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Are you a chicken? Course Management Talk


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I've always been comfortable going conservative off the tee. The stats would say that's probably the wrong way to do it, but I do have a hook in the bag with driver, so I'm always factoring that in.

Filmed an interesting par 4 hole at my course where I hit iron off the tee. Curious to see how others would play this. If I could hit driver straight I'm sure I'd become more aggressive.

Driver, 3W, 4W - Macgregor Custom Tourney
2-10 - 1954 Spalding Synchro Dyned
SW - Wilson Staff
Putter - Bullseye
Ball - Pro Plus

YT Channel - [url="https://www.youtube.com/PlayVintageGolf"]https://www.youtube....PlayVintageGolf[/url]

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@Fellaheen51 That hole looks amazing. For the comments on my son, I also find his questions hilarious. He got a kick out of seeing me hit one into a road at another course (obviously OB) and I think

250 to the trees, and about 290 to get past them?

If I had my persimmon bag, I'd play it rather like you, baloo, except my tee club would probably be a 5w rather than a 2i.

With my modern set, it would be a hybrid lay-up, or maybe a 7w lay-up (which, if I go too far right, might mean getting blocked out by the trees for my second shot). I'd have to be feeling very confident with the driver to use it on that hole, especially as I think the risk outweighs the reward. Go left, I'm OB; go right, I'm hitting out of trees. Hit straight and I'll still be about 100~80 yards out.

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Correct, hole 4. There's room enough there if you're a good driver. If you hit any hooks like I will occasionally do, the OB left is a bit too close for comfort.

Driver, 3W, 4W - Macgregor Custom Tourney
2-10 - 1954 Spalding Synchro Dyned
SW - Wilson Staff
Putter - Bullseye
Ball - Pro Plus

YT Channel - [url="https://www.youtube.com/PlayVintageGolf"]https://www.youtube....PlayVintageGolf[/url]

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First off excellent all the way around. Great presentation and I like all the sticks too. Yep I would have played it exactly like you did with the 2 iron . Even with my somewhat modern bag with metal woods and hybrids I would use the same play

Driver--- Honma G1-X Stock Regular shaft

3W Callaway Steel Head UST 65 Pro Force Gold Stiff

2I-- 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R steel shaft

Irons 4 thru PW 1980 Mac Vip Hogan Apex #2 shafts

SW Cleveland 588 56* S- 400 Sensicore

Putter Old Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye fluted shaft

Bag Old Ping Hoofer I had in my stash

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Nice video! Good to see you out there with your son.

I think your strategy was the perfect way to play that hole. How close would you have to be to hit a wedge in there? Considering your earlier issue with vintage wedges, that makes 2 risk variables to consider.

I'd be interested to see how far the trees are from the forward tees. I'd most likely hit 2w from the tee down the left side, since my miss is right as you know.

But hey, you hit the green in regulation and 2 putted for par. Nice hole. I'm sure there are better birdie opportunities for you on that course. Good course management!

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My home course has a lot of holes that have tee shots not too dissimilar to what you are seeing. The front nine is such that you can hit driver on every par 4 or par 5, with the exception of possibly #2, a dogleg left at only 335 yds with trees you can run into if you go down the fairway and thru the dogleg. I have largely switched to hybrid or long iron on this hole due to thag.

It's the back nine where this sort of choice really comes into play. Tighter, more trouble in play on more holes. I really only hit driver from one to three times on this back nine, due to that, the one certain driver tee shot being on a short straightaway par 4; the lone par 5 on the back is usually a long iron or hybrid tee shot.

This back nine course rating is a shot higher than the front nine, in spite of it being par 35 to the front's par 36. It also has a higher slope rating.

Since switching to the more chicken method, my scores on the back nine are not infrequently lower than the front nine. Not all that close in many cases.

The TLDR version: I would play it just as you did. I'd call it "smart" though.

I loved hearing your son ask after each shot if you went out of bounds.

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft pending); 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, DGS400; Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Ram Watson Scoring System 55*, DGX 7i shaft; Ram TG-898, DGS400; Ram TG-898, NV105 S; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS300; Ram 1982 Commemorative Nickel 58*, Dynamic S; Ram TW282, DGS; Ram TW276, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 58*, Dynamic S; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, DGS400; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, NV105 S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional or TaylorMade TP5

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Well done video @baloo. Interesting course management thought process. Got a chuckle when Junior asked at the 2.42 mark: "You outta bounds?" He must have a reference point to ask the question. Ha.
As for strategizing. Not much required on my part. With 250 yards to the trees, hit the driver. Not going to come close to them. That's my golfing life these days. Playing from a forward tee which is the norm, placing the trees in the middle ~200 yards out, would tee with the 4 metal. My 180 yard club. Extrapolating the yardage to a similar landing spot that you hit your 2 iron. So not to be obstructed by the trees on a shot into the green.
This is one of the more challenging driving holes I play. Par 5, 485 yards downhill, elevated tee. Lost ball left the entire length of the hole. The drive contends with the trees right. But one can sometimes find it, leaving only a punch out shot at best. Just have to try and steer one down the fairway with no fear. Better course management strategizing would be to hit a 6 iron 3x. But I'm not always smart when it comes to playing golf. No risk, no reward. Or something like that. Banged around in the trees right after this snapshot. Attempting a "Seve'esque " shot following only exacerbated my predicament. Trees become like magnets to a golf ball.
[img]https://s3.amazonaws.com/golfwrxforums/uploads/DO0E9CH4QYXC/unadjustednonraw-thumb-1a3c.jpg[/img]

Laissez les bons temps rouler!

OGA - Mitglied Nummer Sechs

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@baloo I think you're doing it right, especially if you're comfortable with it. You're playing the hole the way that feels best to you, and any time you can have 144 yards in while eliminating trouble you're doing things right. If it were anything over 170 or so I'd say maybe you've got to reconsider. For me, I'd play this hole based entirely on how I'm feeling and swinging that day. I play a draw so I'd be pretty comfortable aiming at the edge or middle of the trees and bringing it in; however if I'm having a day where the driver is off I'm definitely taking a hybrid or long iron and letting a short iron take it the rest of the way.
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@Fellaheen51 That hole looks amazing.
For the comments on my son, I also find his questions hilarious. He got a kick out of seeing me hit one into a road at another course (obviously OB) and I think just secretly wants me to do things like that again. After that incident, he talked about it for weeks LOL.
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Driver, 3W, 4W - Macgregor Custom Tourney
2-10 - 1954 Spalding Synchro Dyned
SW - Wilson Staff
Putter - Bullseye
Ball - Pro Plus

YT Channel - [url="https://www.youtube.com/PlayVintageGolf"]https://www.youtube....PlayVintageGolf[/url]

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Modern clubs:

Driver either starting at the trees and drawing it to the gap or firing straight at the gap. But I would say that because modern brick on a stick driver is one of my best clubs. If I discovered driver wasn't working or I was putting it in the trees too much, then I'd go to 3 or 5w, same concept as that 2 iron.

Vintage clubs:

It won't be pretty, it never is.

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First of all, nice move. Much to like in that swing there. The fact that you can fly that 1953 Spalding 8 iron pin high is impressive too. In that era an 8 iron would measure around 44 degrees, so you’ve got some good club head speed as well.

As for me, I typically hit driver when almost no one else does. It’s my best club, modern, persimmon or hickory. So at 63 I’m not as long as I used to be (who is) but I can get it out there 240ish with my Cobra modern driver. I usually hit a little draw so I’d aim at the left edges of the trees and fire away. My absolute best bomb these days is 250 so I don’t think I would risk going into the trees, so the only downside would be cutting it too much and possibly being blocked at a straightforward shot into the green. Since my ball usually draws that’s a low risk.

I’ve been reading Mark Broadie’s Every Shot Counts, which is a real eye opener. I recommend his book (and lecture on YouTube) if you’re interested in scoring. I won’t get into the weeds with his work because there is a ton of stats and it just too much for a post, but for this discussion his mantra is the farther you can hit it without going OB or unplayable the better. Statistically 100 yards away in the rough is better than 125 in the fairway. Obviously all this revolves around how comfortable you are “letting the big dog eat” so to speak. I am very comfortable with driver, so there you go. Broadie would say if your miss is a pull hook, then on this hole hit the longest club you’re comfortable hitting, in your case, long iron.

Great video, I really enjoyed watching it. It’s really funny that your kid is actively rooting for you to hit it out. When my daughter was his age she always wanted me to hit it in the “sandbox”. She would run in there ahead of me every time I went into a bunker. “Honey, you don’t understand, Dad isn’t supposed to be in here.” Fun times.

 

Current bag:
Cobra Lv5 driver 10.5
Fairway wood (I’m open to suggestions)
Sonatec 20 deg. hybrid
Nickent 24 degree hybrid
Component irons 6-9
Taylormade ICW PW 49
Taylormade ICW SW 55
Odyssey blade putter




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It depends on how well I'm hitting driver on this day and by hole #a4 I should know.

If not driver; 5 iron, 6 iron tee to green with current set.

3 iron, 5 iron with vintage.

JBeam Bullet 10*                           Fujikura Ventus Black 6X

Exotics CBX119 15* 3WD.             Fujikura Ventus Red 8X

Exotics CBX119 18* 5WD              Accra Tour Z RPG 382 M5

Exotics CB2 21* 7WD                    Fujikura Ventus Red 9X
MIURA CB57 5-7                            MCI MMT-125TX

MIURA MB-001 8-P                       MCI MMT-125TX
Chikara V1 Proto 52, 57, 61           MCI MMT-125TX (8-iron)

Cameron 009 Prototype 1.5 Beach 34/350 (A010656)

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Risk/Reward is what needs to be thought of here. With OB on the left that is a definite no. The thought would be eliminate the left side shot at all cost. Fighting a hook with a driver definitely brings OB into play and 2 shots lost isn't worth it on a short par 4. That said, if you are an incredible wedge player and can dial a shot into almost gimmie birdie range then a driver on this hole might be worth a risk. I would only consider this tactic if my wedge game is much better than my short iron play. A 2 iron layup leaves a short iron, a scoring iron, so that means par is the probability and birdie a possibility. I think you played the hole well. I would have played the same way.

Driver:  TaylorMade M3 440cc 9.5° (tour issue 9.9), Graphite Design Tour AD DI 6S   ||  3W:  TaylorMade M4 15° (small head), Graphite Design Tour AD DI 7S

Hybrid:  TaylorMade SLDR 2I Hybrid at 17°, Graphite Design Tour AD DI 8S  ||  Irons:  Ben Hogan Icon 4-PW, Nippon Modus3 Tour 120 stiff

Wedges:  Scratch Golf 1018 forged: 50°, 54°, 58°, Nippon Modus3 Tour 120 stiff ||  Putter: Byron Morgan custom Epic Day

Ball: Taylormade Tour Preferred (2016 ball)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

 

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My Spaldings are 21* 2 Iron with 4 degree gaps up to a 53* PW. So the 8 Iron is 45*. I can't remember what I have the Dynamiter (SW) at.

Driver, 3W, 4W - Macgregor Custom Tourney
2-10 - 1954 Spalding Synchro Dyned
SW - Wilson Staff
Putter - Bullseye
Ball - Pro Plus

YT Channel - [url="https://www.youtube.com/PlayVintageGolf"]https://www.youtube....PlayVintageGolf[/url]

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Yep you and I are the same age and same distances

Driver--- Honma G1-X Stock Regular shaft

3W Callaway Steel Head UST 65 Pro Force Gold Stiff

2I-- 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R steel shaft

Irons 4 thru PW 1980 Mac Vip Hogan Apex #2 shafts

SW Cleveland 588 56* S- 400 Sensicore

Putter Old Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye fluted shaft

Bag Old Ping Hoofer I had in my stash

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That is one tight hole. For me more than likely the 2 iron off the tee with my baby cut. Then more than likely 4 hybrid and then 8 or 9 iron according to the yardage you stated. Now to be truthful if I was playing vintage golf I would more than likely hit the driver because now days I am pretty straight with the real lumber. Not long but straight. More than likely 4 or 5 iron for my second especially if playing my FC-4000s because I hit those 4 and 5 irons so well. 3rd shot with those clubs 7 or 8 iron in.

Driver--- Honma G1-X Stock Regular shaft

3W Callaway Steel Head UST 65 Pro Force Gold Stiff

2I-- 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R steel shaft

Irons 4 thru PW 1980 Mac Vip Hogan Apex #2 shafts

SW Cleveland 588 56* S- 400 Sensicore

Putter Old Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye fluted shaft

Bag Old Ping Hoofer I had in my stash

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My 65 Wilson Staff Dyna-Power are the exact same specs. My everyday play irons, don't know why but I hit these better than anything blade or CB, new or old.

2i  21*  38.5"  57*

3i  24    38      58

4i  27  37.5    59

5i  31    37  60

6i  35  36.5    61

7i  39  36.25  62

8i  43  35.75  63

9i  47  35.25  63

P  51  35.25  64

S  55  35.25  64

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Exactly. I could hit a good driver and have a 3/4 60' (2 out of every five and that's not really my strength), the other three I am probably chipping out from the right trees) or I could hit three iron (210-240 depending on wind, conditions) and have a mid-iron. Out of bounds holes don't really faze me, unless it's down both sides.

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