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Desperate for Iron Guidance


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I’ve been playing more golf recently and wanted to upgrade my irons from the 1985 TaylorMade Tour Preferred Blades I’m playing. I’m currently a bogey golfer and am going to the range twice a week on top of playing a round once a week. I’m not a consistent striker of the ball and when I miss it’s always right. I do slice and even shank.

I did so much research and ultimately found myself at Club Champion for a fitting. I’m not sure if this was a waste of money, but I was given some data which hopefully makes that $150 worth it. Here was the data I was given from my 6 iron.

Almost immediately I was put into a Nippon N.S. Pro 1150 GH Tour Extra Stiff shaft.

My clubs Average - Club Speed 90.8 - Smash 1.16 - Ball Speed 105.1 - Spin 6776 - Launch Angle 23.7 - Carry 140.5 - Total 146 - Height 95 - Attack Angle -2.2

Callaway Mavrik - Club Speed 84 - Smash 1.30 - Ball Speed 109.3 - Spin 5142 - Launch Angle 20.3 - Carry 156.2 - Total 166.2 - Height 87 - Attack Angle -1.3

TaylorMade Sim - Club Speed 86.5 - Smash 1.27 - Ball Speed 109.5 - Spin 4635 - Launch Angle 21.5 - Carry 158.7 - Total 168.9 - Height 93 - Attack Angle -1.1

Then the session ended and I was left with the advice to get the Callaway Mavrik...for $1700. The thing about it is the dispersion on the Mavrik was terrible and I hit 15 balls vs the dispersion on the Sim which was much tighter but only hit 4 balls.

Since this fitting I’ve tried a ton of other clubs at Dicks Sporting Goods and Edwin Watts Golf, but still don’t feel I know how to make a decision.

I’m just not sure what to do, but I can certainly says a custom set of clubs for $1700 is not happening.

Any advice would be appreciated!

 

 

 

 

 

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Were you able to get anything about the length and lie of the clubs? Seems like that and the shaft weight are the only things you can take from that fitting. If I were you I'd find some Game Improvement irons from a couple of cycles ago (maybe Ping G400) that are used and save some money.

G410 LST 10.5* Ventus Black 6x
TSi2 15* Fujikura Rombax P95x
TSi2 21* Fujikura Rombax P95x

T100S 4-PW Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100

Vokey SM8 48-10 F Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100

Vokey SM8 56-08 M Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S400

Vokey SM8 60-08 M Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S400

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Thanks for the response!

I was able to get length and lie. Swing weight was D7.

4 - 39 and 60

5- 38.5 and 60.5

6 - 38 and 61

7 - 37.5 and 61.5

8 - 37 and 62

9 - 36.5 and 62.5

PW - 36 and 63

I’m 6’5, but he said the way I swing means I don’t require any added length. However when I go into local golf shop they all immediately try to add length.

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Have you considered doing a brand-specific fitting at a store? E.g. Mizuno fitting cart?

There are some retailers that offer an 'advanced' iron fitting that pulls from fitting carts of different retailers. Advantage is that you get to pick from stock (or minimal upcharge) options.

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I would definitely put the brakes on making any immediate purchases. You need to figure out the basics first which will entail figuring out length & lie. That goes without saying. Picking a product/brand is really the last step.

But more importantly, are you just coming back to golf? Have you been a steady player for many years? Are you working with an instructor right now? You probably want to try and make the equipment purchase more towards the end of the journey if you're making swing changes. If that's the case, you might just want to wait a little (maybe get a cheaper used set of something more modern) and then take the full-plunge at the end?

You could grab a nice set of AP2 irons for $350 somewhere and at least know that whatever you went to after that wouldn't be far off.

SIM Dr (10.5o) (Tensei Pro Orange 60TX)
SIM 3w (17o) (Tensei Pro White 60TX)

M6 7w (21o) (Diamana Blue 70S)

z785 (4-Pw) (Modus3 Tour120)
SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
Newport 2 Select

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Thanks for the response!

I’ve been playing off and on since I was 14, 36 now. Each time I think about new clubs I just end up adjusting the shaft and grip on my old clubs. Done that twice now and honestly it didn’t improve anything.

I’m not seeing an instructor, and the swing changes I’m trying to make are mostly contact point, as I tend to be a heel striker.

If I know the ideal shaft, or at least fitters ideal shaft for me, is it stupid to use any other shaft? And if I’m looking for a specific shaft, does that rule out older models, because that’s the way I’d like to go.

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Please take lessons.

10.5 deg Titleist 905R with stock UST Proforce V2 Shaft (Stiff flex)
Titleist 990 (3-PW) with stock Dynamic Gold in S300
Taylormade V-Steel 5W & 3W with Grafalloy Prolaunch Red shafts (Regular Flex)
2011 Adams Tom Watson signature wedges in 52 and 56 degrees with stock steel shafts (Player's Grind)
Rife Island Series Aruba Blade Putter

 

"Loft for loft, length for length, and shaft for shaft, the ball will go the same distance when hit on the sweet spot regardless how old the iron."

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You say you're a bogey golfer right now - so you shoot about 90. But you're "playing more recently". What does that mean ? What were you "before" ?
Anywho, @MelloYello is right as usual. Cheap irons if necessary although given your height you'll likely need some adjustments to most sets. But lessons first.
Now to your "specs". Wowza.
While there are no standards for "standard" loft, length and lie, a tall guy such as yourself typically needs a bit more length.
Length - The one thing that most can (almost LOL) agree on is the standard length of the 5 iron. And usually in 1/2" increments from the for the next iron up or down - until the short ones anyway. Most 5 irons are right at 38". You may find some models at 1/4 shorter or longer but most are right at 38". That puts your 5 iron above as 1/2" over. Probably OK.
Lie angle - "nobody" agrees on "standard". In point of fact, given the clubs you mentioned (Mavrik & SIM even though you don't specify which model), ALL have their standard lie angles more upright than what you list. Tall players typically need more upright lie angles. The list you give above are all FLATTER than the standard lie of ANY Mav or SIM iron you mentioned.
Loft - again, lofts are all over the place. Your old 7 iron is probably ~36*. The Mav 7 iron is 27*. BOOM. No surprise there's more ball speed now, is there ?
And it seems like they're always trying to mess with your mind as well. e.g. Mav MAX, the "MAX" designation USUALLY meaning less loft and more forgiving is actually WEAKER lofted than the regular Mav whereas the SIM MAX and SIM MAX OS are "correct". The OS is a larger, presumably a bit more forgiving bu STRONGER lofted than the regular SIM MAX.
Net-net you have to compare apples with apples. Forgetting for the moment the SIM is 2 different models as is the MAV, neither of them is anything like your old sticks.
All that said I have to wonder how you can swing your OLD 6 iron from 4-7 MPH faster than the others - but that's another story.
I wonder what they specs are for your old sticks - it'd be interesting. Were you ever "fit" for them ?

Callaway Epic Flash SZ Hzrdus Yellow HC 6.0 Stiff

Ping G400 hybrids 17*, 19*, 70 gr Stock Stiff

Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, 52, 60, DGS300

Cally PM Grind 56 KBS Tour 115

Odyssey V-Line (Today)

Titleist ProV1 (Yellow)

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@nsxguy my first thought and question I asked during my fitting. Why the difference in swing speed? The answer I received was basically my comfort with the club. I was not fit for these clubs. They were handed down from my dad. I did add new shafts and then added length to them and oversize grips.
About 10 years ago I would shoot consistently between 80-84. Never break into the 70s though, which is a goal. Obviously course makes a difference.
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Unpopular opinion here.

I feel for you on the contradicting advice. It's so hard to tell when someone is the correct but singular opinion vs the incorrect and singular opinion, e.g. regarding the shaft length. And then when you recognize that in the end people are running a business and there might be an extra commission or sales contest among the store's employees to move as much Callaway this week as possible, then it all goes out the window.

Here's where my unpopular opinion comes in, if you're getting conflicting and questionable guidance, why not trust yourself the most? I think you liking the way you swing a club, how it feels, and how it looks to you will motivate you enough to make them work - especially when your starting point is a 15 year old set of irons. We're not talking about matching the exact right rubber compound on your tires for an F1 event in order to find the extra .002 seconds of performance. We're talking about what sticks you're going to use this weekend.

So let's say that after hearing all this input from sales reps, you remember that you really liked the feel and look of a certain set of Titleist or Mizuno, why not go with those instead of believing the last guy you talked to who said you're 3 yards longer and 1.8 mph faster with some clubs you aren't even that excited about? And then he says he's going to lengthen them all by an inch before shipping them to you... Why not just get the ones you like instead? And from a cost perspective, I bet you can get a set of 2018/2019 irons, brand new, for about a third of the price as ones you got fitted for.

Maybe they won't be perfect (but I've already cast all kinds of doubt on that in the first place), but I bet whatever you choose will be leagues ahead of your 1985 irons.

Driver: TaylorMade SIM Max

Wood: TaylorMade M6

Hybrid: Taylormade M3

Irons: Titleist 718 AP1

Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM7

Putter: TaylorMade Ardmore 2 Black Copper

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Hand me downs. Thought so.

Given your size most likely places you in a clearly NON-standard position, no matter what, you should get fitted.

IMO you can get a reasonably close fit from a golf store for pretty much zero cost. The PGATSS near me has a fitting session for about $50 without a purchase. Not sure if they'd credit you the $50 if you bought a set though but whatever.

But it really depends on your goals in golf. If you used to shoot 80-84 that's not bad at all. If you really want to be a "player" you should definitely take lessons and learn how to swing the club and then you can get fitted (again).

If you just want to enjoy the day, have fun wit da boyz, make a birdie or 2 and shoot around 80 you'll probably figure out how to do it (again) so a basic store fitting should be "good enough".

I gotta tell you though I am surprised for your $150 that CC didn't (seem to) do a better job and tell you all the things that I noticed pretty quickly. They have to be more informed than I. Given the impression you're giving us of the results they gave you I'd call that disappointing.

Good luck.

Callaway Epic Flash SZ Hzrdus Yellow HC 6.0 Stiff

Ping G400 hybrids 17*, 19*, 70 gr Stock Stiff

Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, 52, 60, DGS300

Cally PM Grind 56 KBS Tour 115

Odyssey V-Line (Today)

Titleist ProV1 (Yellow)

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@KFW8 I would look at buying components from Golfworks, Hireko or Monark golf and building a few partial sets which should only be no more than $150.
Then you can take your time playing them knowing you have little money invested.
I got some Acer Tour blade irons which to me are some of the finest looking blade like clubs I have ever looked at, including all the big names. They are also a soft cast which feels very close to a forging. They also have models with a little more offset at $11 a head. Shafts run $5-12 for steel.
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IMO /

You’re in a typical catch-22 situation.

A set of retail Callaway Mavrik 4-AW is $900. The additional $800 that CC is asking should result in a higher degree of assembly quality and club matching to your specific requirements. However, the actual degree of performance advantage may or may not be discerned by a highly skilled player. For you, any potential advantages will most likely be both unfelt and inconsequential. Additionally, the fitting results you have in hand are questionable at best in several regards.

Practice with clubs that are grossly inappropriate for your physical attributes (which is apparently what you currently have), is an excellent way of in graining poor swing mechanics, since you have to make accommodations to hit the ball all.

If I were you, I’d find an instructor who doesn’t work for a golf shop who also performs fittings and can order a range of equipment. They will be in a far better position than you to understand your swings mechanics and equipment needs.

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I hit my 6I further than that and I play regular shafts, and hit them very straight typically. I know speed isn’t everything, but putting someone who slices into an extra stiff seems like lunacy to me. I have/have had a few stiff clubs and to my mind I’m kind of on the cusp of either, but I wouldn’t dream of trying to play X.

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DUDE

get a slightly used set of something on line for 500

plus 1”

I went from the irons you had back in the day to Ping i3 osize

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Ping G400 LST 11* Project X 6A4 7.0

Ping G400 3w 15* Oban Kiyoshi Purple 55x

Ping G400 7w 19.5* Blueboard FB Ion 73x

Cally Apex '16 4h 23* Fubuki ax500h x

TMade SIM dhy 5DI 25* Kuro Kage 100x

Srixon ZX7  6 - PW PX Catalyst 100 6.5x
Ping Glide OG 49*, 54*, 59*, 64* SF 125s

Piretti Matera Elite torched
 

 

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I’m glad you said this because this was exactly my thought. I also don’t know a ton about shafts . The thing is, the dispersion on the Max Sim with that shaft was tighter, but I only hit 4 balls. The one that was eventually recommended to me, the Mavrik, the dispersion was huge, 20 yards left and 20 yards right but I hit 15 balls. I didn’t realize the dispersion until I got the report from Trackman when I got home.

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You could easily get a players cavity back iron used for a lot less...

Maybe even go and get a set of Taylormade MC heads from 2011/2012...(or any of the players cavity backs that you see in the numerous threads here).

They should be more forgiving than the blades for off-center hits.

use the same shafts and grips that you have now.

You'd be able to get this sorted for under $400...

Take lessons and ask your pro for some fitting advice.

 

TM SIM 10.5* - Ventus Velocore Blue 6S
TEE  CBX119  2h  17* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS 
TEE  XCG7B  4h  22* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS
TEE  XCG7B  5h  25* Diamana Thump i465ct 4iron shaft
Wishon 560MC 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43.5,48) DG120 S300
Vokey SM4 52-08F S200
Wishon HM wedges 56/60 Wishon Smooth steel Stiff
2013-2016 SC Futura X5R 33' flownecked by Bastain-cerakote sniper gray-silver dots-white flange sight line-SS Flatso 2.0

2012-2013 SC California Sonoma 33" -SS Flatso 2.0
TM TP5x

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Do you know you wrist to floor measurement?

Good starting point for length discussion

THose lie angle seem to be in the area of 1 degree flat?

TM SIM 10.5* - Ventus Velocore Blue 6S
TEE  CBX119  2h  17* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS 
TEE  XCG7B  4h  22* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS
TEE  XCG7B  5h  25* Diamana Thump i465ct 4iron shaft
Wishon 560MC 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43.5,48) DG120 S300
Vokey SM4 52-08F S200
Wishon HM wedges 56/60 Wishon Smooth steel Stiff
2013-2016 SC Futura X5R 33' flownecked by Bastain-cerakote sniper gray-silver dots-white flange sight line-SS Flatso 2.0

2012-2013 SC California Sonoma 33" -SS Flatso 2.0
TM TP5x

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funny how they put you in distance irons coming from blades...

maybe a larger headed players/game improvement cavity back...

My experience:

Maxfli Revolution Blacks

WIshon 560mc's (these will be harder to get, probably don't go there).

The Taylormades I mentioned.

Other low-offset, larger headed cavity-backs would be good, I think.

Also, trying a regular/stiff shaft in the 105-110 range should be advisable

You see a lot of people being put into the Nippon Modus 105 or kbs c-taper lite/$-taper lite/or Dynamic Gold 105 shafts.

I'm guessing your old TM Tour Preferred blades probably had Dynamic Gold stiffs in them, constant weight tapers at 130 g.

TM SIM 10.5* - Ventus Velocore Blue 6S
TEE  CBX119  2h  17* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS 
TEE  XCG7B  4h  22* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS
TEE  XCG7B  5h  25* Diamana Thump i465ct 4iron shaft
Wishon 560MC 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43.5,48) DG120 S300
Vokey SM4 52-08F S200
Wishon HM wedges 56/60 Wishon Smooth steel Stiff
2013-2016 SC Futura X5R 33' flownecked by Bastain-cerakote sniper gray-silver dots-white flange sight line-SS Flatso 2.0

2012-2013 SC California Sonoma 33" -SS Flatso 2.0
TM TP5x

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which TM blades do you have?

TM SIM 10.5* - Ventus Velocore Blue 6S
TEE  CBX119  2h  17* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS 
TEE  XCG7B  4h  22* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS
TEE  XCG7B  5h  25* Diamana Thump i465ct 4iron shaft
Wishon 560MC 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43.5,48) DG120 S300
Vokey SM4 52-08F S200
Wishon HM wedges 56/60 Wishon Smooth steel Stiff
2013-2016 SC Futura X5R 33' flownecked by Bastain-cerakote sniper gray-silver dots-white flange sight line-SS Flatso 2.0

2012-2013 SC California Sonoma 33" -SS Flatso 2.0
TM TP5x

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and do you know what shafts you installed in your gamers?

TM SIM 10.5* - Ventus Velocore Blue 6S
TEE  CBX119  2h  17* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS 
TEE  XCG7B  4h  22* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS
TEE  XCG7B  5h  25* Diamana Thump i465ct 4iron shaft
Wishon 560MC 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43.5,48) DG120 S300
Vokey SM4 52-08F S200
Wishon HM wedges 56/60 Wishon Smooth steel Stiff
2013-2016 SC Futura X5R 33' flownecked by Bastain-cerakote sniper gray-silver dots-white flange sight line-SS Flatso 2.0

2012-2013 SC California Sonoma 33" -SS Flatso 2.0
TM TP5x

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Like mentioned above, I’d find an instructor who’s unbiased with equipment, also has access to various brands and go for another fitting. Explain to the fitter your situation and experience at CC. Personally, I’m not impressed with the work I’ve witnessed from them. $1700 is totally off the chart for as set of Mavrik irons as well. Best of luck!!

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I agree with this. Maybe short-term use the Ping guide and look for a second hand set of G or G400 to try out in the correct coloured dot. Go for some lessons with them and see how you get on. Then, once you’ve settled, look for a proper fitting for some new clubs backed up with some reality and knowledge. You should be able to sell on the clubs at minimal loss in a few months.

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Thanks for all the replies, this is helping a ton.

Wrist to floor is 38 inches.

These are images of the blades I’m playing now. No idea as to the new shafts they put in them but they were lengthened. I know they’ve seen better days.

There is a set of Ping I25s on this site for sale that are 3/4 added and are silver dot, would this be a decent set for me to use?

e125cc41-bf04-41cd-b448-886dc77afd05.jpeg

21cc0efc-65a0-4b9d-a32a-2846dd2ba221.jpeg

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From WIshon

Ht WTF Initial Lie Length 7i Length

6'3 38" 3 0.5 37.5

6'4 38" 3 1 38

6'5 38" 3 1 38

6'6 38" 2 1.5 38.5

6'7 38" 2 1.5 38.5

 

It's best to have another person measure your Wrist to Floor as it's easy to be off over an inch when you do it yourself.

The above says if you are 6'5" and WTF of 38", then go 3* upright (wow), and you should be at +1" (5 iron at 39", 7 iron at 38")

 

 

 

TM SIM 10.5* - Ventus Velocore Blue 6S
TEE  CBX119  2h  17* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS 
TEE  XCG7B  4h  22* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS
TEE  XCG7B  5h  25* Diamana Thump i465ct 4iron shaft
Wishon 560MC 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43.5,48) DG120 S300
Vokey SM4 52-08F S200
Wishon HM wedges 56/60 Wishon Smooth steel Stiff
2013-2016 SC Futura X5R 33' flownecked by Bastain-cerakote sniper gray-silver dots-white flange sight line-SS Flatso 2.0

2012-2013 SC California Sonoma 33" -SS Flatso 2.0
TM TP5x

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silver is 4* upright, so it's pretty close (white is 3*)

3/4" is pretty close to 1".

What shafts are in the Pings?

 

TM SIM 10.5* - Ventus Velocore Blue 6S
TEE  CBX119  2h  17* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS 
TEE  XCG7B  4h  22* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS
TEE  XCG7B  5h  25* Diamana Thump i465ct 4iron shaft
Wishon 560MC 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43.5,48) DG120 S300
Vokey SM4 52-08F S200
Wishon HM wedges 56/60 Wishon Smooth steel Stiff
2013-2016 SC Futura X5R 33' flownecked by Bastain-cerakote sniper gray-silver dots-white flange sight line-SS Flatso 2.0

2012-2013 SC California Sonoma 33" -SS Flatso 2.0
TM TP5x

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Those sounds like they could be a go (shafts may be a bit heavy at 120g, but not terrible).

I'm guessing Pings can be bent for lie angle with the notch in the hosel?

TM SIM 10.5* - Ventus Velocore Blue 6S
TEE  CBX119  2h  17* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS 
TEE  XCG7B  4h  22* Aldila Rogue Black 85TS
TEE  XCG7B  5h  25* Diamana Thump i465ct 4iron shaft
Wishon 560MC 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43.5,48) DG120 S300
Vokey SM4 52-08F S200
Wishon HM wedges 56/60 Wishon Smooth steel Stiff
2013-2016 SC Futura X5R 33' flownecked by Bastain-cerakote sniper gray-silver dots-white flange sight line-SS Flatso 2.0

2012-2013 SC California Sonoma 33" -SS Flatso 2.0
TM TP5x

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      That's it! @labgolf and GolfWRX will choose the testers in about 2 weeks! This testing event is for good-standing members in the USA only!
       
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      • 435 replies
    • 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
      2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Tuesday #1
      2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Tuesday #2
       
       
      Adam Scott - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Justin Rose - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
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      Gary Woodland's new Cameron putter - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
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      • 6 replies
    • 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open WITB Photos- Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here...
       
      Links:
       
      Harry Higgs - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Ian Poulter - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Harry Higgs - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Matt NeSmith - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Doug Ghim - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      New Cameron Las Vegas covers - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      New Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX shafts - 2021 Shriners Hospitals doe Children Open
       
       

       
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