

Arnold used a lot of physical effort to swing the golf club and he forced the release to take place and forced the clubface to square with his powerful forearms and wrists, and a grip pressure that would have squeezed the head off a Pennsylvania copperhead. Sam, on the other hand, swung the golf club effortlessly to the musical rhythm of 'The Blue Danube' waltz, or like it was a well-timed lasso or a rock tied to the end of a string. Sam allowed ('let') the weight and momentum of the swinging golf club to swivel or twirl or pivot his wrists without any physical influence whatsoever, using a very light grip pressure that wouldn't harm a baby bird, and not attempting to add any additional speed to the swing or use any force whatsoever to square the clubface. I doubt Arnold ever felt much rhythm, tempo or centrifugal force in his golf swing like Sam no doubt did. Those elements were an important part of Sam's golf swing. Arnold made his swing happen whereas Sam allowed his swing to take place.

There's nothing wrong with either method, but one (swinging) is far easier on the body and will last a lifetime (e.g. Sam Snead winning 82 PGA tournaments and the last win at almost 53 years old) in comparison. One method (physical force) instinctively makes more visceral sense to most men, but is rarely the best method to achieve the best results. One method (physical force) is the most common method used by far, but is rarely the best method to play your best. One method (physical force) is the easiest to get started playing the game as an adult, but is not necessarily the best method to use if you want to learn to play your absolute best. Moving from one method to the other method is difficult, but moving from using 'physical force' to a 'swinging' method is a delicate challenge for many people that have played the game for years, and hard for most men to grasp and accept. On the other hand, if you learned the 'swinging' method as a child (before acquiring muscles and brawn), moving from a 'swinging' method to a 'physical force' method is almost never heard of, and virtually never sought after.

And, that is why acquiring a sound golf swing is so difficult...

[Ezgolfer]

Nail it you just nailed it....

[COACH9]

I'm transitioning from Palmer to Snead. Lol

Going after it hard is my normal DNA. But I'm experimenting with trying to develop a smoother tempo in my swing and more effortless power.

But closing in on 60, I think it might be in my best interest to experiment with the change.

 

[MPStrat]

Nail it, that was good stuff. It’s cool to have voices in here that are different.

[trilerian]

How about some more instructions on the swinging. I've been a hitter for awhile now, and it is the only way I can close the face. I am having a ridiculously hard time closing the face just letting everything go, even throwing from the top. My right hand is always behind my left until way after impact, leaving the face wide open. I've tried stronger grips, makes it worse, I have been able to get a weak right handed grip to work, if I get my swing really vertical, but that isn't the answer either. One thing I also noticed while practicing yesterday is that I can't stop my body from rotating. I tried all sorts of feels to try and get my arms to the ball first, nothing worked. I tried to purposefully stop my upper body from rotating and just swing my arms. Nope, not possible... Best results came from aiming down the left side and trying to hit a hook and coming away with a fade. I can do the release standing straight up and swinging vertical, feels natural and is easy to do. I just can't get it on an inclined plane.

[mocokid]

thanks at what point is JC Snead in the video?

[GreatStrike]

Toward the end of the 1977 Masters Practice Range video (below) featuring Sam Snead, at about 4:44 you will see Sam's nephew, J.C. Snead, dressed in what appears to be navy pants and a light colored short sleeve shirt standing directly behind Sam, watching his uncle hit shots. J.C. was not practicing, he was just a visiting spectator.

[mocokid]

JC was a good ball striker in the 80's !! JC worked with Ballard.