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Monty says a new tour ball is needed to counter Bryson DeChambeau's crazy distance


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If Monty is proposing a tour ball, wouldn't rolling the ball back affect everyone proportionately the same, and then DeChambeau's skill/advantage relative to others be preserved?

I'd like to start a discussion about muscleback forged irons vs SGI irons. That's the real issue.

ChillyDipper gets it. The conversation really isn't about Bryson's length vis a vis the rest of the field. It should be about the whole field relative to the length of the golf course. If 7,200 yar

Consider the marketing scheme for the EXtra Special $10.00 golf ball that is both shorter and harder to control than everyone's current ball. Or the driver that is shorter, EVEN MORE CROOKED and more, yes, MORE expensive Bob Parsons might get away with it, but every other OEM has shareholders to answer to, and a dead zone in marketing is not going to go over well. And all to punish maybe a tenth of a per cent of players in the world who are long enough and good enough to beat up old school courses. Although ..... Colonial was not just decimated by these monsters.

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Sure a million people have already said it, but longer hitters will still be long if the ball is rolled back. Don't use the excuse of 'we can't keep building longer golf courses". You just have to change the way they're set up to make them more difficult. Slow down the fairways so you don't get 50+ yards of roll out, bring in the rough in the 300+ range, they can make a golf course much more difficult if you hit it 320 than just deciding to take away people's yardage. Plus I'm not an engineer, but I'd assume creating a "tourney" ball would be difficult to get the same level of performance as the current ball, but just go a shorter distance.

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There were a few holes at Colonial where you had to shape the ball to get into the fairway any where near where guys like Justin Thomas are used to hitting approach shots from. Thomas hit a beauty- a slinging hook.

The rough and trees really are the only thing to make pros consider not hitting driver on every non- par 3 hole. The thing that has been lost a bit is if you are going to have penalties for shots you should also have rewards for the player that is willing to take a risk. As it is, there is often no real penalty for an errant tee shot that can't be mitigated by the extreme length of many of the guys on tour. Part of that is just built into the course itself in terms of where trees and bunkers are, etc... Having penalties for errant tee shots would challenge people to take 3 wood, hybrids and irons like they do at the Open when conditions dry out and the wind kicks up. Those pot bunkers are basically a one shot penalty at best so you'll take your chances hitting a 5 iron into a green as opposed to a 9 iron because the greens are designed and maintained to mesh with those types of playing options. The concept of strategy has largely gone by the wayside, which is what sucks to me. In links golf you have options to chip, bump and run, sling something out of bounds to ride the wind back in if you are willing to risk it. If you play conservatively you will have to pay the piper on the second shot- that's how golf should be. From my discussions with people I know out and about in competition, most of these guys are mostly concerned with green complexes and prevailing winds etc... You don't really hear too much about a Ben Hogan type practicing a low cut 7 iron because you have to have that shot at such and such a course. Instead of worrying about learning to hit shots opposite of their stock shot, I would think many have decided to take advantage of equipment changes and the lack of spin on the ball, to figure out how to just blow balls over the trees on doglegs etc.. that really does ruin the design of the course and to me it's not as fun.

I believe that players from that Sarazen, Snead, Hogan era were more complete golfers because bending the ball and controlling spin were required to turn in a competitive score on tour. Now the only thing you really hear about is how so and so learned to reduce spin with his or her wedges using trackman. Hitting a dead handed wedge to reduce spin is a shot that you must have the skill to present in competition- not all of those guys do, and the ones that do have a real advantage- I would make the case that Tiger basically lost a year of his prime in 1998-99 solely because he wanted to be able to change the character of his short irons- he was blasting it by everybody back then, but was smart enough to recognize that the skill to hone your approach shots was what would really separate him.

DJ did the same thing- but only as a response to hitting the ball 330 on a lot of holes and having to take advantage of that with wedges.

The most direct route to stop the massacre of our great courses is to alter the condition of a course when the pros play it. Grow the rough, possibly furrow the bunkers, make the greens appropriate in terms of receptiveness and speed.

 

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Great points across the whole post.

Watching a PGA Tour event a couple of seasons ago, can’t remember which...hard to differentiate between them now, Wayne Riley was on the course following Thomas in consecutive rounds. On one par 4 in the first round he hit a long slinging draw that turned into a hook and finished well left. Next round, possibly to compensate, he hit a push fade tending to a slice and finished well to the right. Riley reckoned there was 190 yards between his 2 drives he was so far off line. Still had shots to the green and managed his par 4 on both days though.

As you say, courses should be better designed for risk/reward which is where the typical PGA Stadium courses fail spectacularly. Golf is being driven (literally) into a one-dimensional cul-de-sac and space is running out before we need to back up out of there.

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I don't know about Sarazen, but Snead's go to shot was a hook, Hogan a fade. Cary Middlecoff once said of Hogan that if he absolutely had to hit a fairway, he hit a "dinky little slice". The notion that the old school guys went around a course hitting a little fade here, a hook over there, then a big hook ..... is rewriting what they really did. They could hit the shots, but they developed a "shot" to get into the house.

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Sure they had stock shots- but in general balls spun more and the penalty for missing the sweet spot was extreme- also the turf interaction was not consistent from week to week because of the soles of the clubs and the variance of turf conditions- players had to understand how to hit from lies and places that these guys don't.

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I'm sorry what was wrong with the golf or the leaderboard this past weekend ?

 

score - reasonable

tight leaderboard with the right names

many strategies were viable

 

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Not really. A just tweak the aerodynamics and you can reduce performance a lot in the long game without affecting the short game. Aerodynamic drag is heavily influenced by velocity.

 

They really just need to punish offline shots more. There were so many times this week where someone 20 yards off the fairway had an easy shot into the green. Hitting the fairway at high club head speed is hard, but it doesn't matter if there is no punishment for missing the fairway.

 

 

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Golf club and golf ball sales have long been driven by the promise of more distance. It has driven up the cost of golf and added to the time it takes to play a round. Is the game really easier because a 27* club has a 7 on the bottom instead of 5? Yes longer hitters will always be longer but that isn’t the point. The point is to maintain the integrity of the course they will continually need to be extended off the tee, greens will need to be ever more severe and those things drive up costs. Is Sunday at The Masters more exciting now than in the 70’s or 80’s? Not to me it isn’t.

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"The most direct route to stop the massacre of our great courses is to alter the condition of a course when the pros play it. Grow the rough, possibly furrow the bunkers, make the greens appropriate in terms of receptiveness and speed."

 

Are you not trading one type of massacre for another?

How about we just accept that pros are pros and deserve/need to play under a different set of equipment? I'd start with the ball if I had my druthers because they cost about $4. Next to a tee I'd be willing to bet they are the cheapest bit of equipment used during the actual playing of the round. And it is used on every shot.

 

If money was no object I would really reign them back in with a reduction in club head size, COR and addition of spin back to the ball. Basically replicate the performance of equipment before steel headed drivers (modern ones not those first ones from the 50's that didn't take) and graphite shafts.

 

I think we have a great luxury in that we can look back and pick a point in the game's history and choose where to draw the line and know, fairly accurately, how that equipment will perform and the game will look. Having said that, I would like to think that the current limits of the rules have halted distance gains via the equipment. But since the USGA was late to the game in stopping the gains made during the 2000's the courses have not caught up with "Tiger-Proofing" and adding back tees, moving bunkers, etc. However, I don't want to see the need for that either. And it is not confined to the pros unfortunately. Just about any half-way athletic person with a basic understanding of angle of attack can hit the ball a long way. Where the ball goes is the rub.

 

I hope this is not the future.

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I agree with most of your points, but please don't use the new Pfau Course at IU as your example of what is wrong with golf. While the scorecard for the Tournament Tees is 7900, it will never be played that way unless they get some kind of Professional event. For college tournaments, it will likely be set up in the 7200-7400 for college tournaments. What they were able to build in to that course was variability.

Please see this interview that I did with the course architect on Saturday.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhju9Hhpcpg&t=4s

 

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I do agree to some level, but I will say, is making a golf course that long a "necessity"? Not really.

 

I played in a state am many years ago and the course from the tips was over 7,500 (where the match play took place) and it didn't play nearly that long because the fairways were super wide and had a ton of roll out on them, probably played closer to 7,000. And a lot of that was 2 600+ par 5's and 3 par 3's over 220. There was maybe 1-2 hard par 4's due to the yardage (for me, a very avg length hitter). They play it at 7,000 with much tigher/slower fairways it becomes a much harder course.

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Being older and having learned the game playing Balata and Professional 100, some of us can tell more than others.

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Topping today’s list of Things I Wish I Wrote.Now this is mostly agreeable, with one disagreement.

They aren’t exactly two ways to achieve the same thing; as you say, changing the golf courses is absurdly expensive. It also obliterates the historical integrity of irreplaceable golf course architecture.

Meanwhile, changing golf ball specs is, for 99% of the golfing world, cheap and easy and almost inconsequential.

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I was wondering when one of these would pop up. I was firmly against a ball roll back and largely still am. I will add this piece though. I am wondering if Bryson will turn into a Roger Bannister. He has broken a barrier and now the door is open for more to do so. Will it create a distance arms race with no end with others seeing it can be done.

I don't really know the answer, and part of me thinks that Bryson is going to explode literally with injury or health before he really dominates. But, I think if the game turns into an arms race, It is really not that enjoyable. It was 100% fun this last weekend watching the freak show that was Bryson. But if everyone was that way... No thanks.

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Instagram post by @golftv • May 16, 2020 at 9:40am UTCModern player could absolutely figure out how to hit anything on a stick but as far as distance goes it’s always been the equipment dictating how hard you can swing and hit your target.

Some courses where I live are twice as busy than they were before the rona we’ll see what happens after the unemployment $ gets cut. Now more than I ever I don’t see usga doing anything to drive people away.

 

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