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The origin of bad instruction has been Hogan's book


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Driver Maltby KE4 w Aeortech Steelfiber SS65 shaft 46.5”
3 wood Rogue subzero 15 degree with Paderson KG70 F30
Hybrids: 3, 4 and 5 Rogue with Steelfiber HLS980 shaft
Irons: 6 through wedge PXG 0311 with Steelfiber i110cw shaft
Wedge: 50 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 S Grind
Wedge: 56 deg 10 deg bounce Jaws S Grind
Wedge: 62 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 C Grind (bent to 62 degrees from 60 degrees)
Wedges with steelfiber i110 shafts.
Putter: Strokelab EXO 7; 39.25 inches; 77 degree lie angle; Takimac arthritic grip

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Hell, I still don't know what pronate or supinate mean.

The way I always remember it from school... you have to supinate to hold a bowl of soup.

I like reading both of the Hogan books: They speak to me. I don't understand most modern instruction unless it uses thing like "plain English". Yes, I'm old and haven't a clue about any modern hittin

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I get where he is coming from. You can read what Hogan wrote and take it as an authoritative guide and how one should swing the golf club. We know Hogan didn't do some of the things he wrote about. We know certain swing ideas don't fit certain body types.

 

Being a bit younger, I'd say McLean's X-Factor has been the single worst concept in golf instruction

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I think that Chamblee is pretty much wrong. First Hogan's book describes Hogan's swing pretty well imho. Secondly the book has not been a major focus for tour swings for most of my lifetime anyway. When I was young everyone swung like Jack Nicklaus and it was not until Hank Haney started coaching Mark O'Meara to 'swing on a flat plane' that the I remember a lot of mention of Hogan's book. I would say that Jimmy Ballard and as @molecularman mentions Jim McLean were more responsible for the things that Chamblee rails against then 'Five Lessons'.
Chamblee is interesting to listen to but he does seem to come up with some crazy stuff!

Driver Maltby KE4 w Aeortech Steelfiber SS65 shaft 46.5”
3 wood Rogue subzero 15 degree with Paderson KG70 F30
Hybrids: 3, 4 and 5 Rogue with Steelfiber HLS980 shaft
Irons: 6 through wedge PXG 0311 with Steelfiber i110cw shaft
Wedge: 50 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 S Grind
Wedge: 56 deg 10 deg bounce Jaws S Grind
Wedge: 62 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 C Grind (bent to 62 degrees from 60 degrees)
Wedges with steelfiber i110 shafts.
Putter: Strokelab EXO 7; 39.25 inches; 77 degree lie angle; Takimac arthritic grip

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Chamblee is prone to hyperbole, for sure.

As far as "5 Lessons" is concerned, I found it to be very helpful as a means of understanding the basics of the golf swing. I came to the book in the middle of my 40 year history of playing golf, when I was in my late 20's and getting reintroduced to the game after taking several years off during college, etc.

Before reading the book, I never thought much about the golf swing, how it works, or how it should work. I went out and hit the ball. After reading that book, I knew the concepts, the vocabulary, the positions, etc. to rebuild my game, understand my results, and competently talk about the golf swing with a professional. That is what you should get out of "5 Lessons," IMHO. Not a whole lot more.

The instant that Chamblee starts to describe everything that is wrong with Hogan, he departs from "fundamentals" and gets lost in the weeds. For my own part, the only thing that I retain of "5 Lessons" is stance (slightly flared left foot) and ball position. The book should be a starting point. The journey, from there out, is on your own.

 

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I used to know those definitions and when I want to remember I google:

image.pngPaul Bertholy had a way to remember supinate and pronate by saying 'sup is up' meaning when you arm supinates the palm is facing up.

Driver Maltby KE4 w Aeortech Steelfiber SS65 shaft 46.5”
3 wood Rogue subzero 15 degree with Paderson KG70 F30
Hybrids: 3, 4 and 5 Rogue with Steelfiber HLS980 shaft
Irons: 6 through wedge PXG 0311 with Steelfiber i110cw shaft
Wedge: 50 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 S Grind
Wedge: 56 deg 10 deg bounce Jaws S Grind
Wedge: 62 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 C Grind (bent to 62 degrees from 60 degrees)
Wedges with steelfiber i110 shafts.
Putter: Strokelab EXO 7; 39.25 inches; 77 degree lie angle; Takimac arthritic grip

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I like reading both of the Hogan books: They speak to me. I don't understand most modern instruction unless it uses thing like "plain English". Yes, I'm old and haven't a clue about any modern hitting devices. I appreciate the old timey illustrations/ pictures. The books are straight forward. No wonder Chamblee doesn't like them. They never mention him.

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OP -- That was a very interesting video. Thanks for posting it. There will be folks who don't watch it who will just malign BC because they don't like him, but I now understand exactly where he (and the two others) stand on the use of technology in teaching (and the fact that technology has been able to confirm or deny what players have said they do in their own swings).

To your topic header, it's a bit of an oversimplification of the matter, but, yes, 5 Lessons appears to be ground-zero from which a lot of "incorrect" or "unhelpful" swing ideas went viral, according to BC. I cam certainly see his point after watching the video.

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Was reading the beginning of the last chapter today, interesting how Hogan says ...its based on what he has learned over 25 years...and that in 25 years more will be learned...now its an algorithm. I would love to see the time when the next code writer tells us how track man had bad code.

I'm going golfing tomorrow...not gone play golf swing,,,not gonna play golf algo....

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  • 3 weeks later...

I read all of Hogan's stuff and tried everything he said. After many years I have come to the conclusion that Hogan's advice was a mixture of some things he did and what he thought he did as well as additional stuff directed to the majority of golfers who have an over the top move that he thought would help them, like holding the right elbow close to the body during the backswing.

 

 

Taylormade R7 - Big Bertha 2, 4, 7w - Titleist DCI 990B 5i-PW, LW

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  • 3 weeks later...

He wrote it based upon what he felt he did in a time where multi-angle, slow motion film was not readily available.  How long did instructors not fully understand the "swing path laws" that we know today?

 

Feeling like you get that right elbow in does help (me) to flatten the swing on the downswing and drop the club in the slot to come into the ball with an in-to-out swing path.  With just a little change in grip you can take that swing path and hit fades, push-fades or push-draws.

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A lot of Hogan's advice was for 95% of golfers who have an inside to out move, just like most instruction on this website and youtube because that's still how most people swing, but it's not relevant to players who don't get in this position in the backswing.

 

Taylormade R7 - Big Bertha 2, 4, 7w - Titleist DCI 990B 5i-PW, LW

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Oh, Brandel. Thank god you have some wins under your belt to be this confident to criticize Hogan or Tiger. I wouldn't pay any attention to his so called "analysis". His swing mechanic is plain vanilla and lack any real depth. He's a one trick pony who can look at things only through his narrow lenses. If the swing does not match his perception then he'll be the first to confidently say it's trash. He's a good looking fellow though LOL

 

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https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2017/12/4/16733652/brandel-chamblee-tiger-woods-swing-comeback-hero-world-challenge-2017

So what else do you think he was also wrong about?

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