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Is a Two Piece Ball a Step Back?


Girevik

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I'm always sort of a voice in the wilderness on this, as I am with fitted clubs for players who "suck", but I really believe that such a player needs MORE help, not less, from his golf ball. By help, I mean some degree of consistency in the way the ball behaves from 150 in, where a cheap ball ALWAYS behaves like a flyer, and gives unpredictable results in how far carry and roll. The game is hard enough without that.

That good players are able to take more advantage of better equipment, including golf balls, isn't really the issue. The issue is how much help the lesser player needs, and the answer is "As much as he can get!" That doesn't mean paying $50 a dozen, but it probably does mean that buying 18 ball packs for $20 isn't a great idea. There just isn't much doubt these days that multi layer urethane cover golf balls perform better for ALL levels, and there are some really good ones that don't break the bank.

Nobody would play shortstop with a catchers mitt, or wear street shoes to jog, or use a racket with broken strings to play tennis and then say, "Well, I suck...". Cheap golf balls seem the same to me.

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Titleist did a study on this (so take it with a grain of salt), but they had various handicaps play with a premium and 2 piece ball around the cradle at Pinehurst. The results found that the higher handicaps actually shaved more strokes than the low handicaps by using the better ball.

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Not only is that completely believable to me, but I'd have been surprised if it had been otherwise.

A number of years ago, when the Precept Lassie was a phenomenon, Nicklaus played a round with one. His comment afterwards was to the effect that it wasn't just cheap in price, but that it behaved like a cheap ball, meaning inconsistent results. The pros can adjust and recover; I can't.

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I could see this. Im getting back into the game after a 15 year absence and, as much as I'd like to chalk it up to me improving quickly, all of my best rounds at the local pitch and putt were with Q-star Tours. I normally game the Hammer Control because the price is great and they are actually one of the few decent balls from Top Flite, but I definitely benefit from the extra spin and bite I can get from a urethane ball around the greens. I'll likely play my next round at my full size home course with the Q-star Tour and see how it helps me with the long game. The course I played yesterday has water on 16 holes so as much as I would have loved the extra spin around the greens I didn't want to risk losing too many urethane balls.

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When I was a beginner in the 90's, I bought Dunlop DDH II (later DDH III) at K-mart. They were 18 balls for $15 I think. Even on wide-open, easy courses I could easily lose 3, 4, 5 balls in a round.

That $15 works out to around $25 in today's money which just happens to be the cost of a double-dozen (24 balls) of the KIRKLAND 3pc ball. Those 2pc Dunlop rocks were cheap but I don't think Phil Mickelson could stop an iron shot on a firm green with them. Absolutely awful performance, not even long in terms of carry distance. Just low runners that get on the ground quickly and roll forever.

My goodness I'd have loved a 3pc urethane ball at a dollar a ball back then. Admittedly, the cheap-and-cheerful Surlyn rocks of today are way better than similar cheapies a quarter-century ago but c'mon, the KIRKLAND is a steal for the level of control it gives! And some of the guys I know who play them swing a driver at maybe 85mph on their best day but the KIRKLAND works great no matter what your clubhead speed.

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Have you seen the new Hammer X-outs at 24.98 for 48 balls? At least it is brand new product. It appears to be the Hammer Distance 2 piece ball. Quite often Dick's run's a 10 off of 50 coupon's. The bucket seems like an easy way to store a large amount of balls. https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p/top-flite-hammer-x-out-golf-balls-48-pack-20tflm2020tfhmmrxgbl/20tflm2020tfhmmrxgbl

I'd also recommend Srixon Soft Feels on BOGO now. 19.99 for 2 dozen.

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How many balls per round are we talking about here? If you frequently have rounds where you lose 6, 8, 10 or more balls then I can certainly see where cost would matter more than performance.

For my part, I play about 150 rounds a year and go through something like ten dozen balls, a little less than one per round. So saving a few cents or even a dollar or two per ball wouldn't add up to a major savings on my overall golf expenses.

There's a course I play occasionally on vacation where every hole has water and OB on both sides. In two rounds there I almost always end up losing the better part of a dozen balls so I always take the slightly dinged up ones from my shag bag to play there. If every round were that many lost balls, not sure I'd play very often though.

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Not bad mouthing you here suckage is all over my game. But that is the most honest assessment of one’s own game that has ever been posted on golfwrx.

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5w Callaway Epic Flash
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  • 2 weeks later...

About 30 years ago I had a terrible slice on most every tee shot. I would go to pro shops and golf stores asking what was the lowest spinning golf ball. I'd end up buying them but could still slice them. One day I was in a different golf shop and asked the same question. This time the owner questioned why I wanted such a ball. I said to fix a slice and he then offered to video my swing for free and offer a few suggestions. Lucky for me it was a slow day at his store. A life changer. When I actually saw my swing (which I thought was mildly acceptable) I instantly saw what I was doing wrong and in a few rounds I was mostly cured. I then switched from the Pinnacle I had been playing to the Titleist DT - still surlyn but a wound ball. That ball allowed me to play more shots on the course that the Pinnacle wouldn't. Through the years I then played the Titleist Professional and finally the ProV1. A very helpful tool vs a surlyn ball.

What I find interesting is some of the comments posted on this forum where you would think that responders are avid golfers. The comments - "I suck", "I stink", "My game doesn't deserve a good ball", while maybe true (no offense), are defeatist. Take a lesson or two, or at the minimum have someone video your swing like I had done years ago. With todays phones its simple. With just a slight bit of work this game can become much more enjoyable.

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I've shot 6-7 PBs over the last 2 or so weeks and all of my those best rounds were with the HC including an 83 today (PB for that course was 84 that i set last week). I experiment with other balls including the Q-Star Tour (which is my go to urethane ball), but all my best are with the HC. A lot of 82-84 scores lately. So glad I came back to this game after a 15 year absence. So close to breaking 80!

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I played a round this weekend and when I got to the club I realized I’d left my sleeves of balls on the kitchen counter. The only thing I had besides one TP5 and some shag balls were a few of the 2 ball trial sleeves of TF Gamers my brother in law gave me last year at Christmas time so I decided to give them a try.

Other than sounding a bit clicky off the irons and wedges I was really impressed with their performance. And the course was dry and the greens quite firm and fast.

I was at DSG and saw them advertised for $40 for 3 dozen, pretty tempting really. As an aging father of three with limited practice/playing time and a rising HC, I doubt they’d limit my game whatsoever other than maybe the low spinning chip shot I like to use but probably shouldn’t

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2 things come to mind.

1: what do you want your ball to do? I start from green to tee. For example, I found that I prefer urethane around the green. I tend to shoot at the pin and want the spin and stopping power that the spin from urethane balls provide.

2: Do you have to have new? https://www.lostgolfballs.com/120-kirkland-signature.html

there’s some other less expensive options as well. You can get cheap and still get performance that you want - whether you prefer surlyn or urethane. I didn’t know what I wanted and would just save prov’s or any other “expensive” balls and played crap balls. I found I scored better overall with urethane. I still have quite a few old surlyn balls that I was testing for myself and nowadays limit myself to a sleeve of new balls (surlyn or urethane). Once that sleeve is lost, it’s back to the balls ive found or have used for multiple rounds as that’s a day a ball is not going to change my score when playing that poorly.

another idea is to “test” with a mixed pack. You can play different types of balls and really get a feel of what you like. Keep mental notes and do your own research.

I’ve broken 80 3 or 4 times. Every time it’s been with a urethane ball and I firmly believe it’s because It works for me in my short game. imo, it’s only a step back IF you decide it is.

For me, to answer your original question, yes it is a step back, however ymmv.

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Unless you are a low single digit or better, you can't control the ball period. Many think they can, but they really can't. Instead of one-off stories, just ask them to show you their GIR and up/down stats.

A two piece ball does give you less options at some points in time. I'm convinced that for anyone shooting in the 80s or above that it is less than 1 shot per round on average.

But the double digit handicap with a tour like short game will continue to tell you otherwise...

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How? Show me your stats. At 8.2, they are probably less than 1/2 the percentages of someone that has control over the ball. But keep thinking you have a tour game. BTW, I'm about that level too. I just have a sense of reality and my actual skill level. I don't just consider my best shots, which is what most golfers at this level do. Have a great day!

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The double digit guy needs MORE help, not less, and spin helps. Ball manufacturers will tell you that a three (or more) piece ball rolls up the face of an iron, while a two piece slides; that makes EVERY shot with a two piece ball and an iron a flier; unpredictable carry, and unpredictable roll.

An analogy: Who needs a really good baseball glove more; a great fielder or a terrible one?

There is ONE reason to play a two piece ball; they're cheap. And they perform like a cheap ball.

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Funny, lots of self praise but no stats.

I've tried the ProVs, etc again. Just to make the math simple, lets say I miss 12 greens per round. One or two of those is probably due to a bad drive, in which case I may be hitting my third on the green. But lets just say there's 12 greens that I miss. More than half of them I could get up and down with a range ball, if I get up and down. The bigger issue is strike quality, judging the green, etc. I found there were on average 3 shots per round were a lot more spin would make a difference. Like you really have no chance with the surlyn ball. But a realistic conversion rate here is maybe 1/3. That's a shot per round.

I will admit there may be slight advantages in other cases. Like you didn't get up and down but the tour ball kept you 20 feet away vs 40 feet. But the difference is TINY for those hacks shooting 80+.

Do you think you could beat Phil from 100 yards and in if we gave him a Velocity or SuperSoft? Skill trumps all unless you buy the marketing cool-aid.

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The scenarios you list may be true. But I'd guess that most double digit guys miss their shot more than 50% of the time. I.e. have them tell me before they swing what ball flight, distance, etc they are looking for (or where their landing spot is on pitch/chip). IT will be nothing like what they describe more than half the time. I.e. it didn't matter what ball they were hitting.

But keep telling me you need a ProV to shoot 85 because it would be a 91 without one. LOL.

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Where's the self praise? Just because I think I can control the ball doesn't mean I think I have some sort of tour level short game skills. But I can definitely put some spin on the ball, open it up and play a flop, put it back in the stance and let it release, etc. Doing this with a urethane ball makes it more predictable and controllable, period. If it only saves me 1 or 2 strokes a round, then that's 100% worth it for me. And I don't take my game seriously so don't keep stats, sorry. I play once a week or less, never practice, and just try to have fun. Maybe my skill level is better than my index reflects, I don't know or care.

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