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SIM Max vs G400 Max


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Anyone hit both of these? I am currently playing the G400 max and I like the forgiveness, but I see all these SIM Max reviews and think I may be leaving some distance on the table.

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It would be interesting if MGS could setup their robot to hit all over the face and report spin, ballspeed, and offline such that we can really quantify what that forgiveness boils down to. IMHO the t

Had a Sim max, hated the feel sound and need I felt to close the face at impact. Returned it. Went back to g400 max, hitting more fairways again. Maybe just me trying to compensate for the loook of t

I couldn't imagine giving up the G400 max if you are hitting it well for marginal gains at best.  

I would test them side by side. I don’t think you’re leaving anything substantial on the table.

Is 5-10 yards worth the $600 cost? Up to you.

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The G400 Max is the one of the most forgiving heads Ping has ever made. Do you really want to give that up for 1 or 2 yards extra in distance?

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I have both. I haven't tested them in my launch monitor yet and likely won't get a chance to do so for a couple of weeks, but.... the G400 Max just looks like the much bigger head/footprint. I know they're both 4600 CC heads, but the G400 Max is much more confidence inspiring because it just looks like you are not going to miss the middle. The Sim Max is much better looking driver on the rack, and it's not even close, but once you put it down behind the ball you wonder how both heads could be 460cc.

I had one range session with the Sim Max and I only really hit like 5 shots, but it felt fantastic and launched higher (they are 2 different shafts).

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I moved from a Ping G400 Max to the TM Sim Max. With the same shaft, I was on average a little longer with the Sim Max. I miss the matte black color of the Ping but have been pretty happy with the change. Played with a friend who I hadn't seen since last year, and he remarked that I was hitting it longer so it's not just my imagination or desire to justify the purchase lol. My guess is that they are pretty close and you would need to compare them head to head to know if one is better than the other for you.

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Played the G400 Max for a couple of seasons. Got fit for a Sim Max today. Not like for like on shafts, but G400 I tended to spin on a monitor anywhere from 2800 to 3200. It wasn't the longest, but I hit plenty of fairways. However, I did have a tendency to block a few from time to time. Wasn't the easiest head for me to turn over. With the SIm Max today, I was spinning it 2100 on average, and I have to say that I'm a Twist Face believer. I hit a couple that would have normally been on another fairway that resulted in a slight draw or fade. Most shots were dead straight or baby draw, I never had an issue with GMax sound, but I know it's a bit loud. The Sim is definitely more muted. Love the look of the Sim. I know it's the same size as the GMax, but it doesn't look it behind the ball, and I am a big fan of the blue and grey coloring.

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Had a Sim max, hated the feel sound and need I felt to close the face at impact. Returned it. Went back to g400 max, hitting more fairways again. Maybe just me trying to compensate for the loook of the twist face. Just my .02......

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Based on an MOI chart that someone posted, which lines up with the M.G.S. chart from last year so I believe it is accurate, the SIM MAX is nowhere near the G400 MAX in terms of forgiveness. The SIM MAX basically specs out like the M6 with a tiny bit lower CG and higher MOI, but very little difference.

The red arrow shows about where the SIM MAX is, and the blue arrow is pointing to the G400 MAX. The SIM MAX is basically in league with the Cobra F9 (weight back), 2017 M2, and Epic Flash (Neutral), sitting pretty much between the Titleist TS3 and TS2. Not unforgiving, but considered fairly middling given the new standard set by PING. The SIM MAX isn't even the most forgiving driver TM have made, the M4 is still moderately higher in terms of MOI.

screen-shot-2020-05-28-at-4-06-19-pm.png

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Agree with this on the Sim Max based on ball flights on course. The ball just wants to go straight along its start line and doesn’t have much curve to it. Anecdotally, I’d say it’s as forgiving as the G410 plus that I played prior to this.

Somewhat unrelated, but I just got a Speedzone Xtreme and based on one range session I’d say the SZX is a notch above the Sim Max in forgiveness (which it should be given that the SZX should be at least as forgiving as the G400 Max), but still produces a flat ball flight.

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For some reason it is only quoting what I assume is your unedited post, but i'll address the edited one. In practical terms, it simply means that heel and toe strikes will be punished more on the SIM MAX, spin will be reduced more on higher strikes, and spin will kick up more on lower strikes. Twist Face will help with the heel/toe strikes a bit, but overall the G400 MAX would be far more stable on mishits, while the SIM MAX has the potential to be longer.

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Depends on loft and shaft of G400 Max - My SS ins only 92-96, but I play a 9 deg max wiith TPT shaft and my launch iis 16 witih 2500 spin - just about what you want.

If you were playing 10.5 max with a spinny shaft or hitting down - you can get more spin and less yardage.

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I agree, I would love to see that. Its a tale of two different "fixes"really; in the G400 MAX you have extremely high MOI to reduce heel/toe gearing and in the SIM MAX you have Twist Face to offset the start line more. The Taylormade would objectively be considered a little more of a "bandaid" in that sense, but if the ball finds the fairway then that doesn't really matter, and the TM has a chance of being a little longer as a result. I'll be curious to see where they go with future releases given that the SIM and SIM MAX were a bit surprising in terms of their CG being not as low or as far back as I expected. I wouldn't be surprised to see them come up with some sort of face tech "replacement" for the whole Speed Injection thing that allows them to free up what I imagine is a bit of weight up front dedicated to supporting that tech, which will then allow them to move more weight back. Someone posted an image in a thread asking about 2020 Driver MOI a few weeks ago that showed a handful of drivers on a graph, nothing fancy really. Their locations lined up relative to each other to the 2019 Driver CG Report article so it looked legit, and it showed that neither the SIM nor the SIM MAX were any more forgiving than previous models, which was a bit of a disappointment given their touting of this "extreme low and back CG" stuff. They still aren't in the same realm as the G410 Plus, let alone the G400 MAX.

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I’ve been gaming a G400 MAX for past few years with the stock Alta stiff shaft. Got fitted for a SIM2 and was fitted for a Tensei Blue Raw 60 Stiff set upright 1 degree. Instead of spending $500 on a new club I’m looking into hanging onto the Max head and replacing the shaft with something comparable.  Do you guys have suggestions on comparable shafts?   Do you think my numbers would be similar to the SIM2?

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On 5/28/2020 at 7:12 PM, Valtiel said:

Based on an MOI chart that someone posted, which lines up with the M.G.S. chart from last year so I believe it is accurate, the SIM MAX is nowhere near the G400 MAX in terms of forgiveness. The SIM MAX basically specs out like the M6 with a tiny bit lower CG and higher MOI, but very little difference.

The red arrow shows about where the SIM MAX is, and the blue arrow is pointing to the G400 MAX. The SIM MAX is basically in league with the Cobra F9 (weight back), 2017 M2, and Epic Flash (Neutral), sitting pretty much between the Titleist TS3 and TS2. Not unforgiving, but considered fairly middling given the new standard set by PING. The SIM MAX isn't even the most forgiving driver TM have made, the M4 is still moderately higher in terms of MOI.

screen-shot-2020-05-28-at-4-06-19-pm.png

Where can I find this chart with all the clubs named?

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6 minutes ago, garyt said:

Where can I find this chart with all the clubs named?


Do a google search for "Driver CG Report 2019". 

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16 hours ago, FairwayFinder11 said:

I’ve been gaming a G400 MAX for past few years with the stock Alta stiff shaft. Got fitted for a SIM2 and was fitted for a Tensei Blue Raw 60 Stiff set upright 1 degree. Instead of spending $500 on a new club I’m looking into hanging onto the Max head and replacing the shaft with something comparable.  Do you guys have suggestions on comparable shafts?   Do you think my numbers would be similar to the SIM2?

Bumping this in hopes of some shaft recommendations.  Ideally under $150. 

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11 hours ago, FairwayFinder11 said:

Bumping this in hopes of some shaft recommendations.  Ideally under $150. 


We'll need some more info on what you're looking for, but if the AV Raw Blue worked well for you then you can easily pick up one of those pretty cheap. I would not necessarily expect similar results though since the SIM2 is going to be lower spinning and less forgiving.

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9 hours ago, Valtiel said:


We'll need some more info on what you're looking for, but if the AV Raw Blue worked well for you then you can easily pick up one of those pretty cheap. I would not necessarily expect similar results though since the SIM2 is going to be lower spinning and less forgiving.

What specifics do you need to know that I can share?  I was hitting the SIM2 further than my PING but honestly for $500 I’d rather give up the extra yardage.  I do think I need a heavier shaft that’s more stable than the stock Alta cb I have in it as my swing speed is on the faster side.  

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I moved from a g400 max to sim max mostly for lower spin and as a result about 10-12 yards. I’m not sure I gave the g400 max the benefit of trying every shaft on the market so the higher spin could have all been shaft related. I did like the matte black finish but disliked the turbulators quite a bit. Forgiveness of the g400 max is extremely difficult to beat. It almost always wants to go straight. The high, low spin ball flight of the sim max is an amazing thing though. I personally have had the longest drives with the sim max which for me swinging 103-107 is very beneficial.

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16 minutes ago, Kdgolf said:

I moved from a g400 max to sim max mostly for lower spin and as a result about 10-12 yards. I’m not sure I gave the g400 max the benefit of trying every shaft on the market so the higher spin could have all been shaft related. I did like the matte black finish but disliked the turbulators quite a bit. Forgiveness of the g400 max is extremely difficult to beat. It almost always wants to go straight. The high, low spin ball flight of the sim max is an amazing thing though. I personally have had the longest drives with the sim max which for me swinging 103-107 is very beneficial.

This is exactly where I’m at.  When I got fitted I was gaining a lot of yardage with SIM2 with the heavier shaft .  With my current G400 Max I’ve only used it with the stock Alta cb stiff shaft which according to the fitter is too light for me.  I should have had him put a comparable shaft into my G400 Max and then did the comparison with the SIM2.  Guess that’s my fault for not thinking quick enough.  But now I sit here and think maybe I can just  get a comparable shaft to the one I tested and slide it into the G400 Max head and perhaps get similar distance but keep the forgiveness?   That would certainly beat spending $500 on sim2.  Just need shaft recommendations that have G400 max adapter and are similar to Tensei Blue Raw 60 Stiff

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41 minutes ago, Kdgolf said:

I moved from a g400 max to sim max mostly for lower spin and as a result about 10-12 yards. I’m not sure I gave the g400 max the benefit of trying every shaft on the market so the higher spin could have all been shaft related. I did like the matte black finish but disliked the turbulators quite a bit. Forgiveness of the g400 max is extremely difficult to beat. It almost always wants to go straight. The high, low spin ball flight of the sim max is an amazing thing though. I personally have had the longest drives with the sim max which for me swinging 103-107 is very beneficial.

I had the same experience. G400 max with the tour shaft tended to want to hook on me and was a little spinny. I went with the sim max and put an AD GP in it and it has been my longest driver to date.

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2 hours ago, FairwayFinder11 said:

What specifics do you need to know that I can share?  I was hitting the SIM2 further than my PING but honestly for $500 I’d rather give up the extra yardage.  I do think I need a heavier shaft that’s more stable than the stock Alta cb I have in it as my swing speed is on the faster side.  


Shafts are much more about feel and timing than anything else, they aren't going to give you more distance unless you're swinging faster due to weight or making better contact due to feel, or maybe a combo of both. If you felt like the Tensei AV helped in that regard then I would just pick one up on eBay and have a Ping adaptor put on it. However, Taylormade heads are much lighter than PING heads on average, so you could have been seeing more distance from increased swing speed due to that. PING heads are also usually higher loft than stamped, so the potentially lower or more "true" lofted TM head could have been spinning less. More speed + less spin will always be longer on the launch monitor, and that would have nothing to do with the shaft. 

I mention all this because attributing these gains to the shaft can be misguided because of the number of variables. You can grab the AV Blue on eBay for <$150 and have a PING adaptor put on it for another ~$30 which I would recommend so you can find out these things for yourself, I just wanted to give you the heads up. 👍

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Posted (edited)
On 5/28/2020 at 5:39 PM, Krt22 said:

It would be interesting if MGS could setup their robot to hit all over the face and report spin, ballspeed, and offline such that we can really quantify what that forgiveness boils down to. IMHO the twist face is the real deal and makes the sim max quote forgiving on extreme misses.

 

From real world, on course experience, I can say that my son can miss the sweet spot on his SIM2 MAX and he loses very little distance. There are times on the course that I’m astonished by the results of his “misses”. 

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