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MidCapper Challenge! Short Game Goal Should Be ZERO REAL WEAKNESSES


Obee

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I am currently at 7 too right now. But that is thanks to my short game, chipping x pitching and putting. This season I am averaging a whopping 45% scrambling compared to my 20% average last year. I changed my irons to JPX 900 forged from Ap1 714 and I am still not adjusted to them. My gir is down by 10% lol. I am tempted to buy another set of AP1 714's and be a low single handicapper lol. What is even more funny is that this year has been the best driving of my LIFE. I have not had this may looks at the green ever! But due to the adjustment period with the new irons, I am wasting those good looks. Sometimes I shake my head at the things we do with our golf equipment.

Anyway, back to the topic, I agree with Obee that chipping is a simple movement compared to the full swing. Anyone can learn it. I used to hate it for some reason but when I fell in love with it, there was no looking back.

As for the clubs around the green, I only use two so far. My putter is my first option, I will putt if I can, always, then my 54. I am trying to learn the bump and run and so far so good in the last two games.

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Deciding what shot to hit or which club to pull is an entirely different matter. For example, I can take a 54 and hit a better flop shot than most people can with a 60. That's comes from knowing how to hit a flop. Evidence shows that ability and talent has a lot more to do with success than having the perfect club. And judging which shots to hit is more about understanding what the real outcomes are (useful experience).

So before we go on talking about club choices or shot choices we need to settle the first issue--why do most decent players still have crappy short games? In my experience watching (otherwise-good) players struggle with the short game, it's not because of their lack of processing, rather they just haven't figured out how to properly manipulate a wedge.

The first thing to note here is that most people don't practice their short game so it makes perfect sense they look pretty foolish at times around the green and have swing motions that don't tend to look like pros. But that's fine. All we have to do is explain to people that (1) the short game is important and (2) it's relatively easy to learn. Both happen to be true! So we don't even have to lie in this sales pitch.

The guy who can properly use his wedge can quickly learn to hit nearly all the various shots. That is the reality of the short game and the realization one comes to as they develop their ability to control and manipulate their wedges.

The short game is a perfect example of where you can apply the old "teach a man to fish" adage. If you help someone develop an ability to hit a wedge without digging, you've essentially solved the #1 issue in all short game shots. Hence why I say "learn to chip." Chipping is all about using the bounce. From there lobs, flops, and other delicate pitches will come as a matter of course.

Average players don't suck because they can't hit delicate shots (an ability which comes with time). Average players suck at the delicate shots because they don't understand how to hit the most basic shots. Thankfully, the saving grace of all this is that the short game isn't really that complicated to learn. Chipping is easy! And developing feel for the other shots comes quite naturally!

 

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Yeah, putting it all together now. :-)

 

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It was pretty good and I learned quite a bit, but too many ads. We started later last night and fast forwarded.

She does not watch the IG with me but she can hear it, lol. She’s had a lesson with Monte and the great pleasure of dinner at Parmark’s a few years ago during which Monte told stories as only Monte can. So I guess she’s kind of a fan goil, haha. Main thing is she supports my seeing him!

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Monte showing me how to control speed has been at least what has help me lower my handicap more than anything else. Part of it is that I don’t have time to practice much else. I have a standard chip/pitch shot that utilizes bounce and basically just tosses it in there with medium spin and rollout and do that for pretty much everything from 60 degree down to 7-8 iron to get around the greens.

I’m in the lower end of single digit handicaps, but overall I’ve just tried to keep it simple around the greens. With more practice I could be willing to take more risks, but overall I’m satisfied that a (strict) one dimensional short game with some Monte tricks has gotten me where I’m at. There’s more to learn, but there’s also a strong satisfaction of confidence every time I step up to a short shot.

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Weight on the left side and keeping the hips still on the downswing. I plan for the ball to roll out a bit, but with a soft shot it won't roll too far.

I use the "full swing but don't hit a 7 iron past 50 yards" when I'm doing swing change drills, and that's translated well to simply not hitting the ball hard in the short game. Too much speed can kill you around the greens. I rarely play for a check shot because that requires me to put speed in order to spin the ball. When I'm short sided, I play slow and for a soft landing.

Another good one from Monte is practicing speed control from the sand trap. Take a full swing, finish with a full finish, but hit slowly enough that the ball doesn't leave the trap.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

hey @Obee I saw the videos on your youtube channel for "no weaknesses" and they are really good, thank you for the gold and really appreciate you doing this. I'm actually trying to work the ball and really like your release and face check techniques, your explanations is crystal clear and easy to copy.

will you be releasing more?

will you be videoing about different lies(I heard you reference you needed a tighter lie for more spin), a guide for different shots for different situations (if the green is higher or lower, slope at or away from you, with little less or more green to work with- etc.)?

Thank you so much in advance.

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Thanks so much, Tim. Didn't mean to release those to the public yet. I'm having some severe back issues. Hard to walk right now, Let alone Golf. I hope to do more videos and then compile them into some sort of digestible format soon.

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Titleist TSi2 3H (18*), 4H (21*) - Tensei Blue 65s
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I'm in for this. I think it is time for me to start practicing my short game. My tee game is starting to resemble more of a mid capper and my iron game resembles more of a single digit. But a few more up and downs could get me into single digit range, which would be great. My biggest issues with my short game are the shots in the 40-80 yd ranges. I have no confidence in them and I am just as likely to blade a shot from those distances as I am to shank one straight off the hosel. When I do mange to hit the green with those shots, I generally am not close to the hole. Next, I am horrible from the sand. The courses I play most often have sand like play sand, and I struggle in it. Once I get around the green though, I'm pretty decent with chips and pitches as far as flight is concerned. I struggle with rollout and I can't stop anything on purpose. Sure it happens every once in awhile, but not on purpose. I would say in a normal round of golf, I cost myself around 5-7 strokes due to short game. Mostly it is proximity to the hole after my chip or pitch, but generally a stroke or two due to 40-80 yd range as well.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Obee. How’s the back now?

how do I know my game around the greens needs work? (I am not terrible at present, but I’m not in denial either —- short game is holding me back — but it’s significantly improved from the chip yip days and Golf is much more fun)

Last year after shooting high 70s in a team event one of my scratch friends on the team said “if you don’t get your short game figured out you’re not going to be able to get any lower”. I so appreciated his direct approach. He gave me a couple drills. At that point I was, dare I say it, yippy. It had been a long-term problem that was sapping the fun out of the gameshort game improved from hit and hope to manageable over the past year. Yips disappeared with much improved technique. Played an event with the same guy as my teammate a couple of weeks ago and played well and shot high 70s again, but that was due to a couple rather bizarre events on a couple of holes.played with two of our pros and a different scratch player last week in a one pro one am event at another course. Play pretty solidly with the other three guys, except around the greens. I was generally decent, but had to play some safe shots where they would be able to play more aggressively. Both pros told me I needed to clean up my short game.

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Back finally getting better!

At Bandon right now with my son. Shot a nice 71 at Bandon Dunes today in a 2-man better-ball event with him. Back definitely seems to be responding to walking. I have walked three straight 18 hole rounds, and I can't believe how good I feel. Tired, but… Better.

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Regarding your short game: if a couple people have told you your short game needs to be cleaned up, then it needs to be cleaned up. :-)

PING G400 Max - Atmos Tour Spec Red - 65s
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Titleist TSi2 3H (18*), 4H (21*) - Tensei Blue 65s
Adams Idea Tech V4 5H, 6H, 7H ProLaunch Blue 75 HY x-stiff
Titleist AP2 716 8i 37* KBS Tour S; Titleist AP2 716 9i 42* KBS Tour S
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Cleveland RTX-4 mid-bounce 50* DG s400
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PING Sigma 2 Valor 400 Counter-Balanced, 38"

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Agree 100% with you and them. Appreciate your help here.

Here's what's helped recently. Due to covid I have been playing the last few months principally with one friend who is 71 and not long but has a great short game (two sons were college golfers). We play just for "fun" about 4 mornings a week. Getting to play short game shots on the course in a non-event situation has helped me be willing to try the shots and to learn the shots and along the way have developed some confidence so I'm better using them when the score "really counts." I ask him how he'd play certain shots and he has one technique item he's helped with through watching me. I feel like on course is the best way for me to learn rather than "practice" where there are no consequences (and like many I'm sure I could compete for the club champ on the range ... haha).

I'm planning to go out with one of our pros every couple of weeks and work on various shots, lies, etc on course. He's got a really solid short game. Not a long history teaching as he played mini tours and Korn Ferry for a long time and just came to us a couple of years ago (early 40s and I've known him since he was a college golfer who played at our club since back then).

I do work with a really great teaching pro online after having seen him in the bay area last fall when I was there for a month. I'm thinking Pro X for full swing (online) and Pro Y for short game (in person) is fine. Especially given that the visual online reviews make sense to me and help, and I believe in person with various lies and pins is really important to learn short game (in person). I want to keep it simple and avoid too many cooks in the kitchen and wondering if you agree this makes sense.

Appreciate any further suggestions or insights -- particularly on the process going forward..

As always, thanks and best regards.

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SW!!

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PING Sigma 2 Valor 400 Counter-Balanced, 38"

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Over the years I've bought a majority of the short game videos and watched a lot of the youtube gurus, had some in person lessons, but nothing has helped long term.

Another good Obee thread.

Just want to respond to this point I quoted in bold.

No where in that quote does it say, "I've spent an hour a week for years working on my short game."

I have an excellent short game. I've shot even par hitting 6 greens. I recently shot 73 with 7 greens. I've turned on those videos too, and read books, and bought videos. I credit those things with maybe 1% of my short game abilities. I just skinned on Saturday with a chip-in birdie. A little 60/04 from the second cut. . .if you put a ball marker on the green where I wanted to land that chip, it would have hit the ball marker.

You never hear anyone say, "I spent an hour a week hitting different shots into a chipping green for a year and I still hit bad chips."

There is NO SUBSTITUTE for practice in short game. You WILL develop a comfortable technique that WORKS FOR YOU if you just go out and hit thousands of chips. No one can tell you the right technique that will make you start hitting good chips. It has to be learned in the dirt. But they can get you started.

Random thoughts :

-- I laugh when I hear about these guys who practice their short games with one ball. This is supposed to simulate on course action, or something. Good for you. While you're hitting about 50 chips in an hour, I just hit 500.

-- My "basic" drill is 15 ballls from a perfect lie to an easy hole, say 20 feet. Every ball has to be hit to gimme range. Do it with a 54 and 60.

-- I practice "Chipping Confusion". I practice hitting chips standing an inch from the ball. I practice hitting chips standing feet away from the ball. I practice with the ball way up in my stance, way back in my stance (like outside my stance). I practice standing on my left foot, standing on my right foot. I practice with the wrong club for the shot. I hit hook chips, cut chips. I hit different trajectories with each club. When you can hit chips like that, you'll stop worrying if your left wrist is at the wrong angle in relation to the shaft or what the bounce is doing. These are not something I ever think about.

-- You have to practice from all lies. . .muddy fairway, dry fairway, bare lies, buried lies, fluffy lies. You have to develop a feel for how the club head, the ball, the turf and the grass will interact. There are too many variables to "learn" this. It has to be "felt". I can't believe when I'm playing with a guy who thinks he gets "unlucky" with his lie 10 times per round around the green. You know what I call chipping from bad lies? I call it chipping.

-- Like Obee, I use a 54 and a 60. My 60 has 4 degrees of bounce. It's a blade and it's almost useless from a soft lie in tight grass, but if you need to make a ball land like a "butterfly with sore feet" from a short-sided, grassy lie, there is no other club that will get the job done. I occasionally use a 50 or 46 if I'm trying to run one across the green and I don't like the landing area for the 54.

-- Final piece of a great short game. . .putting from 4-8 feet. You're not going to stuff everything.

 

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In for the content, can't wait to learn from you Obee! It's been too long since we have caught up.

 

Z

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@TheCityGame
You never hear anyone say, "I spent an hour a week hitting different shots into a chipping green for a year and I still hit bad chips."
I almost fit in this category. At least once a week after going through the bag on the range I move to the chipping green. I have one of those shag tubes with 21 balls and start at 50 yards and then move closer using several clubs. I say almost because I normally spend 30 - 45 mins vs an hour. If I didn’t do this I hate to think what my chipping game would look like because even after all this effort chipping remains the weakness in my game.
I fear I’m practicing bad techniques and reinforcing flaws, I typically will stand green side and hit balls using 3 different clubs from the same spot to see which one I’m most proficient with. There are times that I’ll only get 4 balls to tap in range out of 21 and it’s discouraging to say the least. I’ve had a few lessons but it’s been a while so I’m probably due.
in contrast, one of my main golf buddies has a great short game. Yesterday he had a miserable day off the tee and his approach shots were all over the place, But because he was able to get up and down almost every time he was able to stay in the game. That is what my game is lacking.
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Z-Man! How goes it?!?!

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Titleist TSi2 3H (18*), 4H (21*) - Tensei Blue 65s
Adams Idea Tech V4 5H, 6H, 7H ProLaunch Blue 75 HY x-stiff
Titleist AP2 716 8i 37* KBS Tour S; Titleist AP2 716 9i 42* KBS Tour S
Cleveland RTX-4 mid-bounce 46* DG s400
Cleveland RTX-4 mid-bounce 50* DG s400
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PING Sigma 2 Valor 400 Counter-Balanced, 38"

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Great, brother! Doing my thing up here in Folsom.

 

Once we can travel again, I will most certainly be down in your neck of the woods and I would love the opportunity to play with you again.

 

And, yes, I will bring cash ;)

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TM Stealth Plus 13.5* // Ventus Black 6x
Callaway Uwood 19* // Ventus Blue 7s
4i - Callaway Rogue ST Pro // Mitsubishi MMT 105tx

5i-PW - NCW // Mitsubishi MMT 105tx
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Folsom? Still doing time for that armed robbery at Chuck E Cheese?

PING G400 Max - Atmos Tour Spec Red - 65s
Titleist TSi2 16.5* 4w - Tensei Blue - 65s

Titleist TSi2 3H (18*), 4H (21*) - Tensei Blue 65s
Adams Idea Tech V4 5H, 6H, 7H ProLaunch Blue 75 HY x-stiff
Titleist AP2 716 8i 37* KBS Tour S; Titleist AP2 716 9i 42* KBS Tour S
Cleveland RTX-4 mid-bounce 46* DG s400
Cleveland RTX-4 mid-bounce 50* DG s400
Cleveland RTX-4 full-sole 56* DG s400
Cleveland RTX-4 low-bounce 60* DG s400
PING Sigma 2 Valor 400 Counter-Balanced, 38"

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You know it, I gotta get those game tickets somehow!

Cobra LTDx LS 10.5* // LA Golf DJ Series 65 (5)
TM Stealth Plus 13.5* // Ventus Black 6x
Callaway Uwood 19* // Ventus Blue 7s
4i - Callaway Rogue ST Pro // Mitsubishi MMT 105tx

5i-PW - NCW // Mitsubishi MMT 105tx
Vokey SM8 52.12F S300
Vokey SM8 56.14F S200
Vokey SM8 60.14K S200
Odyssey 2 ball ten
Callaway Chrome Soft X LS

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  • 3 weeks later...

Obee - I'm definitely looking forward to learn from this thread and although not a mid-handicapper (I'm a 26) I anticipate getting a lot out of it.

For various reasons, I stopped playing golf in 2009 and didn't touch my clubs again until I retired in May 2019. At this time I stopped playing, I was a 16 (normally shot high 80's and broke 40 for 9 twice) and when I started up again last year, my guess is that I was around a 32, so I've actually come down some in the past year. At 64 and after a 10-year layoff, I have lost a lot of distance making my wedge game and putting that much more important. BTW, I can really relate to your bag as I carry a 12* Driver, 5 and 7 woods, 4,5 and 6 hybrids, 7-Pw and 53* and 59* wedges. In place of the 7-iron, I sometimes play a 7-hybrid.

My goal is to get back to around 16.

Clubs: Ping (Driver, 5W, 5H, 6H, 7i-UW), Cleveland (wedges), Odyssey 2-Ball counter balanced

Ball: Maxfli Tour (yellow) or Vice Pro (neon lime); Callaway ORG 7 bag; Shot Scope x5

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Club face loft control. A forgotten and possibly untold aspect of short game. Do I want to strengthen loft through the shot, keep it the same, or add more? I ask myself that before almost every shot around the green.

I'm not perfect, I struggle with some shots (short side below the hole with the green running away from me) but my short game is a major factor in scoring well.

2 under today and hit 11 greens.

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      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

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