Should rabbits get the first tee times? Yes a rant

[Under2hours]

Starting to get a little upset with our club. Yes COVID-19 resulted in a delay to the season & new protocols and procedures. The tee sheet has been slammed and there is a lottery. One of the issues is that tee offs are later 8:00 am (vs. 7:00 am), which results in the early birds teeing off later & those wanting their times still on the sheet. We are the rabbits (3:00-3:15). With raised cups & no entering scores should be even quicker. The first week they did choose a time (i.e. 9:00, 9:10, 9:20....). You have now 15 groups signed for the first tee time. Now they moved to one hour blocks 8-9, 9-10..... So agreed it should not be first come first serve, but heck why do they not limit it to the first 6 bookings/hr and then a lottery (i.e. 6 tee times are available each hour), otherwise what was the purpose to the change? If you want one of the first times and you know when you are allowed to book it is incumbent on you to book on the day it is opened, not last second before the lottery takes place & decide to be the 15th foursome vying for a coveted slot.

As the rabbits also, why if we are not drawn in the first 3 groups are we not put in front, with other rabbits too to ensure no delays early in the day? Two-three times we had the second or third and easily could have been moved up (members all know we tee off first and joke at our pace of play). One of the COVID-19 rules is not allowing groups to "play through". We have never gotten the coveted #1 slot & they have not manipulated the sheet at all (and the staff knows the fast from the average to the deliberate groups). Last Saturday the lottery had the "deliberate" group #1 off the tee and as expected they played at what for them is a good pace based on the new rules, but every group behind was exactly 10 minutes behind, so yes it was a funeral procession. When second or third out with average groups ahead the Pace of Play was 30 minutes quicker.

People are certainly appreciating the course is open, but right now they really need to tweak some processes.

I know some clubs want to ensure pace of play and reserve the early times for the quicker golfers to ensure that pace of play flows during the day. Note our course while not easy, only has water on one hole, no real forced carries, no tricked up holes, have to hit is really bad to lose balls) and is playable for all skill levels. It is a tough but manageable walk (majority do unless bringing guests).

[Hawkeye77]

I have to admit I tried reading that and didn't understand it at all, but at least the course is open and it's a temporary thing.

[davep043]

As best as I can tell, the club has instituted a lottery for tee times, and the fast players who once always got the first time now have to be in the same lottery as everyone else. He would like to have his group of fast players get preferential treatment so they don't have to wait on anyone else. In my view, if they have a lottery, they have a lottery. On the other hand, I don't see a real health risk in allowing faster groups to play through.

[extrastiff]

I enjoy my club mostly because of the online booking process. It’s great.

As far as the faster people playing first, a lot of times my club doesn’t want me to play first if I’m playing by myself because I can play in under two hours if I feel like jogging And then I will be on top of their maintenance crew. It’s really a club by club thing, but good luck to you

[MtlJeff]

LOL, i have the SAME problem!!! When i play first as a single , or with one of my friends who rides, they ask us to play slowly haha. We have finished rounds in <2hrs and the maintanance crew complains

As for the OP, i agree with you. Different times these days, however there's no reason for a club to do the common sense thing which is put the faster groups out first to ensure smooth play and make the experience as enjoyable as possible for many. My club on the first day of play did NOT do this, and my group went out 5th or something. We waited on every shot as did the group ahead of us, because of 1 player in a group a couple of slots ahead.

We asked why they did this and they said they didn't really know. And they changed it immediately. We're back to our usual time slots. and like usual now, the first 5-6 groups all play without waiting on a shot

[Under2hours]

Oops.... Let me be brief.

 

Should the rabbits get the early tee times to assist pace of playCOVID-19 has resulted in a crowded tee sheetStarting times now an hour laterLottery system not well set upHopefully that helps....

[Warrior42111]

I think the issue is how does the course and people actually define and prove that someone is a rabbit? If the course did set up for faster groups early they would need real data, or when other groups get blocked on a tee time it becomes a we think this group is faster / better, which will for sure set off some spirited debate unless you get through data in their face.

Side note the not playing through makes no sense, it's a golf course, it's probably the easiest place to be 10, 20, 50 feet away while a group plays through. That should be brought up IMO.

[Sean2]

Protocols in MA require 15 minutes between tee times. I have yet to have to wait on a shot. No one behind us, no one in front of us. Our system is call in for a tee time, first come first served.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Same, but he did day “rant”. We were warned LOL

[Fuscinator]

I wonder if mixing the rabbits in throughout the day helps pace of play for the whole day, even if the rabbits all have aneurisms as a result. (I, too, am a rabbit.)

[Under2hours]

As stated one issue is that tee off is now 8:00 am vs. 7:00, meaning less times early in the day. I do understand the lottery to a point, but also since our course instituted one hour blocks, why would you allow more then 6 foursomes to book in that hour (we have 15-18 groups requesting that one hour slot).

To me it is really simple, once you have 6 groups (24 golfers in that hour) based on 10 minute intervals, no one else can enter that slot for the lottery.

The club knows the rabbits and they assist in speeding up play. To me it is a no brainer.

We too track all groups & their Pace of Play. Crucial during these times of a crowded tee sheet and Provincially mandated rules about golf.

I know one course (Top 10 in Canada) that very simply it is a rule that if you tee off early you finish in 3:20 or less, then 3:40..... Don't like it then play later.

[davep043]

Do they book 15 to 18 groups in that first block, or do they randomly select 6 of the applicants? To allocate those 6 slots to the first 6 groups that reply, it becomes more "first come first served" system, which isn't what a lottery is meant to do.

Its certainly a no-brainer for you, you were given a privileged slot before, and you miss that privilege. I would too, in your shoes. But the club has a ton of demand for a much more limited "product", and they're trying to make things as fair as they can. To give special treatment to a few people isn't particularly fair, in my mind.

 

[disco111]

It all about...................

[gioguy21]

not sure why rabbits need tee times but, perhaps just deal with it?

[Under2hours]

Yes I am perturbed. And agreed a lottery is a lottery, but it only make sense that if you go from specific times to an hour block, that yes the first 6 get that slot & if you are 7th then you make the decision whether you want the next hour or not. Since everyone knows that you can request 6 days in advance & times are then allocated 3 days in advance I can based on 18 groups be slotted from 8:00 am to 10:50 (so no not just the first 6, they just put them in the 9:00-10:00 or 10:00-11:00). The question is why did they move to 1 hour slots when they are not policed?

 

So we are left waiting 3 days to see if we got lucky or not. I want to be home by noon (my preference) and that requires one of the first 3 times (and quicker players ahead).

Update this weekend they finally are putting noodles in the holes, scores are being input for the first time this year (so will slow down the course) & 8th out Saturday so will pass & second Sunday (behind a more deliberate 4some). During regular situations, the first group would laugh & tell us to take the first time as we mill around in the morning, and again the Proshop did nothing to tweak it.

[tdeutmeyer]

Tee off at 6 am. If necessary, pay when done.

[QuigleyDU]

Ok, I was totally lost.. I think you got it. I agree with your take as well.

[davep043]

If I've made the decision to use a lottery, I'd do something similar. Sign up for the lottery, and indicate your first preference for a tee time. A group might want to play, but would absolutely refuse to be first out for some reason, perhaps there are other commitments. So I pull group 1, they prefer 10-11 AM, I slot them into 10:00. Next group prefers 8-9, they get 8:00. And so on. To me, that is the best way to get as many people as close as possible to their preferred start times, while maintaining the random aspect of a lottery. Its an absolutely appropriate way to run a lottery, in my opinion.

[MtlJeff]

Our tee times started later the first week too (8AM versus 6:30AM some days), so yeah there was like 20 groups applying to be in that spot instead of 4-5

our first 4-5 groups of the day will play in <3:30. My Saturday/Sunday foursome is the fastest group in the club and we usually tee of second (out of respect for the first group which has been at the club forever and still play very quickly)

[jvincent]

I'm going to be contrarian here.

Tee times are reduced for everyone so why should the rabbits have preference? Do they pay higher dues? The number of tee times available in a day isn't going to change because the first groups play any faster.

[LeftDaddy]

We have a Sunday AM group of about 20 that are “randomly” assigned starting at 9am and 10 minutes out thereafter. The pairings and the times are assigned by the pro shop. There’s a competition involved, and they like to mix up the pairings etc. Anyway, that said, there is one member in particular who is super fast...annoyingly so. He practically sprints to his ball, and he gets frustrated when he has to wait. So they just send him and his group out first. It works best for everyone that way. I hate when I get paired with him. I’m not slow, but I’m also not fast. Probably about average, maybe slightly slower than average. My “slowness” is more about enjoyment of the round. I don’t play nearly as often as I’d like to, so when I do play I like to “smell the roses” a bit, at least when we are taking caddies and walking the course and playing a competition. I can be fast when I’m just trying to zip around, but it isn’t my preference. Pace of play is very good at my club, however. Sometimes too good, because it gets annoying when someone in the group starts to worry about pace and starts reminding everyone to pick it up.

[Under2hours]

No because it is about enjoyment for members. We pay dues and moving us ahead 20 minutes is just the right thing to do. Those "stop & smell the roses" groups don't have an issue slowing down groups behind. Flow of traffic is important. The 8:00 am group group playing in 4:00 hours shouldn't be perturbed finishing @ 12:20 vs. us who would be done @ 11:00 (three hour round) vs. 12:20 because the 4:00 hour group dictated pace of play.

Again the argument of look ahead & if you are a hole behind on the third tee and look behind and the group behind is on the tee as you've barely left the tee, tells you something.

[DFS PFD]

I don't see why rabbits should inherently get the first tee times? If everyone is forced to deal with the lottery then they should as well. The only people that really benefit from the rabbits ( assuming no group is excessively slow) are the rabbits as no one should touch them or even finish within 4 holes of them. It should either be a lottery for everyone or for none. Still a fan of first come first serve scheduling

[jvincent]

Are there any members who aren't getting tee times now because of the reduced hours? If that's the case then the lottery system should be the determiner of who gets what slot, period.

I don't know how your lottery system works but ours tracks a differential of requested time to actual time. The larger your differential the more preference your lottery request gets. In a scenario where tee times have been reduced you can't cater to one group. If the guys who normally play between 7-8 are forced to move later then that means every is forced to move later. But what about the 8:30 guys who know that they would normally be done by 12:15. Why should they be forced to finish at 1:15 or later all the time?

[J13]

why are starting times changed? That makes no sense

[jvincent]

Start time is likely changed due to reduced staffing for setup.

[andrue]

The only thing I know about rabbits on a golf course is that they dig holes and damage fairways and bunkers. Best to get rid of them with a shotgun.

[MtlJeff]

It does make it more enjoyable for everyone though, so why not do it. Theoretically if every group was slightly faster than the group behind them, no one would ever wait on shots. Isn't that more enjoyable for everyone?

[GHIN n Juice]

Wow, that was quite a read! All I got from it is I’m thankful I’m a public course guy. Dealing with people who think they are owed things like their choice of tee time would drive me crazy.

[1t2golf]

I hare ya!