Faldo vs. Mickelson, who was better?

[grm24]

Chris Wall? Do you mean Chris Wood? Wood is 6'5" or 6'6". That picture is from 2009. What is its point in a Faldo/Mickelson thread?

 

[grm24]

Not just at Winged Foot. Phil doubled the 71st hole at Shinnecock in 2004 when he was tied for the lead. Phil, according to some had the best short game ever (LOL!), was in the lead at the US Open on the back 9 in 2013 @ Merion but made 2 bogies with wedges in hand. Then there was 2018 melt down @ Shinnecock which was on a totally different level.

[iBanesto]

I saw some comments about players' listed heights and how there may be discrepancies to reality. The photo illustrates some of the comments made about listed heights.

It is Anthony Wall standing on the right btw.

[iBanesto]

The other side of the coin is that it shows a trend of Mickelson not capitalising on his opportunities at the US Open.

Was he outplayed or choked? Maybe both?

Can't remember if Mickelson was buried in the bunker on 17 in 2004 because Goosen hit it in the same bunker and got up and down. All chance when you it in a hazard.

 

[grm24]

Phil 3 stabbed it on 17 from 5 feet on the 17th at Shinnecock in 2004. People will make of it what they will.

[Jack Pearsall]

Certainly, Mickelson was more entertaining to watch play than Faldo and while we seldom use that as a valid metric, it seems apt for tv entertainment like golf.

[OBbogey5]

One of the strangest things in golf history is how long it took Phil to win his first major. He won on tour as a college player. The talent was tops.

 

Also puzzling is never being ranked 1 with all that talent. He had five or six years to become number one in the world too. Faldo, Norman...I’ll say 1992-98...three major wins for those two. It was all there for the taking for Phil. Can’t excuse him for the “failures” in the first decade of his professional career, nor the missed opportunities afterwards, like the 2006 US Open. He blew it himself and didn’t really get bit in the butt like choker Norman did time and again.

 

If it was my life on the line, Jack Morris would get the ball, and Faldo over Mickelson.

[grm24]

In 2010 Phil had at least a dozen chances to become the number 1 ranked player in the world based on how he finished in the tournament he was playing. Could never do it.

[iBanesto]

Was 2010 the closest Mickelson got to World No. 1?

Do you know which tournament if he finished higher, he could have got top spot?

Nosferatu would know this.

[elwhippy]

Faldo. Next question.

[grm24]

There were articles each time Phil had a chance to take the #1 ranking. His last chance at it in 2010 was at The Tour Championship. 2010 was possibly his best shot at becoming world #1 but I'm far from certain on that.https://www.pga.com/archive/12th-time-in-2010-phil-mickelson-has-chance-knock-tiger-woods-no-1

[bscinstnct]

 

Why?

 

; )

[Golfjack]

I like Faldo. Mickelson is too erratic off the tee. He's now famously upped his swing speed by quite a bit, averaging over 300 yards on drives, but only finds the fairway half the time and is ranked 180 GIR in 2019. I don't know why he doesn't just take a year and revamps his swing instead of sticking to his shutter release method which is just too erratic. He's clearly still got the power (and calves) just getting worse in terms of accuracy.

[Shilgy]

Funny how the narrative changes to fit the desired outcome. In some threads...mostly Tiger/Jack....the ONLY thing that matters is majors won. In this case of course that would favor Sir Nick. Others look at total career stats-yes mostly US tour numbers- that would favor Phil. In this thread we have a litany of reasons....not reaching #1....consistency of finishes ....being knighted(not really sure anyone threw that out there).

 

So my question is....why do the parameters change so often?

[iBanesto]

What are your variables to rate a player?

[Shilgy]

Fair question. Mine does not vary. Wins, majors, big wins (wgc and players) then standing in their era with a definite edge to the more modern player.

So a theoretical... If a guy came along, let's name him BK, and in his career won 8 majors and 10 total events. The way many post they would put that career above Faldo or Phil for instance. I believe that is ludicrous.

[smashdn]

Mickleson.

 

I think the strength of schedule seals it for me. He played in an era of better competition (one competitor really, el Tigre). Faldo's heyday was a bit before my time but I am thinking Norman, Crenshaw, Price and Kite aren't the same competition as say a Duvall (for a short but intense period), Daly (also flashy in the pan-ish), Zack Johnson, Henrik Stenson, Furyk, Els, A. Scott.

 

If there were no Tiger, Mickelson would be our Tiger, during the Tiger time frame - if that makes sense. I am not a Mickelson fan however.

[Shilgy]

With you on this...add Sergio DJ VJ Harrington Rose Goosen and the proverbial many more.

[MUNIGRIT]

Nlu podcast with Stenson. He says Phil is 2nd best player of last 30 years.

[mahonie]

In Faldo’s prime, I’d also throw in Seve, Lyle, Olazabal, Woosnam, Couples. He turned pro in 1977 so he was still up against Jack and particularly Watson for a lot of his career. I am not a Michelson fan however ?

[smashdn]

True. My list was not meant to be exhaustive, just about four names that came immediately to mind. I am also not real sure how much Faldo was playing EPGAT verus PGAT. I would think back during that time the course makeup was decidedly more "European" than what it has moved to today. Meaning that they played more "traditional" golf venues including more links and generally rougher conditions than the American tour stops. Perhaps there was a more difficult transition to how you played those courses versus the three US based majors.

 

Though I say Mickelson is slightly better, I would say Faldo is a much better iron player/ball striker than PM. Faldo probably did not have to develop the distance and wedge game that PM did.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

I'll get roasted by our Euro brethren, but I can't believe this is even a question. One of these guys is a once-in-a-generation talent with a golf ball, and the other is Sir Nick Faldo. Faldo was great, and I do like him as a commentator when he's not eating muffins. I definitely enjoyed it when he cucked Norman out of the 1996 Masters, but I don't remember a single shot he hit.

[Texas1]

Late to the party, however add them both together and you have a lesser version of Seve

Both light years behind. Even Sir Nick said he wasn’t a patch on Seve

light the flames, gn all ??

[mahonie]

This is one shot I’ll never forget (apologies for less than stellar picture quality):

[mahonie]

I think Faldo’s game, unsurprisingly, was made for European courses and as soon as Tiger’s power game came in he struggled to compete. One side of Faldo’s game that gets overlooked was his short game. His clutch putting was nearly as good as Tiger’s in his prime. Adding that to his control of shape and flight with any club in the bag and his mental strength made him difficult to compete against. The last 4 holes at Muirfield in 1992 after he’d given up a lead were as good as you’ll see anywhere.

 

I looked at the number of multiple Major winners over the period of both players’ careers...I thought it might demonstrate the respective strength of the top players in each era. Over Faldo’s career from 1977 until his last full season, 2001 (25 years) there were 24 other players who won more than one major. Over Mickelson’s career from 1992 to now (28 years), there were 18.

Obviously, TW skews the figures slightly, although he did have 6 of his 15 Major wins before Faldo stopped competing. Inconclusive I know...but still a good trip down memory lane.

[Shilgy]

I get where you’re going with the multiple majors in each era but some would argue that the fewer multiple time winners shows how much better the fields were in that era. Sure,it’s going back a bit further, but Hogan Nelson and Snead won A LOT of events and majors. Does that make that era stronger than the 70’s and 80’s?

I admit I am too lazy to look it up but you already have the numbers handy so....how many majors did the 24 win and how many have the 18 won? The balance of course would be the single major winners.

[mahonie]

I get what you’re saying...and iirc Seve himself said he wasn’t a patch on Sandy Lyle when it came to natural talent. I’m with you though ?

[mahonie]

Nuts...I know I should have kept that piece of paper! I’ll look it up again tomorrow...it’s past my bedtime

[iBanesto]

Faldo's 2nd shot into 13 on the final day with the long iron was clutch.

[Texas1]

I’ll get burned for this but Seve is in my all time top 5 players, along with jack tiger Arnie and Hogan

He did for the European tour what Arnie did for the PGA tour. Without Seve there’s no Ryder Cup like it is and there’s no Faldo etc winning the masters. He paved the way. He was that good in his prime. The galleries in the US that followed Tiger, well Seve had that in Europe.

And we can thank Jack for making the Ryder cup what it is, great foresight to recommend the inclusion of Europe.

we have been blessed in this game with some outrageous talent