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What Would You Shoot if You Dropped a Ball at 95 Yards COF on Every Hole at Your Home Course?


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Dude, no worries!

For me, the intent of the exercise has always been: "If you can't shoot even par from 95 yards," why are you working on anything else except the shots required from there and in? I'm a firm believer that the entire golf move flows from the 3/4 to full wedge swing. Learn how to be connected enough and repeatable enough to shoot even par from ~100 yards (and this means the rest of your short game -- including putting -- has to be decent as well), and you're on your way to playing solid golf. More importantly, the (hopefully) connected "move" you've ingrained in order to do so will absolutely translate to your longer clubs with only minor modifications in alignment and ball position generally needed.

Another way of putting it: We need to learn to walk effectively before we can run. :-)

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So who else is going to do this? I'm going to do it this weekend and see if the first go 'round was luck, or if I can repeat/better it. Here's some really cool data on the subject. Check out the 95 ya

I originally posted my recap of this game on June 30th where I shot +1. We've done this several times since and I've gotten under par. And I've put a little time and focus into this.    My o

Between clubs? Shouldn't we all be able to score from 95? Also, if you're doing this right, some shots will be uphill, some downhill. Some into the wind and some downwind. The shots will likely play f

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Bro, you owe no one an apology!!

 

Your post was fine, on point and nicely articulated!

 

Drills, like swings, are an individual thing and what works for some does not for others.

 

In addition, just cuz someone can Play, that doesn’t mean that they know sh*t about the swing cuz I was a prime example of that when I was in the game. I knew my swing and how to fix it if it went sideways. Those were the “mechanical” drills that Pete gave me..

 

While I knew my swing, my potential issues and the appropriate drills to right the ship, you probably have forgotten more about the golf swing than I know, and I’m not just saying that I just never went real deep into swing analysis other than knowing my swing and being able to foxy.

 

Well, thanks again for the kind words though you said nothing worth apologizing for to me?

 

Stay Well?

RP

 

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Obee, I'm intrigued by your thought to "learn how to be connected enough" from the 3/4 to full wedge swing.

I don't understand the concept of being connected, can you elaborate on that?

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"Connected" would be hips/trunk/arms/release in sync.

Disconnected is "armsy," "flippy" "wavy." Often leads to wipey, weak contact with the ball launching high and spinny(?).

can elaborate more, but that's the gist. :-)

 

 

 

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That sounds painfully familiar. The wipey, weak contact that is. Did you set up your 60 yard shot thread yet? Didn't see it. Very interested to see the outcome.

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Can't do it yet. Back just now getting to where I can function.

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Thanks, Obee, that makes sense.

Just realized the question was off-topic for this thread - oops

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based on the results, either people are delusional or they thought it was for 9 holes

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Wow wouldnt that be the optimum. Knowing my wedge game I would say I would have about 15 good looks and would drop it within the 10 foot circle enough times. i would say right in at 8 under par sounds doable. Even though I voted more like 5 under, who knows.

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Assume a par of 54. 18 par 3's.

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Arccos tells me from 90-100 yards, my GIR % is 63.6%. I try get my putting data as close to reality as I can, and it says my "putting handicap" is currently a 1.5, with a proximity to hole per GIR of about 18ft. I don't have enough putts IMO to give myself a solid make %, so I'll use the scratch golfer make % at that distance, which is about 15%. I'll then also use the scratch golfer 3 putt % at that distance, which is about 5%. So 15% of the time, I'll birdie, 5% of the time I'd bogey and the rest would be Par.

Using those numbers, I can then look at my up and down % from the green side grass, which is currently 20% with average proximity to hole an abysmal 20ft for my 4th. 20% up is down probably pretty good considering...

So if my math is generally correct:

When a GIR: 5% bogey, 15% birdie, 80% par

When not: 20% par, 75% bogey, 5% double

Overall (rough) Occurrence:

- Bogey: 29%

-Double: 1% (negligible)

-Par: 60%

-Bird: 10%

Based on this final output and rounding up I'm going to say it would take me on average 20 ( ~ 5 bogeys) + 33 (11 par) + 4 (2 birds) = 57 shots to get down from 95 yards, on average.

 

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My average to hole out in the 75-100 window per my DECADE app is 2.93. That puts me in the 72-74 bracket for that bucket. I think PGA Tour average from 95 is around 2.81. Granted that's on firm fast greens with pins cut tight to the edges, so they may not always be aiming at the flag at that range.

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Good question. Even though I feel like I lose lots of strokes driving, if I am being honest I rarely one putt, and I only about 2/3 of the time get on the green or into a putting position from 95 yards out. I didn't take the time to really do all the math but picked what I thought would be about correct after adding about 20 strokes for the 14 driving holes.

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OB a few observations for your consideration.

Your swing tempo is extremely consistent.Your swing is truly ingrained and having seen your driver swing, it's a mirror of your wedge swing, absent the step through.Your PSR is the same and your time, once you're over the ball is very consistent around 3.5-4 seconds.You are decisive on your shots.I mean this as a compliment, but I'm guessing you don't have a swing thought.Your wife is a saint.Enjoyed the video as I always do your insightful threads.

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first of all, you put almost everyone between clubs... so thanks for that.

second, the scores people think they would make is hilarious. Even if you have 18 birdie putts, how many do you think you'll make?

This thread is basically click bait

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Between clubs? Shouldn't we all be able to score from 95? Also, if you're doing this right, some shots will be uphill, some downhill. Some into the wind and some downwind. The shots will likely play from 80 to 115, depending on the variables.

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Unless the course is crazy packed, this is happening today. We're going to work it into a regular 18 hole round. I told my guy that the round is "practice", but we'll have money on the "wedge game".

My plan is to drop a ball at the 100 on every hole. If it's a front/middle/back pin, then I'll have somewhere between 90 and 110 on every shot. A couple holes we'll have an issue getting a ball 100 out because of hazards and whatnot.

My "over/under" on myself is even. I asked him what he thought, and he thought 2-4 under on himself. I'm a .7 right now. He's a 3. I think I'm underestimating myself and he's overestimating himself. Pins are going to make a difference. We have a few greens with really tough front pins. Like, if you hit pin high, you're spinning off the front, and if you go deep, you're going to have a 20 footer putting back towards a front that runs off. Some of our back pins are tough putts from the middle, but "easy" chips from over the green.

We'll see. I've been putting well, lags and makes. and been throwing in some birds lately. I'd feel really good about -4 I think.

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Our club hosts an 18-hole par-3 competition each year in early November. The course is set up with holes ranging from 60-yards to 240-yards. I’d estimate the average distance is 135-yards. I’ve played in this event, twice. The first year I shot 4-over par 58. The second year I shot even par 54. I’d estimate I would shoot near even par in the scenario given in this thread.

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We did this yesterday. Three of us (me : .6 index, 2.9 index, 1.0 index). We dropped a ball at the 100 yards marker every hole and played in, so front pins were normally low/mid 90's and back pins were normally 110-115. On the par 3's we don't have a 100 yard shot, so we played two from the reds (124 and 123) and two from the edge of the "fairway" (82 and 69, nice).

I'll put the conclusions up front.

I was +1 with 3 birdies and 4 bogeys. Average distance from the hole : 24 feet.

The 1.0 index was +1 with 2 birdies and 3 bogeys. Average distance from the hole : 22 feet.

The 3.0 index was -3 with 4 birdies and 1 bogey. Average distance from the hole : 21 feet.

In short : I felt like I was HORRIBLE at this. I was NOT happy walking off. Lost money to the 3 index. The 3 hit all 18 greens.; he had one 3-putt. I, no joke, hit 10 greens. I average over 9 greens per round and almost always play 6800-7000 yards. I hit 11 greens pretty regularly and have WAY more in than 100 yards on average. And, my +1 was a lot of 4-6 foot saves which I'm good at. A couple of the missed greens were "good" misses. Like front fringe on a front pin with a good look. A couple were not.

takeaways :

1) Wedge approach is not the best part of my game. I know this. it's sort of a running joke that I hit 4 irons closer than wedges and my up and down game is very strong and I'm accurate off the tee, good putter. I consider wedges, full and partial, to be a weakness in my game. So, I'm not a 1 because I'm sticking wedges on the reg. I work on it and I'm better than I used to be and this is due, in part, why my handicap has gotten lower.

2) It was pretty windy out there. But the '3' did hit all 18 greens.

3) I actually had some horrible yardages for my game. For instance, hole 4, 112 yards, straight downwind, back pin. My 54º is a 104 yard club and my 50º is about a 116 club. Furthermore, I'm much better at hitting "feel" wedges when I can see the surface and on this hole, it's uphill and we were coming in over a bunker. So, I'm dead stuck between the two and I try to take something off the 50, and pull it left and have a tough chip (this pull is part of the "weakness" in my game). I didn't get it close, but I sunk a 12 footer to save par. So, as an experiment, I hit a full 54. I was 30+ feet short. Then I hit a full 50, flew the green (which you can't do there) and I'm dead. If that's a front/mid pin, or not downwind, or I can see the surface, it's a totally different shot for me. One other hole was dead uphill (can't see the surface) into the wind 124. Long is tough there, and my PW is a 130 club. Now, I figured because of the uphill, I'm going to get some shelter from the wind. I pure the PW and it comes up short and I had a crazy lie just outside the bunker. Bogey. I asked the 3 index what he hit and he said 9 iron. He was pin high. If I knew he hit that, I would have hit 9. Bad club choice, based on erroneous judgment.

4) I THINK I was way too aggressive. e.g. two holes were right into the wind, front left pin and I tried to hit a little draw-spin wedge into the pin and both I got up in the air a little, wind caught it and dumped it into a bunker short left. So, there's always a balance when you're golfing, right. . ..how aggressive are you supposed to be? One other hole, we've got 102, pin is shaded left near an "infinity edge", but it's middle. And i'm just trying to get a good putt. If I hit the shot I hit into those bunkers on the other hole, I have a nice uphill putt. Instead, I play a little more conservatively and have 27 feet coming back to the infinity edge and I three putt.

5) On a couple of those holes, I threw down another ball and hit another shot in, and always hit great shots (one of the short-lefts, I hit my next one to 3 inches). So, this indicates my "feel" or my "judgment" is bad. I made good contact on probably 16 of the shots, groove low on 2 of them, which didn't hurt me. I hit 2 or 3 that I thought were perfect and in the air, my guys went, "that's gotta go" and I went, "WHAT?" So, it's literally like my brain doesn't process these shots correctly. It seems like quite often I'll smash a 7 iron at a pin and someone goes, "go" and I'll go, "oh, that's there" and it is there. But, give me a wedge, and I become a moron. One hole where I came up short, I also hit in my "game ball" from 76 yards and hit it to 3 feet.

6) Tied in with everything else is that I think I just try to be "too perfect" with wedges. The guy who hit 18 greens wasn't much closer than me on average, but he was always putting. I tend to think of every 100 yard shot as a "green light" no matter what and maybe that's just too greedy. On the other hand. . .part of my golf improvement over the years has been always trying to play above my ability level and then working to get there. I threw away scores of rounds in my past because I'd take aggressive lines off tees, go for greens, and always hit driver. Well, these days I'm a good driver of the golf ball and it's due, in part, to always pulling it in the past because all good golfers are good with the driver. So, in 3 years when I'm an incredible wedge player, I will look back on these days and think maybe I learned something.

Anyway, we're doing this again. There's NO REASON, despite everything I said above, that I should have more than one bogey. I had one three putt. 27 footer, tons of break at the hole, missed a 4 foot comeback. Next time I do it, I'm going to be less aggressive and see how that goes.

I definitely need to put in more time on our wedge practice hole, and I need to work on the "in-between distances" more.

Red boxes are missed greens. the "dist" is distance from hole. Score is score. "Distance" is the distance the hole played.

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Dude! LOVE this! Yeah, you need to tidy up this part of your game for sure.

Lots to unpack but one thing stands out: You had some "horrible yardages" for you. That's ... unnecessary. I can honestly tell you that I'm very, very rarely (almost never) "in-between clubs" from inside 170 yards. This is definitely something we should discuss here on this thread, as it's one of the keys to my scoring game. I have two "stock" shots with each club:

(Distances assume 1000 feet above sea level at 80 degrees)

Standard "Trap Draw"

5h - 1756h - 1657h - 1558i - 1429i - 13246 - 12250 - 11256 - 9560 - 78"Cut" release (I can hit this high(ish) or low. Carry is farther if I hit it high. But ball will release a bit/a bunch, depending on green firmness, if I hit it low)

5h - 1686h - 1587h - 1488i - 1359i - 12246 - 11050 - 9556 - 8060 - 68Below is a video of me hitting the "low cut" (really just a straight shot with a wedge) at Bandon. I'm 99 yards and the greens are VERY firm. It's also 60 degrees and the wind is from the right. I didn't want to hit a draw and ride the wind with my SW, because it could "get away from me," so I elected the low, cut GW that I tried to fly ~85 yards. My son, Jeff, provides the commentary. :-)

Conversely, this is the same club, but I'm trying to hit it 100 to 105 with a HIGH cut:

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This ^^^

One other thing to consider is if you struggle with "in between" shots, if you have ten yard gaps and you're right in between, you're looking at being 15 feet long or 15 feet short. That's not a lot. If the pin is back, take the shorter club and just hit it. If the pin is front, then take the longer one and just hit it. If you wind up 30 feet away, then you weren't between clubs. It's also much more likely that you'll wind up 5 yards shorter than you expect than 5 yards longer, so generally err on the side of taking the long one.

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"Horrible yardages" is definitely a flaw in my game. @Obee let's say you have 102. Thats a "tweener" yardage for what you listed there. You're either 7 yards short or 7 yards long from a stock shot.
I consider that a "horrible yardage". I'm not content with hitting a "good shot" there and having 21 feet. even if I missed it in a good place.
You're all square in a match on the 18th hole, and your opponent is in there at 15 feet. Maybe it's a front pin with a false front and a tough up and down and you also don't really want to be above the hole on this hole. What are you trying to pull off there? Are you trying to step on that 56, knowing you might spin it back off the front? Are you trying to choke down and hit the cut 46? Or are you just feeling, "take a little off this" and taking a little off it.
Fwiw. . . these are the types of things that drive me nuts in the wedge game and I never worry about when I get out to 150 yards. And, I'm always torn in between "hit stock shot and live with the consequences", or "try to be awesome".

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  • 1 month later...

I originally posted my recap of this game on June 30th where I shot +1. We've done this several times since and I've gotten under par. And I've put a little time and focus into this. 

 

My original game, the big takeaways were that I felt like I had a lot of awkward distances, and was much too aggressive at just firing at pins, feeling like everything at this distance should be green light.  

 

Pre-cursor to this post : played yesterday and I shot 49. 6 birdies. One bogey. I made 2 great putts, but I also had 3/4 DFCS that could have gone. 49 is course record and knocked a 50 off the books. We have a guy who thinks he can go 47, but he doesn't get as many "screw around rounds" as I do. We play this game in conjunction with a real round of golf and we putt the "real match" first. We call it "big ball" and "baby ball" as in "is that your big ball or your baby ball?"

 

It's funny, but my whole conception of these approach shots has changed. Some takeaways from getting better at this. . .

  1. HUGE ONE : this has ABSOLUTELY transferred to playing a round of golf. I've made several birdies in the last month that I believe are directly attributable to my playing this game. This great idea by Obee that has been more productive in 2 months than endless balls on the range, or on the practice hole. Although, those are definitely the areas where you work out your swings, and focus on contact. But, in terms of bringing it to the course, this is the game. 
  2. I feel like I (almost) own a few different shots now. My primary club in this game is my 54 and the stock 54 is about 104. If I have up to 112, I'm trying to step on one, maybe with a baby draw. If I have down to 90, I'm kind of trying to cut one in. I can do the same with my 50, but we don't normally get the "step on" 50 number, and my cut 50 overlaps my nuke 54, so I'm  hitting the 54 there. 
  3. I'm not trying to dial in every number, but I'm putting shots into "blocks". 88-96 is the "cut 54", 96-105 is the "stock 54". 105-111 is the "nuke 54". 112-115 is "cut 50". 115-119 is "stock 50". 120-125 is "nuke 50". But, the shot is also dependent on pin location. 95 front pin, with a bunker becomes a "stock 54" with a 20 foot comebacker. (aside : on par 3's we play from the front edge of the red tees so sometimes we get a 125+ shot).
  4. I've started playing a little more "fat side" instead of trying to knock down pins.  If you can hit shots to 6 feet, good for you. I can't. I'm not playing for the center of the green, but if any pins are tricky, my aim point is cheating towards fat side. Missing a green is an absolute disaster in this game. The only misses I had yesterday were the front fringe on front pins and one back fringe on a back pin when I thinned one. 
  5. Putting matters, but short putts go in a lot more than long putts. This is just general golf wisdom, but you really need to get those 15-25 footers to the hole. Sometimes they go in. I'm rough-guessing distances, but yesterday, my average distance was about 19-20 feet, down from 24 for the first time I played. 
  6. You're probably going to have to make some 3-4 footers for par so that has to be solid. 

 

Best putt yesterday was a 3/4 footer from exactly pin high on a pin that was almost on an "unfair" slope.  I tapped the ball at a 45 degree angle from the hole that started up the hill, peaked, and trickled in just over the edge. It was the "feeliest" putt I've hit in a while. If you hit a firm putt at the hole and missed, you would have had 10-20 feet coming back depending on if it found a flat spot or not.

 

Anyway, updates to come if records fall or new revelations arise. 

 

A few weeks ago, a guy playing had a hole out. That was our first one of those. 

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When I first started playing (25 years old) most of the time it was on a short PAR 3 course, 9 holes.  Longest 135, shortest 60.  I hit off mats but did not tee it up (big mistake learning on mats).  Didn't take long (a year or so) that if I was PAR or over it was disappointing round. 

 

I'm an 18 cap now and I suspect I would be 4 or 5 over at the end of 18.  If I started doing that twice a week I'm sure I would soon be PAR or better.

Driver: Titleist 910 D2 9.75* Diamana Kai'li 65 Mid S 3W: Titleist 910F 16.5 * Diamana Kai'li 75 Mid R 3H: Titleist 910H 19 * Diamana Kai'li 80HYB Mid R 2I: TourModel III True Temper S 3-PW: Mizuno MP 60 True Temper Dynamic Gold S300 S SW: TourModel III True Temper S Putter: Cobra Anvil 005 Ball: Ksig 3 piece

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I did something similar a few years ago.  I was playing to a 10 at the time and was (and still am) struggling off the tee with both distance and direction.  I decided to see what it would look like if I hit all of my second shots from the center of the fairway at 240 off the tee.  Not crazy long but what I considered realistic for a swing speed off 100 mph.  
 

Played two rounds with two balls like this one from COF at 240 out and one from the tee.  Shot E and 84 one time and +1 and 82 the other.  It was eye opening what no penalty strokes and not having to punch out can do to your score.  

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