Dropping a middle club (e.g. 5 iron) from the bag

[joostin]

Curious if anyone has dropped a weird club in favor of an extra wedge or long club? It's normal to hear someone drop a club at the top end to add something at the bottom end, or vice versa. You know, drop a 3 wood to add a lob wedge; drop a gap wedge to add a hybrid. OR switch between a 5 wood and a driving iron depending on the course you're going to play or the conditions. I want to keep ALL those options and have decided to drop 5 iron! This post is self indulgent to justify my crazy...

I'm adding a low loft 3 wood - TEE CBX 13.5* - for S's & G's, but don't want to drop anything at top or bottom. My 5 wood, 3-4 irons, and 4 wedges all get a decent amount of use. Some rounds I'll go without using a couple of those clubs, but same can be said for 5-9 irons. I honestly like all those top and bottom clubs. The top clubs are mainly off the tee, but I'll even chip with them and of course punch out from trees where I like to visit. Why not drop a middle club that I can make up with surrounding clubs? For me 5 iron is a one trick pony; it's a 190 to 200 yd club which I don't get all that much outside of the driving range. In its place is my trusty MP-H4 4 iron. It's so easy to launch high but can be worked low. If I take a little off by making a cutoff swing, grip down an inch, try hitting high fade, etc., I think it will cover the 5 iron just fine. Even if I screw up 12 yd long or short I'm probably ok (same with stepping on a 6 and coming up short). My expectations aren't super high from 200. If 4 was harder to hit I would drop that but it's not, and I'd rather drop 5 over a shorter iron.

I prefer lots of tee options and all 4 wedges. The low loft 3 wood will be a 2nd driver that can be worked left and right. Driver for me has been a revelation once I found a setup that takes the left side out of play, but man it's the only thing I can't draw. 5W is great off tee or deck, stinger, high ball, whatever. 3 iron is a nice gap behind, and is my favorite club to hit flush. I'm not worried about filling the gap between driver and 5W, just something fun to bomb with the potential of hitting off the deck.

Heck... Half-bag players don't seem to mind missing a few middle clubs, nor do their scores. Some dudes can go sub 80 with a 7 iron.

I think woods, hybrids, driving irons, and wedges deserve the love that set irons get. Can you get by if your 195 yard approach isn't pin high? Let's show those guys some love and keep em ALL in the bag. Who's with me?!

[Metro-PA]

Your bag.... your decision. Haven't thought about it, but you have a point. Heck... I'd be willing to bet that you could drop every other iron and not miss a beat.

 

[animalgolfs]

I play i500 in power spec I only carry 13 clubs {minus 5i}. I could add a 13* fw as you mention to get the 14th

 

I generally only play 9 clubs as it is

[Christen_The_Sloop]

It makes more sense to take one from one of the ends as they are more "extreme." It really depends on the course, if you are a better player, which I am not these days. It doesn't matter which 14 I take out I wish I had to two different or vice versa.

[Yuck]

I take it you don’t often play 190-200 yard par 3s. Or 460 - 480 yard par 4’s. Skipping the 5 iron leaves you with about a 25 yard gap. If the gap is squarely on a distance you hardly ever play, go for it. If yo start playing 7200+ yard courses, you might want it back in.

[Rapidcat]

I don't play a 5 iron, my gapping between 5 and 6 is only 8 yards in carry.

I lengthened my 6 iron by half inch and as such gapping is workable between 7 to 6 to 4.

May choose to weaken my 4 iron by a degree but need to do some testing post Covid.

[DaveGoodrich]

The concept is sound. Having tight yardage gaps in your middle irons doesn't tend to help your score compared to having the right (for you and the courses you play) specialty clubs at both ends of the bag. https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1629172/taking-a-club-out-of-the-middle-of-the-bag#latest

[gvogel]

If you have a 4-hybrid or 7-wood that you can hit with a 3/4 swing, when necessary, I don't think that dropping your 5-iron would be a problem.

[Myherobobhope]

Honestly, I think this comes down to options needed in your day to day play... one thing we don't often talk about is where you are playing consistently. Tour pros will change some of their clubs out based on the course they are playing that week, I think it's something that is glossed over for regular golfers as well.

Personally, I play 90% of my rounds at the same club. I don't carry a 5 iron. There isn't a shot on the course that requires a 5 iron for me... The closest I get is a par 3 downhill that plays into the wind... if I'm playing from the tips, I might hit a five iron, but I'd rather lay off my utility iron and take a softer swing. I'm long enough off the tee here that a five iron into a green means something has gone horribly wrong. With the right wind, it MIGHT be the club of choice into 2 par 5s, but I haven't missed my 5 thus far.

I also just don't like my 5 iron and never have... It's probably the club I'm least confident with through my entire bag. I'd rather hit a utility 4 or a hard 6.

I currently only carry 13 clubs, though. My most recent purchase was 6-pw, so I didn't bother to worry about a 5. I'm not sure what will go in at slot 14 whenever I fill it, but it will most likely be something that offers more utility than a "regular" 5 iron.

So yes, drop the 5 iron if it doesn't fill a role in your bag at the courses you frequent.

[jmkenn0]

Similar - with my 6 iron, I just never found myself needing that yardage for that, 180ish, but I wanted to add another wedge, so I just kept a rough tally of the yardages on my shots for a month, and it turned out the 6 iron could go.

[Myherobobhope]

Yeah, I always find the "make sure your gaps are good" conversations interesting... Gaps for what? I don't care that I have a 20 yard gap between my 6 and 4... I rarely have that distance on my home course, and if I do it's due to wind or I've yanked a drive... I'd much rather lay off the 4 iron (which I'm more comfortable taking a full swing with) for that distance, the one time it comes up every 100 holes...

[hagimihale]

I took my 5i out of the bag. Choke down on a 4 where needed (and I don't miss the 5). Gives me an extra spot to use depending on the course I'm playing.

Currently go back and forth between a 3rd wedge, or a DI for windy days when I want a low-running shot off the tee.

[MelloYello]

There is something that feels distinctly temporary about removing an iron, like even if it works it's not destined to last very long.

I can't say there's anything wrong with it given that my 4i and 5i are far and away my least-used clubs. But I still don't think I would ever permanently remove one.

Again, I think this only makes sense if you (1) play the same course all the time and (2) never seem to hit it off the tee or on approach shots. If that's the case, it's hard to believe a soft 4 or a firm 6 could suffice as said above.

[jmkenn0]

Its an interesting case of weighing needs. To me, lets say 80% of my approach shots are within 150 yards of the hole. So I feel that I'm going to be better with more clubs in that range of 80-150 yards, then I am needing an iron that is in that 180 range, which might be 2% of the yardage I need off the tee and for approaches? The other thing I consider is how good am I really with a "stock" 6 iron - am I accurate enough with a hard 7 or 3/4 5 iron to get me on or around the green and keep more wedges in play? Cause I'm definitely not good enough to be flag hunting from that distance.

 

[joostin]

You are correct, local courses are only 6000 to 7000, but there are a few holes in that range including short 500 yd par 5s where 5 iron can come into play.. depending if I'm driving well, if windy. Will be interesting..Always wondered if the extra length and a degree change is that noticeable. TXG did a grip down test recently.. iirc Matt's 6 iron gripped down an inch didn't really lose yardage but lowered dynamic loft and spin.Thanks DG, didn't look up that thread, but right up my alley. I remember seeing the gaps recommended by Pelz in his Short Game Bible.

[joostin]

Yup my 4 iron is so beefy it basically plays like a hybrid.. actually dropped a 4 hybrid for it.Good thoughts, I'm not alone! Would be a good idea to tally yardage or club usage for a few rounds. Though to play Devil's Advocate it's not just normal courses played or conditions, it's also my own inconsistency: crap drives, swinging 108 or 115 that day, if I suck or am amazing that day LOL. 5 iron yardage can come into play more or less. Who knows.. shockingly long 6 irons have come out of nowhere and it's not even hot faced. I've gone without touching SW all round. Weird game. Will see..

[Myherobobhope]

Good luck!

[LCP]

Technically, I jump from a "strong" 5 iron to a 2 iron (G410 5 iron at 22º with an X100 shaft to a U85 2 iron at 18º with a Modus 105X shaft). That's with 4 wedges at the short end, and a strong 5 wood, strong 3 wood and driver at the long end.

I feel there's a bit of a gap there, but it's really due to the low launch of the 2 iron making its distance inconsistent because of launch angle and rollout varying so much. But it's the club I want off the tee on tighter par 4's that aren't too long. With X-flex swing speed, you really have to make some compromises on gaps if you're not playing 15-16 clubs.

[joostin]

That's the kind of bag I like to see. And wow that must be a long a** 5 iron!

[Dan Drake]

@joostin Now we are talking! Also, @DaveGoodrich I'm sure your eyes lit up when you saw this thread get started! Also a shout out to @Saint John who would probably be interested in these threads.
The basic premise here is a very sound one, at least in my opinion, and I am working on talking to a few people in the know to see if I can get some hard data to back up the idea. The idea is a simple one: By setting up your bag with more optimal (most often descending) yardage gaps, as opposed to consistent (or even random, gasp!) gaps, you can better match up your ability to hit shots closer based on how far you are from the hole AND the shots that you face/struggle with most often.
This is most often going to be done by taking a club out of the "middle" of the bag, as opposed to removing one from the top or bottom of the bag. (Also, a huge caveat here is that you have to be playing from at least somewhat close to the correct set of tees for your game for this strategy to make sense. If you are hitting a ton of 4i's into greens, this might not be for you AND you probably would have a lot more fun if you considered moving up a set, or two honestly, of tee markers!)@joostin Since this is kinda my wheelhouse, I want to help you as much as possible. Thank you for the info you provided in the OP. Would you mind giving me your yardages for the middle of your bag, say 5w-9i? Thank you!

[Gr8Balls]

Not OP, but very interested as I'm considering the same sort of move and carry a similar-ish setup.

 

Carry yardage (at sea level) as follows, fairly weak lofted irons (4i - 24°, 7i - 35°):

4w - 245

2i - 240 if hitting it high, usually play low runners in wind @ ~220

3i - 220, interchange with 2i & 4w depending on wind

4i - 205

5i - 192

6i - 180

7i - 167

8i - 155

9i - 144

 

I typically find at my home course I hit my 5 and 6 irons once or twice each per round, and could reasonably adapt to something longer/shorter. Two of those shots are the opening two tee shots, 5i to a short hard dogleg left par4 leaving 110-150yds depending on angle, and 6i to the flat section before a steep downhill fairway leaving ~120yds. The rest of shots with either tend to be flighted into the wind, scrambling from a punch out or lateral hazard drop, and 2nd shot on our short par 5.

Any ideas?

[Dan Drake]

@Gr8Balls Happy to help! If you are telling me that 1/2 of the time that you are hitting your 5 & 6i's are on tee shots, then you my friend are a perfect candidate for this bag setup! Looking at your yardages, it would seem to be fairly straightforward: Remove the 5i and bend the 4i a tad weak and the 6i a tad strong until you get something like 220-202-182-167 from your new 3-7i. Most likely, that would mean simply 1 degree weaker on the 4i and 1 degree stronger on the 6i. Alternatively, you could nudge more clubs a bit by leaving the 4i, taking the 6i 2 degrees stronger, the 7i 1 degree stronger, and even looking at the 8i as 1/2 degree or a full degree stronger. Either of these will work, it just depends on the frequency with which you are asked to hit shots with these clubs as to which you would prefer.
May I ask what club you are interested in adding to your set with the newly found space in the bag?

[Gr8Balls]

Thanks!

I will certainly look at bending the mid irons as I'm overdue for a loft check as it is. Great idea.

I already carry LW SW GW PW, so I feel this would give me options - carry all top end clubs listed, look at a strong 3w with 5w instead of the 4w (one of our par 5's is reachable with 2 perfectly struck 4w for me - driver is out off the tee as the fairway is tight, turns left and runs out at 280. strong 3w should get me close to that edge without fear of going through), and even feel good about dropping a club some rounds as I always carry my bag.

I've done the ~10 club bag before by skipping odd or even irons, but felt a little lacking at times. Looking forward to giving this a go.

[Dan Drake]

@Gr8Balls Ah, I see that now in the OP, my apologies, I must have misunderstood that the 3w+ was the club being added. If you are really happy with your wedge setup (full & partial wedge yardages and short game options), then yes, I would most certainly look at both a strong 3w, if that is what your courses ask you to do OR, you could look at building a 2nd driver that moves the opposite way of your normal driver.

[Fuscinator]

I could probably go Driver, 7w (for some teeshots and 2nd shots on par5s), misshit anything from an 8 to an sw into the green, chip on and three putt for my double, and never miss the other clubs.

[joostin]

Awesome, love your enthusiasm for this! Thank you for the support. My yardages are pretty much spot on to @Gr8Balls, generally around the 12 yd gaps.

Carry approx.

D, 9: 275

3W, 13.5: TBD!

5W, 18: 233

3I, 20: 220

4I, 24: 206

5I, 27: 194

6I, 30: 182

7I, 34: 170

8I, 38: 158

9I, 42: 146

PW 46: 134

GW 50: 122

SW 54: 107

LW 60: 92

I'm learning to like the "swing easy when it's breezy" control for mid irons down taking an extra club, so learning to dial back a 4 iron one club back I think will be close enough. I don't play long courses so normally short irons or wedges for approaches.

[Dan Drake]

@joostin Thank you. So this is a pretty easy one for me, as the yardages are basically my yardages as well. Here is what I would suggest for you (all carries) :
D - 275
3+ - 250-255 (hopefully the TEE hits this yardage reasonably well)
5w - 233 (sounds like you like this club, so we are somewhat building off of it)
3i - 215 (bend 1-2 degrees weak)
4i - 200 (bend 1-2 degrees weak)
6i - 185 (bend 1 degree strong)
7i - 170
8i - 155 (bend 1 degree weak)
9i - 140 (bend 2 degrees weak)
Pw - 128 (bend 2 degrees weak)
Gw - 116 (bend 2 degrees weak)
Sw - 104 (bend 1 degree weak)
Lw - 92
Now, you could also stretch the upper bag even a bit more to help compress those wedge gaps down to 10 yards if you wanted to, but for starters, this would give you a great start towards what we are trying to get golfers to see. Tighter wedge gaps not only means tighter gaps for full swings, but also for partial swings all the way down to 40 yards or so. This one bag strategy impacts your gapping positively from from 140y - 40y, where 1 yard of difference in proximity can actually make a difference in your putt make %. That kind of ROI just isn't available from 185y. From 185, you should "usually" be aiming for the back/middle of the green and allowing for your natural dispersion pattern left/right/short/slightly long. There just isn't very much difference between a 28' putt and a 34' putt. It's going to be 2 putts the VAST majority of the time. But at 100y, or 65y, you have the opportunity where the difference between an 18' leave and a 12' leave could mean that you hole the putt quite a bit more often, while obviously reducing the possibility of a 3 putt down to virtually nil. Strokes can be gained.
AND, you get your 3w+ in there as well! That said, if you aren't going to use your 3w+ off the turf, I'd defiantly recommend building up a 2nd driver if if would allow you to hit driver at least, let's just say, 3 more times per round.
I know this looks like a ton of bending, but it's really not, maybe about 20 min or so. Especially with your sticks being Mizzys.
Lastly, you will notice that your yardages with your short irons are shorter. If you are the type of golfer, ZERO judgement here btw, who needs that little ego boost of hitting it further than your playing partners, then we should revisit this gapping solution. There are other ways to accomplish this idea. Again, no judgement here and I totally get it. Personally, I'm cool if I'm hitting driver past someone, or if they are hitting it WAY past me. But if they are just getting it 10y by me every time, I will start to struggle mentally and typically play poorly just trying to catch up, so again, I get it. But, if you are fine with hitting your short irons just a bit shorter, the above setup allows you to attack longer par 5's, shorter par 4's, AND tighten up your scoring club gaps where you hit the vast majority of your approach shots.
Let me know your thoughts!

[Myherobobhope]

@Dan Drake random side question that is gap related... last time I was on a launch monitor, I was swinging my 7 iron 96 mph... i hit it about 180... how far should I be hitting my driver?

[Dan Drake]

@Myherobobhope great question! I have to be honest, I'm not a launch monitor guru by practice, only through reading and research. Luckily, that is exactly what you need because exactly (only) one of my students is anywhere near that kinda horsepower, well done!!!
With a 7i swing speed of 96mph, I would expect your driver swing speed to be somewhere around the 118-119 mph, give or take. Is that about where you are, or can I take this question to mean that you aren't there and have a few questions as to why not?

[joostin]

@Dan Drake that's some great advice, big thumbs up to you Sir. I will definitely consider the bending you proposed. No worries if it means some shorter yardages. As far as the ego thing, I'd imagine everyone who's relatively long has some to varying degrees.. and rightfully so if it brings enjoyment (hopefully without being an ... haha). I think my ego clubs are at the top end and gradient to zero at the bottom end lol. Just look at my GI wedges.. hey, they work! Great stuff and keep this "smart setup" train going!