Monty says a new tour ball is needed to counter Bryson DeChambeau's crazy distance

[bscinstnct]

 

Throw in “what was Hogan’s secret?” ; )

[Dave230]

The pile on Monty is a little harsh and the headline is slightly different here than in the article. It's "the likes of" in the article, rather than specifically DeChambeau. It's not just Bryson, it's been true a while that great golf courses aren't playing to the challenge they were intended because the ball goes too far. Long hitters would still be long hitters but at least they might have to hit a full 9 iron into par 4s instead of 3 quarter wedges.

[Valtiel]

It was just as much the old Persimmon woods responsible for that as anything else. Tiny heads without any real means of moving/displacing weight, lots of gear effect, and more bulge and roll to compensate. Heel/toe shots would start much further left/right of target and curve back harder, a modern ball would do similar off the same club. Axis tilt causes curve, horizontal gear effects cause axis tilt, and modern higher MOI drivers impart significantly less horizontal gearing, so just changing the ball wouldn't help.

 

[elwhippy]

While Saint Colin of Troon can whine he has a point about the courses. Not every venue is blessed with spare acres to put in tees used once a year. Bunkers are designed and located to penalise a certain shot. They are irrelevant in the majority of tour events. What I did notice last night was the lack of rough. It wasn't much of a penalty when they sprayed it offline. Add in trees trimmed up to twenty feet and there is usually a way forward. And why don't the course set up guys grown the rough in or insist on cross bunkering? I have played quite a lot of European Tour venues in the past ten years and length aside they are not that tough. The only exception is Golf National in Paris. The best are not being tested that much if you can miss a lot of fairways and still make a low score.

[JD3]

Make the bunkers real hazards again by not raking the sand, or if rakes are a necessity than allow only widely spaced tooth rakes. The perfect lie in the bunker nearly every time is a mutilation of the game....again pros need to realize these things are hazards, rather than whine about the unfairness of a varying degrees of lies if they were unraked. That's like saying it's unfair to hit it into trees too because sometimes you have a shot at the green other times you have to play out sideways. Same with thicker rough.

[Birdie Mac]

I had this conversation with a friend yesterday. I've had an irrational dislike about this guy, but I have to give credit where credit is due...begrudgingly...

[pendodave]

How is an unraked bunker a hazard when they're being carried by 40 yards?

Bryson is doing golf a favour by identifying the madness for what it is.

[Smada962]

Short hitters have, and always will, cry about the longer hitters. This isn't something new.

[oikos1]

Correct. And even though he didn't win, look at what everyone is talking about. The PGA Tour loves distance!

[RyanBarathWRX]

Im also of this opinion.

I'm fine with longer as long as we reintroduce risk into the equation. With the modern ball and 460cc drivers there is no more big BIG miss like we used to see at the pro level. Beyond the obvious spectacle this is not in the best interest of golf as a game at large.

 

[Smada962]

I don't agree with this. Still plenty of big misses out there. And even if the ball doesn't curve as much, when you are hitting it 350 if you miss it offline even slightly it is going to go WAY more offline than if you miss it slightly and hit it 270.

 

[MarkTheSark]

Im not a fan of BD in the least......But, where was Monty's cry when Daly was absolutely pulverizing the competiton in the early 90s? And that was when he had skin in the game?

 

I think his concern becomes, and it is a valid one in my books that the ball is getting longer, equipment is getting longer, balls are landing softer, lofts are getting stronger - but courses are staying the same. Im not suggesting that we go back to Hickory shafts, but at this rate in the next 30-40 years, how far will the ball go?

In 2019, the driving average is 290. That's according to golfweek.

In 1989, the driving average was 261. That's according to the PGA.

In 1980, the driving average was 256. That's according to the PGA.

 

SO, in the past 40 years, the AVERAGE has gone up 34 yards. That's massive. What is being done to protect the integrity of the course? I see a running theme on tour over the years.... IF the rough is too rough, players complain that it's not fair. If the greens are too fast, then the players complain that it's not fair. What else can be done?

 

While I think that Colin has a point, but DeChambeau is not the person to blame. This has been coming for a long time now. As a whole though, I think that he's onto something.

[bigeasy]

Did Bryson blow away the field? He only led the field in driving distance. Drive for show, putt for dough. Don't get your panties in a wad Monty! This is getting about as old as some virus.

[ThinkingPlus]

Unlikely unless ball manufacturers returned to balata as a cover material and some kind of fragile wound core. Just think how expensive the game would get if you had to replace the ball every few holes because the cover was cut or the ball was out of round. BTW, can anyone tell the difference between an out of control shot due to excessive spin or just because the ball was no longer spherical?

[gvogel]

I'm with Dave.

And pendodave.

[1953golfball]

You still have to have a short game and Bryson still seems to be lacking there. 350 yard bombs don't help if you cant get it close.

[golfing_penguin]

PGA tour average drive 2019 - 290

PGA tour average drive 2005 - 288

 

That's less an improvement than 1980 to 1989. Yes, absolutely 34 yards is a large improvement, but since the ball and the drivers have been regulated, not a lot has changed. Are we really advocating that the 100m should be 105m now because the athletes are better trained than 30 years ago?

 

The top 0.1% of the game are averaging under 300. It's going to jump in about 15 years when everyone is like Wolff and Morikawa, but that's because people have trained the skill of smashing it as hard as they can, not because clubs are suddenly longer over the last 9 years

[MarkTheSark]

I don't question for a second that the science of nutrition and health have also progressed, aiding the players... My concern is, and has been that technology is forever evolving.... What happens to the integrity of the course when in 30-40-50 years when players are averaging 350 off the tees? The advancement is more about technology though, and less about training and fitness.

 

There's no question that newer technology makes it longer and more forgiving. I've found a video where a modern day guy hits both old and new, and there's about 30 yards difference between them. When courses were built 50-100 years ago, they were built with the technology of the day in mind. Now, that modern day equipment is doing laps around older stuff, eventually the courses wont be able to hold up, IMO.

[JD3]

That they have almost no fear of landing in them means they will often take the most aggressive route.

[hurley999s]

Talking about green side bunkers, not FW

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Out of round is a great point, and I often wonder what happens to some of my shots? Certainly, the blistering causes out of roundness too?

Urethane covers could help with that aspect.

I would imagine that even a urethane covered wound ball is still going to cost $$ per ball, and might actually last a full round or two?

Then there’s the internal core heating up and cooling down. I was told that every drive or long approach you take takes the ball a few minutes to fully recover? The ball is effectively turned into a flat disc then needs to recover? Or something to that effect?

I think wound balls could take longer to recover?

Hard to say what makes sense. I’m sure the ball making engineers were hard at work coming up with something?

The best solution would have been to force everybody to use limited flight range balls. There, problem solved Lol

 

On another note, Bryson certainly showed up all his naysayers, and I don’t remember if I was one of them or not, but cheers Bryson! You did a great job!

[golfer07840]

What a fascinating new topic to discuss.... distance.

 

 

[QuigleyDU]

Sigh....

 

I can't not post.. I mean Bryson crushed the field in distance and yet, a short'ish hitter (ranked number 60) like Berger won.. It all comes out in the wash in my mind.

 

 

[ThinkingPlus]

Modern balls don't get misshapen easily. Most folks will lose the ball or scuff it badly before it gets misshapen. Now offset cores can be a problem making the mass distribution asymmetric. Heat cycling due to impact is minimal and the ball materials are stable over large temperature regimes. The bottom line is that balata covered wound balls objectively weren't very good balls when you include durability and consistency criteria. Higher spin isn't the answer anyway. Pros can handle that. Make'em play Surlyn and fairways will become important again. LOL!

[buchaneb]

This has nothing to do with penalizing Bryson and everything to do with protecting the courses. Courses get longer and longer year after year. Instead of making courses longer and longer, which is absurdly expensive, why not just roll back the ball to achieve the same goal of protecting the shot values the architects intended? Rolling back the ball and lengthening golf courses are two different ways to achieve the exact same goal.

[Jc0]

[Pepperturbo]

Well, if Monte created anything it is getting his name floating about on golf media. He's good at that. I find it interesting Monte isn't competing against BD and others on the regular tour yet he wants to cut their distance by down grading the ball. These damn control freaks are disgusting. Look if someone is able to improve their distance though conditioning Naysayers should put a sock in it.

I am 70 and thanks to the golf ball, Ventus 5 Red stiff shaft technology and my improved flexibility, at times I am getting the ball out there over 250. Yippy... It's making me excited as I am able to keep up with guys 20-30yrs younger. Monte should try better physical conditioning and a savory sock.

Anyhow, we should not penalize anyone for improving their abilities to do better and be more competitive. I am saying this knowing my solution to golfers in better, stronger condition and the golf ball flying further is make fairways tighter and surrounding conditions more penal. It's just that simple. Either keep the ball in the tight fairway or take costly strokes.

[Dpavs]

Hits the ball 345 average and tied a guy who hits it 289 average. Making a ball that does not go as far is not going to change the disparity in the length that much. I still feel the answer is designing courses so that they there is a greater risk vs reward factor for longer drives.

[Shakespeare]

Us old guys can.....

[mahonie]

Hoping that Harbor Town shows how it should be done.