Use proper epoxy

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

I am a very meticulous person, but got a little impatient and am paying the price now. This is a reminder to use the right epoxy. No spectacular flying heads story, but still.

I reshafted a set of irons lately, my first club building project. Everything went fine. Courses were opening up around here and I couldn’t wait to use them for my first post-Corona round. I had waited ages for the ferrules to arrive and had only 20 hours left. Instead of doing it properly, I went to home depot and bought Araldite, a standard epoxy with 14 hours of bonding time and assembled the clubs. Mistake. The 24 hour Golfworks epoxy was sitting on my workbench and is laughing at me now.

I played four rounds and today, several heads started to get loose (or I noticed today). No flying heads, fortunately, but I’ll have to do them over again and that wasn’t necessary. Explains the pushes I was hitting last round. Lesson learned!

[dubbelbogey]

Even "less than 24 hr" epoxy can take days to truly fully cure, depending on temperature. I've had 5 and 90 minute epoxy take well over a day when the temps were low.

[976-Evil]

I've heard a lot of excuses for pushes and pulls fren, but never this one.

[Nessism]

I'm no fan of hardware store epoxy. That said, how did you prep the shafts and heads?

[Nels55]

I bought a set of CF16s used that had been re-shafted badly and I became pretty well convinced that the loose heads did indeed send the ball to the right being right handed. My theory was that the head was twisting open a bit on the downswing. I hit enough shots with them compared to clubs that were solid to convince myself anyway... It is a great excuse at any rate!

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

I’m just happy I wasn’t hitting pulled shots!

Well, who knows. I was rusty anyway and it was an honest observation, but you’re joking, I guess.

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

I think I did it right, sanded down the shaft tips, cleaned the heads with a wire brush drill bit, pressurized air and acetone-soaked qtips. Didn’t use too much epoxy and made sure to coat the shaft all around.

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

Well, I’ll make sure to let them sit a day more this time.

We actually had a drop of temperature right at the time I built the sticks. But they sat in my apartment and not a basement to dry. Don’t think that was a factor.

[Valtiel]

Based on what I can find online for Araldite Epoxy, it says it reaches a lap sheer strength of around 2,300-2,500psi, which is on the lower/weaker side for golf clubs, and that it actually takes 3 days to get to that point at 77*(25*C).
I know @Nessism has weighed in on this before and he can correct me if i'm wrong, but generally you want a safe minimum of 3,000psi+ and ideally a breakdown temperature under 300* fahrenheit.

[bvanlieu]

From those older testing threads that sounds right Valtiel. 3 days? Crikies, no wonder the clubs were not happy.

 

For the impatient, I like using a heat gun or similar to get the temp up for an hour+ and accelerate curing while making a better bond. Even the light bulb trick is better to get the club to greater then ambient temp. The chemistry involved in all these products has been well sorted by many engineers so I just do what I'm told :)

[flip flappy]

We all do things that we wish we hadn't. I epoxied a Ping adapter in my Diamana Kai'li shaft and noticed after a range session that it had slipped a little. I hadn't looked at the epoxy too closely and after checking found out it was epoxy to add shaft extensions. I still don't remember buying it. Thankfully I was able to pull the adapter without damage and epoxy properly.

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

Where did you find this info??

[Nessism]

Next time be sure to use sandpaper inside the hosel after the wire wheel. You should be able to see bright shinny metal with an abraded surface when looking down the hosel with a light. And don't be stingy with the acetone. Regarding the epoxy, be sure to coat both the shaft tip and the inside of the hosel. Insert the shaft, rotate slightly, don't spin the shaft around, then clean any spill out epoxy, check head alignment, place the club down to dry and don't touch it again for several hours.

 

In terms of the Araldite Standard epoxy, it seems to be okay for the most part. Lap shear is about 2500 psi which is a little low but not horrable. Found a datasheet here...http://www.chemcenters.com/images/suppliers/169257/Araldite%20Standard.pdf

[dubbelbogey]

Adding heat is the best way to speed cure time dramatically, ensure full cure, as well as increase ultimate strength. Heat cured epoxy will be stronger than that just cured at room temp, even if it was left to cure at room temperature for days, weeks or months.

A few ways to safely add heat are incandescent bulbs (remember those?) in a confined space or heating pads. Once the epoxy has taken its initial set then a hot water bath can be super easy way for irons and shafts with adapters. Fixed hosel woods are a bit more difficult because they want to float. I've even used the warm interior of a car.

And, like others have stated, super clean parts is crucial. I always wire brush metal parts to remove old epoxy, sand shaft tips and clean with solvent. Sorta like painting a house, prep is 90% of the work.

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

Thanks for these tips, guys!

 

I wonder, if I just lean the clubs in the oven in my kitchen, that should work, no? I mean, with an open door and reasonable temperature setting, this shouldn't do any harm to the ferrules and speed up and strengthen curing. How long do you think is a good time? I won't go to sleep with a running oven, but an hour or two when I'm awake and in the apartment, checking every few minutes, should that do it?

 

I might also be looking for a heat pad, as mentioned in another thread. Somebody said they folded a heat pad against a wall and put their freshly glued clubs on it to cure. Sounds like a great idea and they said it doesn't hurt the ferrules and speeds up curing immensely.

[Nessism]

For what it's worth, a lot of the so called "shafting epoxy" as sold by golf supply houses is repackaged Epoweld 8200. I think the same stuff can be found in the blue Hardman Double Bubble packages. This epoxy is a fair bit stronger than the Araldite standard epoxy so it provides a safety factor compared to the generic stuff. And yes, there are lots of people around that use all kinds of regular hardware store epoxy and report "never had a failure." Good on them but it's still better to use a proper epoxy with a proven track record.

[Nels55]

Bad idea! The curing epoxy off gasses and you don't want that in the oven where you are going to be baking cookies. Also ovens are best used with the door shut. I would go with the heat pad or similar idea if I was you!

[Nessism]

The dashboard of a car parked in the sun makes a great heating rack. Be sure to allow the clubs to cure at room temperature for 8 hours first though. You don't need to wait that long if you can come up with some way to boost the temperature. As mentioned, an old fashion light bulb works good. Personally, I use a $8 Harbor Freight hot air gun set on low and pushed back a couple of feet, blowing into a air dam built around the clubs using scrap lumber.

[dubbelbogey]

Here's a wacky and idea: water bath temp controlled with an immersion sous vide circulator. If you have to ask what this is, you need to go brush up on your hipster cooking skills.

(Yes, I'm joking and this is not really serious based on not wanting to mix activities between kitchen and garage. But it would work, for sure. Probably very well.)

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

This is getting interesting guys, hahaha.

I'm not in the US, so I don't have access to some of the stuff or stores you are mentioning.

The heat gun and air dam is doable, I might start with that.

 

Thanks again

[Stuart_G]

Also make sure that the fit between the shaft tip and hosel bore isn't too tight. You don't want to to squeeze out too much epoxy and end up starving the glue joint.

[976-Evil]

Definitely joking man lol

[cristphoto]

The Golfworks web site lists the shear strength for its various shaft epoxies. In the question and answer section people usually always ask about shear strength. Surprisingly even though the epoxies typically set up in x hours and fully cure in xx hours, the tech people share that the epoxies often have ratings (not usually posted) that show epoxies continue to cure for about a week. I only build clubs for myself and always wait about 48 hours before using the clubs. Never had a failure.

[Nels55]

Here is precise way to cure epoxy: Heating & curing systems | GolfMechanixI thought that I saw somewhere a box setup with a heat gun or some other heat source in a box of some sort to do the same but can't seem to find it. Might have been in one of the tour van videos?

[DallasSteve]

If you are going to use your wife's heating pad, be sure to also use an old towel so no epoxy gets on the heating paid. Some lessons are learned the hard way . . .

[A.Princey]

Not that it matters, but I always coat the inside of the hosel for the main application, and apply a very thin layer to the prepped shaft area as well, no telling how much epoxy gets displaced by the shaft(or hosel) upon insertion. This way, every part of bonded surface area is sure to have epoxy between the two bonding object surfaces. I've seen tight fits where the epoxy is scraped off the inner wall and pushed up into the shaft opening, or where the hosel scrapes away the epoxy from the shaft on the way in, so deep in the hosel very little to no epoxy remains to bond anything. Again this is MY best way of ensuring a great hold, ymmv.

[bvanlieu]

I never thought of that. I'm the sous vide guy of the family, so I certainly can make this happen :)

 

I have to reshaft my gap wedge later this week, perhaps I have a 90m cook @150 :) Otherwise heat gun pointed at club from distance does the trick in a pinch.

 

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

But for how long? I have a heat gun with a low setting. What is a useful duration?

I could also build an air dam as mentioned earlier, but if it could be done by hand...

[cristphoto]

All these suggestions are probably effective at speeding up the curing process. But unless you are a tour pro and need a quick fix, why would anyone re-shaft their clubs and rush the curing process when they plan on playing the next day? Seems a needless risk when waiting several more hours or an extra day gives you the assurance of a ready-to-play club. Just my two cents.

[Bridges]

It makes no difference what you are doing. If you get in a hurry you are about to screw up.