Swingweight Scale...For a hobby setup.

[RobK]

I am looking for advice on a basic economy swingweight scale? Any suggestions or anyone have one collecting dust?

[Nessism]

Have you checked Golfworks?

[pmang]

I have an extra one since I’ve recently purchased a newer one. PM me (Rob K)and I’ll send it to you.

[e-man]

I made my own. Works great and fairly accurate. I need to find the link to the post where I described it.

[Bigjim1022]

Golfworks, as mentioned above, has an economy scale. I think it was $50. Works fine for me and the 10 or so times I use it each hear. Occasionally they do a 20% off sale which is nice.

[Howard_Jones]

Are you sure you need one?.....the SW scale must be the most misunderstood and misused tools of them all, and the better you understand what it actually is, the better you will understand that you dont need it, since most of the situations its being used, is situations its not designed to handle and cant handle. A good ruler and a good gram scale is needed, a SW scale is not.

The SW scale was invented to "speed match" a set of irons, AFTER the first club in the set was tuned up to the player. I have not seen it used that way but the other way, where the value is decided first so the SW scale becomes in charge of whats the right feel of head weight, but the instrument CANT do that and was not designed to do that either.

If you for some reason need a value, (its useful for repair reference, and to judge influence on flex, thats really it), you can just use the balance point and weight to do the numbers, the SW scale is not really needed in that situation either.

I never thought that i would give a advice like this,. but as years has gone by, it has become more and more clear that most users of the SW scale is really clueless about what that tool is, and how to use it right, so most situations its used, is misuse, where the user fools himself big time because he dont understand the instrument at all.

Thats the short version...The LONG version is coming later, im still writing on it, i though it was about time someone did since ive seen mostly misuse of that instrument and it never ends, but its about time it does.

 

If you need a SW value, use the gram scale and balance point method

How To find the clubs balance point

Put the club on one finger to find circa BP. Put some painter tape around the shaft at that point, and put the shaft of a “sharp edge” (a knife in a vise, edge up is perfect), then move it back and forth until the shaft rest in balance. Now push the club down against the knife, so the edge of the knife set a BP mark in the tape, NOT the shaft, thats why we added that tape, so dont push to hard. Measure distance in millimetre from the butt side and take notes, then measure the clubs weight in grams. Go to the webpage in this link and enter both values, and you get a return as SW value.http://www.leaderboard.com/SWINGWT.HTM

1 mm off on BP will move the SW value average 0.3 SWP, equal to average 0.6 grams head weight and thats nothing compared to the errors seen (miss) using the SW scale.

(place the ruler against a wall, and the club on top of the ruler for a more accurate measurement of BP)

If its a set of IRONS and you want to use the SW system for that build to a classic 4/8" set, start by a measurement of head weight on all heads, then put together the iron thats normally your favorite. Go to the range with a roll of lead tape and start hitting balls. Tune up head weight until it feels and works like you want it to do. Go home and rip off that lead tape, and put it on the gram scale, and ADD that number to your notes for head weights. Draw a slope with 7.0 grams both ways from your favorite club so you know what tip weights to use for the others, build to those specs, and forget SW values, you dont even need them for repair reference since you have your notes of head weight, and if you absolutely want to see a value...use the weight and BP method.

 

 

 

[dekez]

On 8/5/2020 at 1:27 AM, Howard_Jones said:

Are you sure you need one?.....the SW scale must be the most misunderstood and misused tools of them all, and the better you understand what it actually is, the better you will understand that you dont need it, since most of the situations its being used, is situations its not designed to handle and cant handle. A good ruler and a good gram scale is needed, a SW scale is not.

The SW scale was invented to "speed match" a set of irons, AFTER the first club in the set was tuned up to the player. I have not seen it used that way but the other way, where the value is decided first so the SW scale becomes in charge of whats the right feel of head weight, but the instrument CANT do that and was not designed to do that either.

If you for some reason need a value, (its useful for repair reference, and to judge influence on flex, thats really it), you can just use the balance point and weight to do the numbers, the SW scale is not really needed in that situation either.

I never thought that i would give a advice like this,. but as years has gone by, it has become more and more clear that most users of the SW scale is really clueless about what that tool is, and how to use it right, so most situations its used, is misuse, where the user fools himself big time because he dont understand the instrument at all.

Thats the short version...The LONG version is coming later, im still writing on it, i though it was about time someone did since ive seen mostly misuse of that instrument and it never ends, but its about time it does.

 

If you need a SW value, use the gram scale and balance point method

How To find the clubs balance point

Put the club on one finger to find circa BP. Put some painter tape around the shaft at that point, and put the shaft of a “sharp edge” (a knife in a vise, edge up is perfect), then move it back and forth until the shaft rest in balance. Now push the club down against the knife, so the edge of the knife set a BP mark in the tape, NOT the shaft, thats why we added that tape, so dont push to hard. Measure distance in millimetre from the butt side and take notes, then measure the clubs weight in grams. Go to the webpage in this link and enter both values, and you get a return as SW value.http://www.leaderboard.com/SWINGWT.HTM

1 mm off on BP will move the SW value average 0.3 SWP, equal to average 0.6 grams head weight and thats nothing compared to the errors seen (miss) using the SW scale.

(place the ruler against a wall, and the club on top of the ruler for a more accurate measurement of BP)

If its a set of IRONS and you want to use the SW system for that build to a classic 4/8" set, start by a measurement of head weight on all heads, then put together the iron thats normally your favorite. Go to the range with a roll of lead tape and start hitting balls. Tune up head weight until it feels and works like you want it to do. Go home and rip off that lead tape, and put it on the gram scale, and ADD that number to your notes for head weights. Draw a slope with 7.0 grams both ways from your favorite club so you know what tip weights to use for the others, build to those specs, and forget SW values, you dont even need them for repair reference since you have your notes of head weight, and if you absolutely want to see a value...use the weight and BP method.

 

 

 

Does 7.0 gram slope mean if a 9 iron head is 400g, the 8 iron head should be 393 and the PW head 407?

[Howard_Jones]

9 minutes ago, dekez said:

Does 7.0 gram slope mean if a 9 iron head is 400g, the 8 iron head should be 393 and the PW head 407?

YES, and here is what we can expect as standard head wgt

[dekez]

5 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

YES, and here is what we can expect as standard head wgt

Thank you Howard

[Stuart_G]

11 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

YES, and here is what we can expect as standard head wgt

 

 

I like the chart but personally I'd be skeptical about any expectations when it comes to hybrid head weights.   From what little I've seen they can be all over the place, more so than the other head types.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Stuart_G

[onetime19]

I have used the economy SW scale from Golfworks and it does a pretty good job.

[dekez]

12 hours ago, dekez said:

Thank you Howard

Does this slope produce a "MOI matched" set (or is that where the shaft length reductions come in)?  

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, dekez said:

Does this slope produce a "MOI matched" set (or is that where the shaft length reductions come in)?  

This is typical std head wgt for classic 4/8" Swing weight matched sets...
About the same head wgt and 3/8" progression would be progressive SW close to MOI match, but you will have to find what end to start from, so its not that simple if MOI matching is the target. We also use different MOI value depending on what group of clubs, so its WAY more to it than a "head wgt chart"

 

[dekez]

2 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

This is typical std head wgt for classic 4/8" Swing weight matched sets...
About the same head wgt and 3/8" progression would be progressive SW close to MOI match, but you will have to find what end to start from, so its not that simple if MOI matching is the target. We also use different MOI value depending on what group of clubs, so its WAY more to it than a "head wgt chart"

 

Thanks again

[Mike412]

On 8/5/2020 at 12:27 AM, Howard_Jones said:

Are you sure you need one?.....the SW scale must be the most misunderstood and misused tools of them all, and the better you understand what it actually is, the better you will understand that you dont need it, since most of the situations its being used, is situations its not designed to handle and cant handle. A good ruler and a good gram scale is needed, a SW scale is not.

The SW scale was invented to "speed match" a set of irons, AFTER the first club in the set was tuned up to the player. I have not seen it used that way but the other way, where the value is decided first so the SW scale becomes in charge of whats the right feel of head weight, but the instrument CANT do that and was not designed to do that either.

If you for some reason need a value, (its useful for repair reference, and to judge influence on flex, thats really it), you can just use the balance point and weight to do the numbers, the SW scale is not really needed in that situation either.

I never thought that i would give a advice like this,. but as years has gone by, it has become more and more clear that most users of the SW scale is really clueless about what that tool is, and how to use it right, so most situations its used, is misuse, where the user fools himself big time because he dont understand the instrument at all.

Thats the short version...The LONG version is coming later, im still writing on it, i though it was about time someone did since ive seen mostly misuse of that instrument and it never ends, but its about time it does.

 

If you need a SW value, use the gram scale and balance point method

How To find the clubs balance point

Put the club on one finger to find circa BP. Put some painter tape around the shaft at that point, and put the shaft of a “sharp edge” (a knife in a vise, edge up is perfect), then move it back and forth until the shaft rest in balance. Now push the club down against the knife, so the edge of the knife set a BP mark in the tape, NOT the shaft, thats why we added that tape, so dont push to hard. Measure distance in millimetre from the butt side and take notes, then measure the clubs weight in grams. Go to the webpage in this link and enter both values, and you get a return as SW value.http://www.leaderboard.com/SWINGWT.HTM

1 mm off on BP will move the SW value average 0.3 SWP, equal to average 0.6 grams head weight and thats nothing compared to the errors seen (miss) using the SW scale.

(place the ruler against a wall, and the club on top of the ruler for a more accurate measurement of BP)

If its a set of IRONS and you want to use the SW system for that build to a classic 4/8" set, start by a measurement of head weight on all heads, then put together the iron thats normally your favorite. Go to the range with a roll of lead tape and start hitting balls. Tune up head weight until it feels and works like you want it to do. Go home and rip off that lead tape, and put it on the gram scale, and ADD that number to your notes for head weights. Draw a slope with 7.0 grams both ways from your favorite club so you know what tip weights to use for the others, build to those specs, and forget SW values, you dont even need them for repair reference since you have your notes of head weight, and if you absolutely want to see a value...use the weight and BP method.

 

 

 

I’m planning to shorten my driver shaft by 1-1/4” is the balance point method the best way to add weight to the head in order to have the same “feel” or would swing weight be correct method for this?

[David Miller]

On 8/5/2020 at 1:27 AM, Howard_Jones said:

 

If you need a SW value, use the gram scale and balance point method

Wow this is incredible and extremely helpful. Thanks for saving me a tremendous amount of time and money. Now off to build a custom set of 7MC's 🙂

 

 

[Stuart_G]

7 hours ago, JCitW6855 said:

I’m planning to shorten my driver shaft by 1-1/4” is the balance point method the best way to add weight to the head in order to have the same “feel” or would swing weight be correct method for this?

 

Neither.   The only reliable way to try and maintain the same feel is to go to the range and dial it in by feel.  Adding lead tape incrementally while actually hitting balls.

[David Miller]

On 8/5/2020 at 1:27 AM, Howard_Jones said:

Draw a slope with 7.0 grams both ways from your favorite club so you know what tip weights to use for the others, build to those specs, and forget SW values, you dont even need them for repair reference since you have your notes of head weight, and if you absolutely want to see a value...use the weight and BP method.

 

Question on the above ^. This makes sense and works for an iron set but a bit confused how this will roll into a driving iron or potentially a 3 wood or driver. If we use the chart above and I'm using say 130g shafts (x100) but then I go to a Tour AD-95 driving iron shaft, won't the swing weight be be messed up? Even if the heads are on the 7 gram metric, there will be a drastic drop off from the 130 to the 95 gram shaft??

 

Maybe I'm missing something but a little confused on how this would roll into woods or specifically in my case a driving iron. 

[Therty]

Not sure if this is OB or not, but I am working on tools for club fitters/builders, especially those without specialist equipment - I just released my first app, a simple swingweight calculator for iOS which calculates SW using the balance point method described in this thread. would you be interested in checking it out? It’s completely free - i’d love some feedback! https://apps.apple.com/us/app/golf-swingweight-calculator/id1631690122 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Therty

[David Miller]

14 hours ago, Therty said:

Not sure if this is OB or not, but I am working on tools for club fitters/builders, especially those without specialist equipment - I just released my first app, a simple swingweight calculator for iOS which calculates SW using the balance point method described in this thread. would you be interested in checking it out? It’s completely free - i’d love some feedback! https://apps.apple.com/us/app/golf-swingweight-calculator/id1631690122 

Just downloaded it! Looks awesome so far. Will be using it for my next build. 

 

Dave 

[Nessism]

Measuring total weight and balance point is a valid method to determine swingweight.  That said, it's really easy to measure incorrectly, particularly the balance point.  

 

Realistically, measuring swingweight this way, if you are careful, and take your time, will get you to within 1 swingweight point of your target.  For most people that's good enough, but if you want something more exact, spend the money and get a scale.

[Therty]

3 hours ago, Nessism said:

Measuring total weight and balance point is a valid method to determine swingweight.  That said, it's really easy to measure incorrectly, particularly the balance point.  

 

Realistically, measuring swingweight this way, if you are careful, and take your time, will get you to within 1 swingweight point of your target.  For most people that's good enough, but if you want something more exact, spend the money and get a scale.

Absolutely. For reference: 1/8” mis-measurment if the balance point is almost 1.5 SW error. Measure accurately!

[David Miller]

On 2/2/2021 at 9:46 PM, Howard_Jones said:

YES, and here is what we can expect as standard head wgt

Try #2 -> this is where I originally found the idea but thought that the MOI matching would make more sense. 

 

Apologies regardless..

 

Building some 7MC's with 122 gram shafts. Looking to do 7 gram head weights all the way down. Taylormade has their head weights about 10 grams heavier than standard (8 iron, which I built to specs was 284 grams in the head) which I like and am fine by. Planning on doing headweights all the way down to match them up with the 7 gram scale. 

 

However, I run into an issue and have questions with my wedges. The PW in the set is currently 300, which is a little heavy. However, the 52 degree Jaws wedge I'm using is at 294 (plus the tip weight Cally used to get it to 294). Thinking this needs to get up to around 307. However, here's my issue.

 

My iron shafts do NOT match my wedge shafts and I'm curious how that will make a difference. Trying out some S300's in my wedges as my iron shafts are a little lighter and also dropping down in a flex from x to stiff. Usually use my wedges for touchy shots and knock downs so not too worried about the weight difference. However, I'm curious how this will transfer over to the heads. Does this mean I should keep going with the head weights being at 7 gram gaps? or does it effect it because my shafts change from 122 to 129 gram shafts. 

 

Anything helps, 

David