Do you throw or twist?

[hoselpalooza]

On 6/30/2021 at 4:30 PM, hoselpalooza said:

Hey guys, a little late to this thread. How can I tell if I throw or twist (or both), and why should I care?

 

sorry if my tone was a bit brusque but i'm genuinely curious. 

 

[Saltire]

On 6/29/2021 at 12:35 PM, Nail_It said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, the Shawn Clement 'Baton Twirl' video I've posted is spot-on for this type of wrist action release technique. Here it is again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Should this be a natural movement, a result of loose hands and wrists, or does it have to be forced?

 

The reason I ask is that I have a tendancy to hold off my follow through, do I need to force this motion at first?

[GreatStrike]

16 hours ago, Saltire said:

Should this be a natural movement, a result of loose hands and wrists, or does it have to be forced?

 

The reason I ask is that I have a tendancy to hold off my follow through, do I need to force this motion at first?

 

 

The goal is for 'Swinging Left'  to become a natural movement of your golf swing. As with any other movement of an individual's golf swing it is a learned movement that is precipitated by the golfer's intention and visual perception.

 

To perform a sound golf swing you must control the golf club, that does not necessarily mean loose hand and wrists, which would likely thwart or prevent the golfer from controlling the golf club. When holding a pencil to write on paper you actually hold the pencil rather tightly - same with a toothbrush. You can hold (clamp) the handle of a golf club quite securely without giving it a death grip or overly inhibiting the wrists to c0ck an uncock.  'Swinging Left' should not be a forced movement per se. It's important to understand that 'Swinging Left'  is a description of the direction (or pathway) in which the hands (a.k.a. 'hand path') take in the late downswing. This 'Swinging Left'  movement can be commence as early as P5.5 in the downswing.

 

Most experienced golfers know what they want to do with their body and the golf club they're swinging when they make a golf swing.  To get your hand path to 'swing left' you're going to want to visualize your hand path 'swinging left' or 'exiting left' in the latter part of the downswing in your mind. That visualization and mental perception of what you want to do with the golf club is usually all that is needed to accomplish the task. Then you're going to want to figure out how best to accomplish it - your choices are either primarily with your pivot or by you directing your arms to move the hands in that direction. If you are like most healthy adults with a typical neurological system capable of processing and sensing your body's movements and able to move your appendages accordingly,  you'll find that to accomplish 'swinging left' you'll use a combination of both your pivot and your natural ability to direct your arms to move in a particular direction.  This should not be a problem. This movement should not be a muscled or forced endeavor like one might compare to using strength to torque or move a heavy object. All you're doing is directing your hand path (at the end of your arms) to 'swing left' in the latter part of your golf swing. It's as simple as that! You've made a golf swing many hundreds of times. All you want to do is alter or change (reshape) your golf swing's hand path in the latter part of the your downswing.  If I asked you to demonstrate your golf swing to me without a golf club one of the things you'd show me would be the movement of your arms and hands. If I asked you to redirect your arms and hands in your simulated golf swing (sans golf club) to have your hands brush your pants on your left thigh - you'd just do it without much thought, right?  You certainly would not think the reshaping or redirection effort of your arms and hands in order to brush your pants to be a forced movement that required a muscular action worth mentioning.      

 

I hope this helps...      

 

     

Edited July 13, 2021 by Nail_It

[Paddy_2_Iron]

On 5/19/2020 at 2:32 PM, Krt22 said:

Cogorna has a lot of solid material, this one really misses the mark. Most elite ball strikers don't do either of these patterns (at least the way he demonstrates it)

He's all over the map.  If you want to get confused watch his content, thanks but no thanks.  

[GreatStrike]

Don - the next time you go practice spend sometime trying to cut across the ball a moderate amount with the clubface at impact as if to 'put some English on the ball' - in other words - give the ball some slice spin. Do it with the clubhead traveling down the target line and then moving well to the inside of the target line at the point of impact.. Do that with the clubface square at impact, and also do it with the clubface slightly open at impact. See what the results are in terms of your release action, the solidness (compression) of strike and the ball flight. You know what you need to do to 'swing left' or 'exit left' You're in learning mode, and a lot can be learned by experimenting to confirm your knowledge about what needs to be done and to seal the deal in your mind.      

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Nail_It
grammar

[GreatStrike]

Jordan Spieth knows about hand path, and swinging left.

 

[GreatStrike]

4 hours ago, iSwing said:

Comments from older timers. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/secretgolf/videos/jordan-spieth-chicken-wing-shot/10155824607248968/

 

 

 

 

Yes, I agree - Elk is correct. Years ago in particular some degree (usually slight) of chicken wing was a means an accomplished player used to accomplish making the shot shape he wanted, or it was a means he used to prevent the results of a shot he did not want. 

 

On the other hand, a golf swing (usually mid to high handicap amateur) that produces an unwanted chicken wing is not a good thing - often the result of poor swing mechanics or incorrect intent.   

[GreatStrike]

3 hours ago, iSwing said:

Have a look at this Nail_It, if you would, and your thoughts on it.  Not too often one sees a good video about how a club affects us, I think Taylor has a great video here discussing the fight within using forces.   It's similar to Dan Martin's video when he was talking about the club's balance point and what's happening about that location.   Pretty solid channel too in my opinion. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would steer clear of using the hands to purposely exert force on the shaft or handle in amounts to specifically influence or counter shaft bend. One of the biggest detriments for amateurs in acquiring a sound golf swing is them feeling they need to use their hands to exert manipulative force onto the side of the shaft. I would suggest that its best to forget about using the hands altogether because the force from the hands are destroyers of the golf swing. It's extremely difficult for most amateurs to overcome this swing-damaging habit.  Using he hands to to exert manipulative force onto the side of the shaft is quite different from using the arms, hands and body to control the 'hand path', which 'hand path' has been the topic of conversation in this thread recently.     

 

[Millbrook]

Doesn't Pete Cowen prescribe something similar - trail hand pressure as a pushing down action into impact?

[nitram]

If you're playing modern shafts and they are the correct flex for you, you don't have to worry about such things as Mr. Burke and the others did back in the day. Just swing it brother.

[GreatStrike]

5 hours ago, iSwing said:

 

Thanks for the thoughts, always great to hear additional perspectives.  As I watched Jonathan the only time he used force on the side of the shaft, as I understand it, was just prior to impact- that description starts about 10:33 and he says that pressing the shaft ( which would be the side of the shaft at that point ) prevents the club from releasing totally until after impact.

The other pressures prior to impact Jonathan talks about how to handle toe up bend,  toe down bend,  and lead shaft bend is, as he described,  a pushing down motion in line with the center of the shaft axis right up through the grooves, so that wouldn't be a side pressure on the shaft would it?  Seems like a longitudinal pressure and not a lateral press load, as I understand it.   Are you saying even down pressure would not be a good idea as you see it. 

One of the reasons Jonathan's video resonates with me is I think it helps clarify what Jackie Burke Jr. tried to described to Elkington about down pressure on the shaft, but I think Mr Burke's  explanation could have been clearer, maybe not....lol.

 

Thanks man, always nice hearing about trench warfare from someone else.  I think these type discussions are beneficial.   Here's the Burke video pushing down almost on top of the shaft-handle, not quite, but I think it's in the same neighborhood.   Maybe the down pressure on the shaft axis, like Jonathan shows and could have explained differently, the hands are not really that active- Like I can hold someone under water with my hand on their head but the down pressure is from arm and shoulder.  Just some thoughts to throw out there, and I have a zillion of them too many. 

Nice to see you back in the bone yard. 

 

 

 

 

 

Trying to 'spring the shaft' on the ball with your golf swing, thinking the shaft's spring effect is the way to transfer energy into the golf ball is nothing more than a bad idea. The golf club's shaft and the golfer's swing  is not going to bend the shaft for it to be able to transfer energy into the ball. It just doesn't work that way. With the exception of maybe a tiny little abbreviated mini swing where the clubhead travels mere inches - trying to 'spring the shaft' on the ball is totally fruitless. I'm afraid that Mr. Burke may have thought or felt that is what happens, but that is not what happens.  

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Nail_It
grammar

[Three_Jack]

2 hours ago, iSwing said:

 

I'm fairly certain springing the shaft is not like putting pressure down upon a disc to make the wink fly in a game of tiddlywinks as the golf ball would not be on the face long enough from forward deflection prior to the strike to rearward deflection afterward caused by the club head going into the ground.  

It could probably speak to other ideas, but Mr. Burke got the lesson about springing the shaft from Demaret so maybe a missing piece of information somewhere within the chain of custody between the 2.    Elkington has tried every which way to clarify Burke's message but it still remains somewhat unfinished in my estimation.  

It might also speak to slowing rate of face closure by getting on top of the shaft, also referred to covering the ball;  or hitting straight down upon the ball by being on top of it, which is close to the same thing,  and how the club head interacts with the ground afterward.   Here's 3 amigos discussing the importance of getting on top of the ball, and by implication on top of the shaft, I believe. 

 

https://www.secretgolf.com/videos/vintage-vault/downswing/downswing--jackie-burke/hitting-straight-down-on-the-ball

 

 

 

 

This feel has me playing the best golf I have ever played. Hitting really straight drives with the same thought throughout the bag.

 

"Throw the club on top of the ball into the ground"

 

I have this thought even with the driver, and I still hit 2-3 up on it. Everything is incredibly straight and my miss is just pull or push at this point.

 

Before implementing this thought I was hitting mega blocks/hooks.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Three_Jack

[Golfbeat]

What Tiger's hands do through (past) the ball: looks like slapping or throwing to me.

 

 

[GreatStrike]

3 hours ago, Golfbeat said:

What Tiger's hands do through (past) the ball: looks like slapping or throwing to me.

 

 

 

 

 

Or like Shawn Clement's 'Baton Twirl'?

[GreatStrike]

On 8/5/2021 at 12:10 PM, iSwing said:

 

Don't know much about Cowen but I do recall seeing some spiral thoughts from him, which is good too, but down pressure has to be a whole lot better than up and out of it pressure.  

 

If you're into spirals, this here is your guy.  I love the formal speaking manner from the Brits.  "Engaging the potential for a divot" instead of 'hey,  let the dirt fly dude'  is worlds apart but just across the pond.

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent dissertation in the video. I would love to view any other golf-related videos by him (Franklyn Richards). Wonderful delivery by the Brit. 

 

It's the conventional wisdom, preconceived notions and natural presumptions that prevents 99% of amateurs from ever achieving a sound golf swing. Not only do most amateurs refuse to give up on those inappropriate notions and presumptions, but most have a hard-headed attitude that what they are currently doing in their golf swing is correct - they just need to do it better or with more force or speed.        

 

Did you notice his hand path swinging left?  (He nails the explanation of 'swinging left' (without giving it a name) with his spot-on dialogue that begins @ 1:45 in the video).  I really like the analogy of describing the golf swing like a spiral staircase - especially the hand path beyond mid-downswing as it 'swings left' resembling the last portion of the handrail of a spiral staircase.

 

 

Much valuable information can be pulled from this video you posted.  Thanks for sharing! 👍

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Nail_It
grammar

[Millbrook]

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Millbrook

[GreatStrike]

6 hours ago, Millbrook said:

 

 

 

 

The beginning part of the drill video where Pete Cowen talks about the club oriented to swing vertically (hinging up and down from the wrists); that's okay, but as soon as he turns the oriented movement action 90° to change the plane the drill then becomes difficult for people to grasp, especially with his talk about forearm pressure and forearm rotation, which in my opinion is the beginnings of nothing but trouble and frustration for anyone attempting to experiment with the drill.  

 

[KMeloney]

I have never quite understood that Axe Drill video -- from the unnecessary "looping" motion he makes to set the club behind the bucket, to the turn-down action imagery at impact (making the whole axe analogy a lot less applicable in my mind, since you want to deliver the blade edge when using an axe). Of course I get the general point, but...

[Golfbeat]

On 8/5/2021 at 1:30 PM, Golfbeat said:

What Tiger's hands do through (past) the ball: looks like slapping or throwing to me.

 

 

 

NoTurnCast

 

Pic 1 Cast A

Pic 2 Cast B starts

Pic 3 Cast B finishes

[GreatStrike]

Ric - Thanks for the nice message and kind words. I'm glad you are enjoying the discussion and posts.  

 

You asked what usually is the root cause that destroys the golf swing. - It's usually the golfer attempting to increase clubhead speed or increase the force or pressure on the ball at impact. Next is the golfer attempting to use his hands/fingers to purposely influence the clubface alignment that destroys the swing's action. And next would be the golfer attempting to use forearm rotation/crossover to incorrectly alter either the club's travel path or the closure of the clubface. Also, of serious concern is the golfer attempting to place body parts (e.g trail elbow) into what he believes (or is told) is a 'must' position. Rarely does a golfer's below-the-waist movement (of the hips, knees, feet) influence or affect the swinging action to any significant degree. Even a slight to moderate change in the golfer's shoulder turn (e.g. greater turn, abbreviated turn or angle) won't affect the swinging action like that of unwanted and unnecessary torque pressure applied to the shaft/handle by the hands/fingers or the forearms.   I highly suggest keying on your hand path and learning to 'swing left' until 'swinging left' becomes fully ingrained in your swing, I would suggest that you not chase the body part positioning crowd, or attempting to influence the club in any way with the hands/fingers until you have a sound golf swing, then and only then should the hands be used marginally to promote a slight change in shot curvature.     

 

I hope that answered your question...   

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Nail_It
grammar

[GreatStrike]

Harlin - You said that when you see a really good golfer swing you just don't see any difference between his swing and what you think or perceive your own swing looks like. I'd guess most amateurs have the same view about the matter. You're probably like most in that you've just come to the conclusion that those guys with the outstanding swing results are stronger or younger or more flexible, or they have better hand-eye coordination, or they were born with some magical gene that allows them him to strike the ball like a tour pro - something you can only wish for. 

 

I can pretty much assure you that your perception of your own swing doesn't match that of the good golfer. And I don't mean his stature, his backswing or any variance that makes him a unique human being versus you. I mean it's almost guaranteed that he literally and factually swings his golf club differently from how you swing your golf club. Chances are the difference is in how he first starts the club swinging from the top. Or, that he has learned to 'swing left' yet you are unable to see what he's doing with your own eyes because you have no experience with the technique yourself. The same thing can be said for putting - if you wonder how someone putts so well and he putts on an arc, you may never realize that he putts on an arc unless you have experience with the technique yourself because you are not keen to the trait.              

[oikos1]

I've split/chopped a fair amount of wood in my life and the only similarity I've found with the golf swing is relating the use of the legs and ground forces to generate force and the fact that the upper and lower body have to work together.

 

There's a reason bad golfers are called hacks and chops.

[Nard_S]

20 hours ago, Nail_It said:

Next is the golfer attempting to use his hands/fingers to purposely influence the clubface alignment that destroys the swing's action. And next would be the golfer attempting to use forearm rotation/crossover to incorrectly alter either the club's travel path or the closure of the clubface. Also, of serious concern is the golfer attempting to place body parts (e.g trail elbow) into what he believes (or is told) is a 'must' position. Rarely does a golfer's below-the-waist movement (of the hips, knees, feet) influence or affect the swinging action to any significant degree.

 I do exact opposite and do so to swing along the club's line and to swing left.

 

#!. Pro's rotate the shaft with the fingers and wrists in transition and early in down swing. It squares the face early and shallows the shaft, drops it's COM.

#2. Forearm rotation is quite significant factor, it does vary in scope and there's no "right answer"  to the rate but approaching impact it is rather high. Agree that it should not be forced, but it is real.

#3. Getting body parts in right position, especially trail elbow will facilitate the very efficiencies advocated in  "swinging along club line ". It also crosses off #2 because it preloads axial rotation of forearms. But more significant it aligns arms in the right disposition to deliver maximum club head speed along target line and releases it's energy at the right moment.

#4. Lower body separates pro's from joe's as much as anything in this game. The chasm between to the two is significant and much of that is because of poor perceptions. What is actually done at a high level and what we think is being done is where it goes wrong. Proper lower body allows for  swing left, swing along the shaft approach, a swing that puts COM of club to work for you and not against you. 

 

So there is a cascading wave of goodness from lower body to "positions" to hand manipulation that allows one to swing left, swing along club line & with mass. If you advocate ignoring this, to keep it simple, stupid, I get it., but long term it's not very smart and will lower ceiling of progress.

[GreatStrike]

17 hours ago, Nail_It said:

Harlin - You said that when you see a really good golfer swing you just don't see any difference between his swing and what you think or perceive your own swing looks like. I'd guess most amateurs have the same view about the matter. You're probably like most in that you've just come to the conclusion that those guys with the outstanding swing results are stronger or younger or more flexible, or they have better hand-eye coordination, or they were born with some magical gene that allows them him to strike the ball like a tour pro - something you can only wish for. 

 

I can pretty much assure you that your perception of your own swing doesn't match that of the good golfer. And I don't mean his stature, his backswing or any variance that makes him a unique human being versus you. I mean it's almost guaranteed that he literally and factually swings his golf club differently from how you swing your golf club. Chances are the difference is in how he first starts the club swinging from the top. Or, that he has learned to 'swing left' yet you are unable to see what he's doing with your own eyes because you have no experience with the technique yourself. The same thing can be said for putting - if you wonder how someone putts so well and he putts on an arc, you may never realize that he putts on an arc unless you have experience with the technique yourself because you are not keen to the trait.              

 

 

Roger - Thanks! Here's my response to your assessment...   More often than not, the amateur golfer sees something (e.g. a movement, action or position) in a tour pro or better golfer's swing and thinks he knows without a doubt in his mind what the golfer did to make it happen (usually the belief that the pro used his muscular effort to make it happen) - only to be totally mistaken and really oblivious to what actually caused that movement, action or position to happen.

 

This is very common with respect to the lead hand and wrist. What is unseen to the amateur golfer watching the tour pro swing his golf club is usually a natural reaction to an 'earlier move or action' he made in his downswing. It becomes an illusion to the eye of the amateur trying to figure out what the tour pro does that makes him so good. This 'earlier move or action' can be a change in travel path of the hands, which precipitates the lead wrist to arch, bend or rotate without the golfer purposely making it happen. The amateur golfer however sees the tour pro or better golfer's lead wrist arch, bend or rotate and mistakenly thinks the tour pro specifically makes this happen on purpose by using his muscular effort when the reality is it was actually brought about by the 'earlier move or action' in his downswing. This is the typical scenario and just another example of the mysterious and  oftentimes baffling and perplexing illusions the tour pro's golf swing bestows on most amateur golfers.  Usually when the amateur tries to use his muscular effort to duplicate what he envisons the tour pro does, he locks-up his golf swing with muscular effort and destroys his own swing. And so it goes... 

           

Edited August 7, 2021 by Nail_It
grammer

[Nard_S]

When amateur golfer is presented computer based, high speed camera based evidence, amateur is an idiot not to pay attention. Just saying.

[GreatStrike]

3 hours ago, Nard_S said:

When amateur golfer is presented computer based, high speed camera based evidence, amateur is an idiot not to pay attention. Just saying.

 

I would add - As long as the video evidence is presented to the amateur by someone that can point out specifically what the amateur needs to do to get rid of a problem the amateur is struggling with...and specifically what he needs to do in order to improve. So much I hear said about what is wrong with someone's swing is usually just a broad array of typical amateur-related swing issues, but rarely does anyone really get to the crux of the matter and tell the amateur seeking advice to 'stop doing this' (and this is why) and 'start doing this' (and this is why) and 'this is how you do it'...     

 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Nail_It
grammar

[GreatStrike]

Mike - In order to move the clubhead straight through impact, you have to (MUST) swing the handle to the left. The reason why you must swing the handle to the left in order for the clubhead to move straight through impact is because of the angle of the shaft to the ground and the bigger arc the clubhead makes  around your body - the clubhead is always moving more to the right than the handle is. (You can easily prove this to yourself by a slow-motion self-demonstration downswing simulation.) Make no doubt about it - to swing it straight, the handle must go left. That is the purpose of the 'swinging left' or 'exit left' technique that all tour pros encompass in their golf swings.

 

What's more, since the clubhead is always moving more to the right than the handle is - this is the very reason why most amateurs think a direct 'bee-line' downswing path of the clubhead toward the golf ball from the top is logical.  Many (maybe most) amateurs are just not able to perceive the situation in their mind.  It is a primary reason why handicap amateurs often make an 'over-the top', outside-to-inside, golf swing.  This fault is common because amateur golfers are never (rarely, if ever) made aware of how the clubhead is always moving more to the right than the handle is. Did I mention that when the clubhead is moving more to the right than the handle is - that the clubface is opening? Well, it is!  

 

Did you know that one of the very first things Japanese and South Korean golfers are taught when taking up the game of golf and beginning to learn to swing a golf club is this important point.  When have you heard your favorite instructor/teacher communicate this important point?  My guess is - probably never! That said, it's the young junior golfers that usually figure this out on their own through experimentation if they don't have a top-notch swing coach instructing them. Young junior golfers actually start with a distinct advantage to not acquire the same swing fault (from not 'swinging left') as their adult counterparts because young junior golfers are usually shorter in stature and therefore have a flatter swing which tends to promote a natural 'swing left' downswing behavior. 

 

PS - Thanks for the nice message.  Continued success! Best regards 

 

 

 

            

Edited August 8, 2021 by Nail_It
grammar

[ohakim82]

1 hour ago, Nail_It said:

Mike - In order to move the clubhead straight through impact, you have to (MUST) swing the handle to the left. The reason why you must swing the handle to the left in order for the clubhead to move straight through impact is because of the angle of the shaft to the ground and the bigger arc the clubhead makes  around your body - the clubhead is always moving more to the right than the handle is. (You can easily prove this to yourself by a slow-motion self-demonstration downswing simulation.) Make no doubt about it - to swing it straight, the handle must go left. That is the purpose of the 'swinging left' or 'exit left' technique that all tour pros encompass in their golf swings.

 

What's more, since the clubhead is always moving more to the right than the handle is - this is the very reason why most amateurs think a direct 'bee-line' downswing path of the clubhead toward the golf ball from the top is logical.  Many (maybe most) amateurs are just not able to perceive the situation in their mind.  It is a primary reason why handicap amateurs often make an 'over-the top', outside-to-inside, golf swing.  This fault is common because amateur golfers are never (rarely, if ever) made aware of how the clubhead is always moving more to the right than the handle is. Did I mention that when the clubhead is moving more to the right than the handle is - that the clubface is opening? Well, it is!  

 

Did you know that one of the very first things Japanese and South Korean golfers are taught when taking up the game of golf and beginning to learn to swing a golf club is this important point.  When have you heard your favorite instructor/teacher communicate this important point?  My guess is - probably never! That said, it's the young junior golfers that usually figure this out on their own through experimentation if they don't have a top-notch swing coach instructing them. Young junior golfers actually start with a distinct advantage to not acquire the same swing fault (from not 'swinging left') as their adult counterparts because young junior golfers are usually shorter in stature and therefore have a flatter swing which tends to promote a natural 'swing left' downswing behavior. 

 

PS - Thanks for the nice massage.  Continued success! Best regards 

 

 

 

            

 

Hi, I am starting to fiddle around with what you’ve been preaching and seeing some cool things happen in my swings.  Could you speak more about the part of the spiral before you swing left?  Is the downswing thought from the top something like “swing down and to the left” on Irons and  “swing up and to the left” on Driver?

Edited August 8, 2021 by ohakim82

[GreatStrike]

18 hours ago, ohakim82 said:

 

Hi, I am starting to fiddle around with what you’ve been preaching communicating and seeing some cool things happen in my swings.  Could you speak more about the part of the spiral before you swing left?  Is the downswing thought from the top something like “swing down and to the left” on Irons and  “swing up and to the left” on Driver?

 

 

I'd like to think I've been communicating and informing people about the golf swing technique of 'swinging left', not preaching it. At any rate I'm glad you are seeing promising results from fiddling around with it  

 

Watch the video by Franklyn Richards posted on 8/4/2021 titled 'The Downswing - A Spiral [Edit: I added the video to the bottom of this post for you.] 

 

You should have the understanding that as the downswing progresses the hand path forms a spiraling figure. It's important and helpful if your ingenuity is able to envision and conceptualize this spiral form of the downswing - that once the downswing gets underway the hand path should form a spiral as it continues - with the hand path during the last third of the downswing determinedly 'swinging left' much like the latter part of a spiral staircase handrail spirals down and to the left. (See image of spiral staircase with latter part of handrail in red) 

 

'Swinging left' is definitely not a protocol for just iron play as you incorrectly suggest. it is what all golfers should do with every golf swing they make. Even a delicate little chip should have a 'singing left' aspect.  (To become a top-notch chipper your hand path should move over your lead foot toes.) Swinging up with the driver as you profess is something  I think you should be wary of - it can be a prelude to ruining one's swing.       

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Nail_It
added video by Franklyn Richards titled 'The Downswing - A Spiral

[GreatStrike]

4 hours ago, iSwing said:

Back before Advanced Ball Striking,  where the cool kids gathered,  went into cybercoma and is basically pretty messed up at the moment, there was a great discussion thread about spiral patterns within, amongst other things, motion.  

One of the contributors, a former professional player in Canada and Ireland provided thoughtful visual images about spiral compressions- here's a taste of BomGolf222's great contribution.  This is the only one I have so far, but will get a few more for fun.  

 

 

 

 

 

 I remember reading various posts from ABS members about how they thought the golf swing resembled a spiral shape of sorts, and seeing them posting images of various gastropod shells with a spiral shape. Personally I never understood the spiral comparison to a golf swing except for how the 'swinging left' or 'exit left' hand path forms the tail end of a spiral shape .  

 

I hope people don't get the wrong idea and think their hand path should somehow form a spiral from the top, down to impact like a spiral thread nail. They would be screwing themselves into the ground. 

 

It's important they understand  that the first move of the hand path is not outward away from the body, and that any relation to a spiral really only starts taking its shape beginning when the hand path is around thigh-high in the downing and 'exiting left'.