Please convince me!!

[Ping_Enthusiast]

Hi all,

I have been playing with Persimmon woods since I started playing again (7 year hiatus) and have really loved the sound, feel and control they give me. My wife,however, remembers my competitive golf days and is on my case to play in tournaments again. This, of course, requires me to get a decent handicap again. Can I play competitively in this day and age with Persimmon woods? There is no doubt that titanium woods hit it further but maybe a bit more wayward as a result. What’s your opinion?

[Richard 77]

The game is still how many not how far. Play the persimmons if YOU feel better with them. IMHO.

[disco111]

As Richard 77 said, it's how many..................So if your comfortable with spotting the field strokes by playing persimmon (New equipment is more forgiving and in most cases goes further), then by all means, play on and best of luck.

[Old Tom Morris]

Giving up a lot of distance by playing persimmon woods.

Multilayer balls won't spin enough with persimmon woods either, so that's another reason to update your driver and woods.

[Gsea]

 

 

[thepunch_out]

To be fair, I can't speak to tournament golf as the most competitive rounds I'll play are usually Tuesday night league. What I can say however, is that the game becomes far more rewarding and just flat out more fun when I play with persimmon, and that's all the convincing I need. I usually play twice per week and I don't think I've played a round all year without at least one persimmon in the bag, but the reality is, some courses I play are just too long for me not to carry a modern driver or 3-wood. At the end of the day, I love golf because the competition is elastic from round to round. Some days I'm serious, and other days I just want to walk a twilight round with a beer in my hand and nothing in the bag but persimmon and blades. I guess my point is, don't box yourself into only one style of play, especially if you're just getting back into the game and enjoying your current set-up. Play what makes you want to play the most.

[NRJyzr]

There's no across the board answer, I'm afraid. It will ultimately be driven by your consistency and tee game quality with wood clubs, compared to modern.

You will be a bit shorter with the lumber, however how much depends a lot on your swing and game, with a nod towards spin production. Much of the distance loss for many is due to the shaft length of modern sticks, as compared to persimmons and laminates. Shaft weight can come into play, as well. If you play persimmon a bit longer in club length, you'll find much of that distance loss is returned.

Or, if you're lucky and you don't lose swingspeed dropping to the shorter club, you're really in business. At that point, it's all about your launch conditions.

If you're a higher spin and/or higher trajectory player, you may find yourself not losing distance due to the lower spin modern premium golfballs. I used to (and may still somewhat) fit in this category, when I tested persimmon vs Fast 12 LS, both with solid core and balata, I found little difference between all of them. Good hits went the same distance. Bad hits, of course, were shorter with the wood clubs.

You can mitigate launch by using something like Ping red dot laminates, or persimmon 2 woods, not unlike times of yore.

All of the above can be refitted with graphite shafts to suit your game, with a slightly longer length than steel.

All that said, it's still true that my longest drive of 2016-2020, not aided by cart path, is with a Ping Zing Blonde laminate, with KT-M shaft.

here endeth my blather

[BIG STU]

Yep you basically summed it up for me. I do not play comp or big money matches any more so I play what I want to when I want to. Of course my front line irons are 1980 Macgregors and I will play them with modern woods. My vintage set or I should say my most favorite vintage set is my 62 FC-4000s with a mixture of persimmon woods. But before I got hurt my favorite thing was my 6 hole walking deal with 6 or 8 clubs and always persimmon woods. I switch that deal around on a daily basis since I have so much stuff. Had one old fart make a smart comment one day and I offered to play him heads up for $100 with the 8 clubs I had in the bag.. No he was not stupid enough to bite at that. But yeah I do my own thing and do not really care on the score

[LeoLeo99]

Interesting question. On one hand, people were breaking par 40 years ago with persimmon and blades. On the other hand, you'll probably shoot lower scores with modern equipment. If you're going to try and win the tournament, you should have the tools in your bag that give you the best chance. Your wife must see something and you should listen to her. Buy new clubs and practice with them and enter some tournaments.

[Jiggered]

You mention getting a handicap, if you're going to play handicap competition golf then your clubs don't matter as your handicap will adjust itself to the shots you hit with your P&B equipment.

I oily play P&B and enter handicap comps and have just as much chance as the next guy as my handicap is based on my P&B play. In fact that's why I only play P&B because if I switched to modern when I fancied it then I'd have an unfair advantage and would effectively be sandbagging.

 

If, however, you want to compete in scratch comps then you'll need all the assistance that modern technology gives you to keep up with the other guys.

[BIG STU]

I will add something to what I said yesterday--- If I practice and hit balls I will throw one of my persimmon drivers in the practice bag. If I can hit that thing somewhat in the screws then my modern driver is a no brainer.

[miamistomp]

I often use wooden woods

I usually hit them more consistently than modern drivers. I like the weight and sound of the old club

A Wood Brothers corker or Ping zing are probably the best with the modern ball

[baloo]

What kind of competitive golf are you wanting to play? What are your expectations and goals?

I don't have much advice other than do what you enjoy the most. For most of us, this is a leisure activity, so go out and do it the way you're most comfortable. You certainly can shoot low scores with the older gear, so it's a fine option. Modern clubs do offer slight advantages in some areas.

I personally think the old stuff is just more fun, and obviously more affordable, so that's what I generally use.

[Richard 77]

What have you done to the old 53 top flites? Shafts, grips, loft , lie etc?

[elwhippy]

If the main issue is "competitive" then embrace some modern technology. You wouldn't run a marathon in a pair of Converse or play tennis with a wood framed racquet. Persimmon feels and looks great but Golf has moved on.

[BIG STU]

Competitive can be defined differently depending on what one wants to do. On some courses one can play pretty darn competitive with the old stuff some courses not so conducive to the older stuff. Good example and this is for me. My home course I can play just about the same from the same tees just as well with the modern or persimmon. Now go down the road to TPC and it is hard enough with forced carries etc with modern stuff I would not even think of playing it with persimmon. Now on the blade iron part it can be misleading for me since I play Mac blades anyhow in the front line set. All my Mac Irons I play regularly are set up the same with lofts and lies. Now in the weekly Dog Fights I was playing my metal woods due to the fact we had side bets and my partners depend on me. I have tried to make a few games with me playing persimmon and no one bites. When I get back in shape I will more than likely play my persimmons in the couples 9 and dine when I play it with my wife. We played it one time and I was bagging my modern stuff and we won it off my ball alone with me shooting 37 (+1). With the persimmon I can shoot just around that on my home course but have to work harder. Another challenge I do Is on my vintage rounds I use a different putter as in one of my vintage Iron Masters or a Bulls Eye. If I play my 97 Cameron I putt well with it and that is a no brainer. Besides I like the challenge of putting old school. I know my goals and opinions differ since I have retired from big money matches and no longer play Mini Tours. And do not let me mislead you if I was playing a Mini Tour event or big money match the signature set would be there. If they held a club championship I would more than likely play the old stuff just to see if I could hang. If I could hang in the top 10 out of say 40 players it would be a win for me. Prizes do not mean that much to me. I will admit I do some things because I am obstinate. In the example you gave I do not run or play tennis but the Converse and wood framed racket would be right up my alley you know just because

[deejaid]

You took seven years away from the game and what brought you back was the love of the sound and feel of playing classic clubs, not the competition of tournament play. No offense to your wife, but is there missing from her life that she is pushing you to play tournaments again? Did you travel together to tournaments in the past and that is something she misses and wants to experience again?

 

 

If you need convincing then it really isn’t something you want to do, is it? She should be happy you are experiencing the game in a way that once again brings you joy.

 

[Ping_Enthusiast]

Thank you for your views so far, it really has given me another perspective on things. Although I love the era of Hogan, Snead, Nicklaus right up to Faldo (my golfing hero) I don’t play Persimmon woods solely for that reason, the feel,look and sound of them is also a huge part of the appeal.......but I my experience the accuracy of persimmon when struck well beats any Titanium driver I have played with. So the question really, for me, is at what point does accuracy and the sheer pleasure of hitting a persimmon driver out of the screws give way to the length of a titanium. I find that on flushed drives there is about 15-25 yards of difference between the 2. Dave Pelz suggested that the best ball strikers on tour were recorded by him as hitting pin high approach shots at about a 5% +- accuracy so if I left myself 100 yards with titanium, using that figure, I could be as much as 5 yards right or left of the pin. If I was a further 20 yards back with persimmon I could be within 6 yards using the same figures. I would think that in reality I would probably be around double that on average which would mean that on the above approach shot I would be around 6 feet further away from the hole on average hitting a 20 yard shorter drive.

So it would appear that if I were to score better with Persimmon that Titanium I would require luck because the figures would suggest that the advantage of the modern gear is to great....................and I really hate that!!!!!

 

 

[sdandrea]

Go for it. See how it works out. You'll be like a stealth/hustler. Playa-guys will look at your bag and dismiss you - they'll never see you coming!

[Ping_Enthusiast]

Thought I would leave an update since we had discussed this. Went out to play my 3 rounds for handicap last week and fully intended to make the scientific play and use my Nike covert titanium driver and Cobra steel 3 wood............but.

I didn’t

Played my Beauwood persimmon driver, Macgregor eye o matic 4 wood (both x100 shafts) and Mizuno blades.

Round one - 2 over par

Round two - level par

Round three - 3 under par.

6700 yard course

So persimmon it is from now on. ??

[Foozle]

Great scoring! Well played!

[Ping_Enthusiast]

Thanks very much Foozle, Persimmon is criminally underrated in my book, still very playable and capable of serious distance with a modern ball (Pro V1x in my case)

[Foozle]

Completely agree. I play only persimmon and don't believe I am penalised much in distance. Pure strikes are hugely satisfying; sound and feel are pleasurable when compared to modern.

From your scoring it is clear you are a consistent ball striker - much better than me. I expect to be penalised for poor swings. It may sound perverse to some but the poor shots with persimmon add to my enjoyment of the game - I feel cheated and get no pleasure when I "get away" with a bad swing using a modern driver.

When I play persimmon and blades I score what I deserve and can revell in the good ones and learn to improve from the bad ones.

Once again, congratulations on very well deserved excellent scoring you can be justifiably proud of.

[Ping_Enthusiast]

I feel exactly the same way. I genuinely look forward to every drive with persimmon. Smashing a titanium is a bit soulless and let’s you away with murder at times (and you kind of know it).

[Tremendous-Slouch]

If you can shoot the scores, then I say go for it. IMO, it'd be even more fun to beat others that are playing modern clubs. Not only do they get beat, but they get beat by someone playing "inferior" equipment. Plus, if you enjoy the game better playing older clubs, then all the more reason. If you consistently strike them solid, then I don't feel you are really even giving much back to the field. On well struck shots, I feel vintage and modern gear are still pretty much equal. You hit a bad shot, you should be penalized, but vintage equipment tends to keep you in play even when you hit one bad, rather than way OB with moderns (at least in my experience).

 

Case in point for me: Two weeks ago, I played in a 4-man tourney and talked myself into playing my moderns (Titleist 975J-VS and 975f and 981 irons....so sorta modern) and couldn't hit a pure shot to save my life. Shot 40 and 40. On labor day morning, I go out to play 9 (at the same course as previous) with my Dad, and we play hickories. Shot 35. Kept it in play more, and had more birdie putts than the whole 18 combined from previous round.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Tremendous-Slouch

[cold_war_era_golfer]

I stink at golf and I golf with two groups of guys.  One all play 70s/80s irons and persimmon or laminate woods.  We have a ball!  Those guys are better than me but I have fun using my old stuff with them.  I get a kick out of that and it reminds me of when my dad used to golf in the 80s.  Sort of a nostalgic trip that no tournament victory could ever give me.

 

The other group is my neighbors who all use modern drivers larger than their heads and I take a good ribbing when I use my Ping Eye 2 woods but what's the point in driving a ball as far as you can with an oversized driver?  I have fun with these guys too but half of their shots are off the fairway with those modern drivers.

 

I golfed as a kid and picked it up again this summer so my experience is low compared to most posting here.  I probably don't know what I'm talking about.  But if I'm playing a course designed in 1910 didn't good players play way below par on old gear in the 1950s there?  I read that Jack Nicklaus used the same persimmon driver for 30 years?  Couldn't he still beat most of us using modern equipment?

 

I dunno at my age 38.  If my wife told me to start playing tournaments I'd think 1) no way am I ever going to get good at this sport mid-life. 2) Why do you want me out of the house more???