Foley says hit down on driver

[MK7Golf21]

Another interesting fact is Kyle Berkshire uses a regular flex shaft in his competition long drivers. I guess it’s pretty common in long drive

[Red4282]

Any idea what it was when he was competing for long drive?

[Red4282]

Kind of reminds me of a session had recently with a trackman.. first few drives were nice bombs and decent numbers. -1 AOA. Lets hit up on it and see what happens. The launch and spin went through the roof! I most definitely was adding loft in attempt to hit up. Now i could combat that by grabbin a 5 degree driver... or the more logical choice, just go back to how i was hitting it...lol.

[extrastiff]

Wow sensitive...

I said your carry distance is underachieving based on your launch conditions.

I would explain/elaborate, but it’s clear you are only hearing what you want to hear. Good luck

[larssonlegend]

All things being equal max distance should come down to a simple equation with parameters including ball speed spin rate etc. I don’t think AoA is one of the variables. Launch angle will be. So how you get this optimum launch angle will differ from person to person due to another set of variables this is were AoA plays it part. Some will achieve best launch angle from -AoA others +ve AoA depending on swing and equipment.

[Righty to Lefty]

I DID NOT HIT THE BALL 47 YARDS OFFLINE ON COURSE...I was hitting the shots in a SIM that was in the right handed setting and I am a lefty. The store was about close and I wanted to hit some shots with the club I just had built. This is getting absurd really. Definitely not being sensitive...I was actually agreeing with you in my answer as I am always down to try out something to see if I can find improvement. I have no problem putting my swing or stats in these forums knowing that some agree and some won't. It's all good to me because I am listening to both sides and then I go find what works for me.

[Krt22]

How does that impact left/right dispersion? I can understand if the spin axis and launch being in the wrong direction, magnitude of the miss would be the same? Every shot was severely offline. If the monitor wasn’t set up right such that it spits out a huge miss, how can you trust the rest of the data.

Your whole stance is about using the LM to optimize everything based on the data, yet you say don’t mind the data that says every single shot was severely offline? That makes no sense

[Jacob Mac]

Let's say I want 14 launch and 2500 spin for optimal distance and playability. What would it matter if I hit down or up a little if a fitter could get me those numbers?

 

Vanilla impact conditions and a good fitter should get you to optimal pretty quickly. Not sure why I would change my swing if it is decent and a fitter can get me the launch conditions I want.

[MonteScheinblum]

Chicken Dinner

[Pepperturbo]

@mgoblue83 - I know LD guys tee the ball much higher than most and further forward in stance, but they typically use 5*-7* lofted drivers at 47-50" length with heavy shoulder tilt, which is needed to get the right trajectory. NOT sure what they do is an argument for most golfers. I tee the ball somewhat high too, driver set at 10*, 44.75" playing length and choke down about 1.50"-1.75". My set up is rather normal, except the ball is teed high but leaning slightly back. I get a medium high trajectory and 240-245+ carry at 70yrs old; Not sure what run out is, but longer than most around my age.
Don't know my SS just that my swing is rather level with slight -AoA. I can tell when I am swinging right because the 3.25" tee stays nicely in the ground after striking the ball. When I get too steep the tee fly's mostly backward.

[Rapidcat]

The world's moved on from a golf instruction article from January 2012.

If you took all the data created between the dawn of time and the year 2000, we create the same amount of data now in less than 15 minutes. Launch monitors and simulators of the like give us access to more and better swing info than we ever had.

The cynical could also conclude that we have so much information and how to make sense of it all. I guess that's where a good instructor and club fitter comes into play...and forum's like this

I can say how an upward A0A @ +4 deg has helped me with a driver ss of low 100's mph...added 15% more carry and better dispersion.

I now play with a driver-purpose swing and a swing for other clubs, works for me.

[Righty to Lefty]

The miss is the same as far as the launch monitor saw it. There was 15.88 yards between the so called furthest offline (51.49 yards) and the so called closet to the center line (34.72 yards) so 16.77 yards. That means that all the shots hit were landing within a 50 FOOT circle from 319 yards away on average. I noted the offline number to the employee that was watching me hit the shots and he caught the setup error and told me to just keep aiming where I thought I should be. My stock ball flight is straight and so I don't tilt the spin axis much on my shots as my driver has been heavily toe weighted to slow down my club face closure rate. I feel like I am hitting a draw but the resulting ball flight is straight.

It is amazing to me that as savvy as everyone is at talking about hitting down on driver no one can see that all of these shots ended up very close to one another. If you actually missed a drive by 50 yards do you actually think that you would step up and hit the next 5 drives 50 yards offline also....then post them in a golf forum!? This is getting ridiculous. If I was missing right and left then you might have a point. I was testing the driver for launch characteristics to compare them to see if the loft and shaft change helped any. Accuracy should be tested on course where is matters and the driver performed brilliantly and is still in my bag to this day.

[Krt22]

I just don't see how you can proclaim that the LM data is the holy grail...and then say well the monitor was just setup wrong so ignore the offline data, but trust everything else. LMs in general are sensitive to setup, so if they are setup wrong, you have to take the rest of the data with a grain of salt.

[Pepperturbo]

@Krt22 - Excellent points, and "yes" they are. I seldom practice these days but if I were buying a LM would be a prudent investment. All the LMs I've messed with in LGS have been badly in need of re-calibration. Stores owners just don't want to spend the maintenance money, though. A few years back the last LM had me hitting PW 60yds and 8i 110yds, what a joke. Unfortunately, lots of beginners still use them and believe what they say is the holy grail. Focusing on what I can see outside is has always more trustworthy, but that's me.

[ofortuna]

This is really eye opening. Thanks to Monte and iteach for solid input. No wonder I'm so inconsistent with my driver from day to day compared to my 3 wood off the deck. I'm going to tee it down and put the same swing on the ball relying on my driver fitting to get solid launch/spin numbers.

 

[kobe123]

I disgaree with 297 being the max for a 118. I have a couple trackman pics that show carry of 321.5 with a 118.9.

[Red4282]

Just leave the man be, he obviously aint changing his opinion, Golfwrx...been in plenty if debates on here and only seen two people admit they were wrong, and one if those was me.

[Krt22]

118 on a Foreseight is like 171mph ball speed. 119 on a TM with a solid strike is going to be like 176-177 ball speed.

[kobe123]

Nailed it:

SS: 118.9

Attack Angle: 3.3

Ball Speed: 177.6

Spin: 1344

Carry: 321.5

Total: 349

 

Needless to say, I stopped using that driver as I couldn't spin it.

[Barfolomew]

Love hitting up on it but luckily my safest fairway finder shot is a high cut so it's not a stretch to hit a high power fade..... my longest shots are always very very high but I'm thinking they have very low spin (havent used LM)

[Sean2]

I played golf with an LPGA Tour player today (been a family friend since she was 10). She eagled the 462 yard par 5, and on the last hole hit a 280 yard drive (downwind). She is about 5'1" and 115 pounds. Yes, everything is optimized. It's fun to watch.

[dcfas]

My driving was once the best part of my game. Now it’s a mess. When I was a kid and pulled it my hips and hands got out in front enough to fade the ball back into the fairway. Even bad swings usually found fairway. Now my hips lock and my arms pull down and left. I’ve responded to the degree all of my divots point right.

Maybe I’ll try this hitting down on the driver move.

[Righty to Lefty]

Upon further review kobe 123, the highest carry for 120 mph swing speed is 310 yards that I was able to find but if I can get 320 I'll take it!

Source: Tom Wishon Golf and Trackman

These numbers are almost dead on with my other clubs numbers so I will search for the elusive 310 carry with the big dawg:

Fair enough..I will retest on Trackman and report back. Well you can add me to the list of people who don't mind being wrong. I see points that are counter to what I think and immediately retest. If I wasn't locked down for the past 3 months in a middle eastern country due to corona virus I would have already been on Trackman playing with my AoA and making sure that my driver is maxed out because I refuse to give up performance that can be had by a technique or equipment change. If I get on the launch monitor and my 118-124 mph of swing swing speed is creating 320 plus yards of carry I will be shouting from the mountaintop about how I was wrong. I am cool with being wrong but I am not cool with being stubborn and refusing to look at other techniques or information. Test and retest is what my electrical engineering classes are teaching me at this very moment! Matter of fact...I need to get back to that. Hit them well people! R to L

[Red4282]

Fair enough and i can respect that

[pinhigh27]

but you don't need to play a 5 * long drive driver and swing a million up to get good numbers is the main disconnect here. It's going to be really hard to transition from swinging way up on a driver to hitting a pitching wedge.

 

said as someone who has too positive of AoAs throughout the bag

[extrastiff]

don’t see any swing speeds on there, but I see you getting better numbers (ie shots that don’t float in the lightest of breezes) with a shaft or swing change that makes that more of a penetrating flight. I doubt u would need that low spinning beast to hit 297 carry with 118 swing speed.

good luck stay safe

[Golfbeat]

Can you hit both a flop shot and a low runner with your 60 degree? It's a skill that can be learned. Do you need it all the time or are they low risk shots? Maybe not.

[Red4282]

By the way those trackman stats are misleading. It is not taking in to account that each delivery is Not optimized with launch and spin. Funny that the +5 is optimized on all of them though...You certainly can obtain 310 carry with 120 ss with 0 AOA. Knock that spin down to about 2000 with a low spin head, get launch up with a little more static loft.

Its also taking dynamic loft from 11 @0 to 14 @ +5. 3 degrees of loft were added, when in reallity 99% of people will just deliver 5 degrees more loft rather than 3, rendering the AOA change useless, if not worse than before

[AFcelica]

 

Just out of curiosity is your 5* driver paired with an extra long shaft?

 

I don’t think the point of contention is whether you personally hit up or down or whatever. You obviously have a pretty extreme setup to get you to near optimal launch and spin numbers that probably means you have pretty extreme impact conditions as well. So FOR YOU hitting more level might not be a fit and definitely won’t be a fit without a completely new driver setup.

 

the point of contention seems to be that some people in this thread are at least making it seem like because they get optimal numbers with a very positive aoa that everyone should hit 5 up or they are losing out. This simply isn’t true as many including dan and monte have stated.

 

either way best of luck on your and everyone’s golf endeavors and hit em well

[kobe123]

I have some pictures of me on the trackman that show 118-120 carrying 320-325. The ball didn't have over 1800 rpms of spin, but none the less. I sacrificed distance and went from a 9* to 10.5* because I can't play 1300-1800 rpms consistently.