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How did you conquer the shanks?


dakpery
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6 hours ago, dap said:

Brian Manzella would disagree with you. He said golfers hit shanks because for whatever reason the player has mistaken the sweet spot for the hosel. He coins it lagging the hosel instead of lagging the sweet spot. He said this was more likely to occur when the club face is way open which puts the sweet spot right behind the hosel looking down the plane line. 
 

Most handicap players early extend but not all of them suffer chronic shanking so why is that? I can do the mother of all goat humps but I will still hit the middle of the club face if I’m sensing where the sweet spot is correctly. You would think if I lost my tushline by six inches I would completely miss the ball.

 

 

And I'm sure plenty would diagree with him. An open club face is very common and it's caused by swing flaws, I really don't think anyone (consciously or subconsciously) perceives the hosel to be the sweet spot.

 

Not all EE is the same and some golfers just compensate better than others. I'd venture to say dumped under flippers are more prone to shanks than OTT slicers, although both can have EE.

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1 hour ago, Krt22 said:

And I'm sure plenty would diagree with him. An open club face is very common and it's caused by swing flaws, I really don't think anyone (consciously or subconsciously) perceives the hosel to be the sweet spot.

 

I've seen guys who heel everything from a 3i to wedges to little tiny shots around the green where pivot is minimal and things like EE aren't a big factor. If you ask them to do a practice swing at slow speed and return the club to impact and stop, they will they will be presenting the heel. Those players sense that the heel is the sweet spot because they've lost the clubface somewhere in the swing. IMO clubface is the most important thing in the swing and If it's under control, it's possible to strike the ball very well with a swing littered with "flaws"

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35 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

 

I've seen guys who heel everything from a 3i to wedges to little tiny shots around the green where pivot is minimal and things like EE aren't a big factor. If you ask them to do a practice swing at slow speed and return the club to impact and stop, they will they will be presenting the heel. Those players sense that the heel is the sweet spot because they've lost the clubface somewhere in the swing. IMO clubface is the most important thing in the swing and If it's under control, it's possible to strike the ball very well with a swing littered with "flaws"

If you shank a chip there is still a reason for it, its not something that just happens. And an open club face in itself is a flaw that can be fixed. And I already have stated, you can play very high level golf with technical flaws, but under certain circumstances those flaws can manifest themselves as a shank. This notion that a shank is a mystery shot just doesn't pass muster with me, I say that as a serial shanker. 

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29 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

This notion that a shank is a mystery shot just doesn't pass muster with me, I say that as a serial shanker. 

 

It's not a mystery shot like some kind of black magic.. although it feels that way to a lot of people. It's simply the clubface getting weaker in the downswing and causing a misperception, or as nail it says "the sweet spot not coming out of it's hiding place." There are all sorts of scenarios where the clubface can be lost in this way, but in any case it will result in the golfer sensing that the heel/hosel is the sweet spot.

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2 minutes ago, footmashie said:

 

No, just no.  In what universe is an open face, in itself, a flaw.  It certainly can be depending on playing abilities, but to state with that apparent level of certainty that it is, is simply not accurate for those that know how to handle a strike coming from an open, or squarer, to path face.  

Yep.  Not to mention that the majority of shanked shots are hit with a square or closed club face.  Watch a golfer who shanks a few and invariably the first solid shot will be a big pull because the golfers brain is shutting the clubface down to try to stop the ball from going off in a direction that appears to be the result of leaving the face open.

Driver Maltby KE4 w Aeortech Steelfiber SS65 shaft 46.5”
3 wood Rogue subzero 15 degree with Paderson KG70 F30
Hybrids: 3, 4 and 5 Rogue with Steelfiber HLS980 shaft
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1 hour ago, footmashie said:

 

No, just no.  In what universe is an open face, in itself, a flaw.  It certainly can be depending on playing abilities, but to state with that apparent level of certainty that it is, is simply not accurate for those that know how to handle a strike coming from an open, or squarer, to path face.  

lol in what universe is it not? I'm not talking about intentionally hitting an open faced shot, I'm talking about people who don't manage the face properly and then have to compensate. 

 

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

Yep.  Not to mention that the majority of shanked shots are hit with a square or closed club face.  Watch a golfer who shanks a few and invariably the first solid shot will be a big pull because the golfers brain is shutting the clubface down to try to stop the ball from going off in a direction that appears to be the result of leaving the face open.

Yes, that is my point. That is the golfer compensating for the flaw that brings the hosel into the equation in the first place. 

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1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

Yep.  Not to mention that the majority of shanked shots are hit with a square or closed club face.  Watch a golfer who shanks a few and invariably the first solid shot will be a big pull because the golfers brain is shutting the clubface down to try to stop the ball from going off in a direction that appears to be the result of leaving the face open.

I don't think so....when a right handed player shanks an iron, the ball screams off straight right.  If the face was closed the ball couldn't go right because the face would lead the hosel.  For a dumped under player, (speaking from experience), shanks happen because the club face is open late in the downswing and trailing the hands which are moving too outward from the body.    The more dumped under and open the club face is late in the swing, the more the player has to raise the handle, (uncock), and roll the hands to 'find' the ball with the club face, (insert early extension here because the hands have moved closer to the target line and higher than they were at address).  If the path is too far right, and your are dumped under with an open face, then you have to find some serious steepening elements very late, (stand up and roll the shaft), in order to counter the shallow position and make contact.  If you are late with those steepening elements, you'll send the hosel straight into the ball.

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3 minutes ago, DShepley said:

I don't think so....when a right handed player shanks an iron, the ball screams off straight right.  If the face was closed the ball couldn't go right because the face would lead the hosel.  For a dumped under player, (speaking from experience), shanks happen because the club face is open late in the downswing and trailing the hands which are moving too outward from the body.    The more dumped under and open the club face is late in the swing, the more the player has to raise the handle, (uncock), and roll the hands to 'find' the ball with the club face, (insert early extension here because the hands have moved closer to the target line and higher than they were at address).  If the path is too far right, and your are dumped under with an open face, then you have to find some serious steepening elements very late, (stand up and roll the shaft), in order to counter the shallow position and make contact.  If you are late with those steepening elements, you'll send the hosel straight into the ball.

Hey Shep, 

 

Shanks hit with a closed clubface happen all the time and the ball goes to the right for a right hander because it hits the hosel.  This has been verified by video and by various teaching pros and so on many times.  Also verified by yours truly who has spent a good amount of time battling shanked shots.  If you want to find out for yourself it is fairly easy to hit some chip shots and intentionally shank them with a closed club face.  Another thing is that golfers shank a lot more shots then they realize.  For a right handed golfer a lot of short right shots catch just a little bit of the hosel.  I see this happen quite often sometimes unfortunately to myself.  I spend a fair amount of time practicing hitting balls off the heel and toe on my skytrak setup and have verified the partial shank many times.  I can recognize it fairly well on the golf course.  LOL the golfer will say that the club face was left open on that one when in fact it was neck hit that caught a bit of the hosel.  The reaction to this is often a big pull on the next solid shot.

 

Unwanted shanks are caused because the golfers hand eye gets out of whack for whatever reason.  An interesting case in point is a blind golfer who was shanking shots and the fix was to simply set him up with the ball on the toe of the club instead of in the middle.  Since the blind golfer could not see the ball he swung in the same manner that produced the shank and flushed the shot.  If you try the same exercise with a sighted golfer the next ball is likely to be a worse shank as the brain sees the ball on the toe and compensates in the wrong direction.  On the other hand shanks can sometimes be fixed by setting up with the ball on neck instead of centered as the brain will pull the club in to try to find the middle of the club.

 

Early extension and open club faces have no bearing on shanking the ball.  You can make all the same 'mistakes' and flush it right in the middle of the face.  We are talking about a half inch or so difference in club path here.  I sincerely hope that nobody goes through what I did with shanking shots but if you do you will find out that mechanical fixes rarely work for very long if at all.

Driver Maltby KE4 w Aeortech Steelfiber SS65 shaft 46.5”
3 wood Rogue subzero 15 degree with Paderson KG70 F30
Hybrids: 3, 4 and 5 Rogue with Steelfiber HLS980 shaft
Irons: 6 through wedge PXG 0311 with Steelfiber i110cw shaft
Wedge: 50 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 S Grind
Wedge: 56 deg 10 deg bounce Jaws S Grind
Wedge: 62 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 C Grind (bent to 62 degrees from 60 degrees)
Wedges with steelfiber i110 shafts.
Putter: Strokelab EXO 7; 39.25 inches; 77 degree lie angle; Takimac arthritic grip

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3 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Hey Shep, 

 

Shanks hit with a closed clubface happen all the time and the ball goes to the right for a right hander because it hits the hosel.  This has been verified by video and by various teaching pros and so on many times.  Also verified by yours truly who has spent a good amount of time battling shanked shots.  If you want to find out for yourself it is fairly easy to hit some chip shots and intentionally shank them with a closed club face.  Another thing is that golfers shank a lot more shots then they realize.  For a right handed golfer a lot of short right shots catch just a little bit of the hosel.  I see this happen quite often sometimes unfortunately to myself.  I spend a fair amount of time practicing hitting balls off the heel and toe on my skytrak setup and have verified the partial shank many times.  I can recognize it fairly well on the golf course.  LOL the golfer will say that the club face was left open on that one when in fact it was neck hit that caught a bit of the hosel.  The reaction to this is often a big pull on the next solid shot.

 

Unwanted shanks are caused because the golfers hand eye gets out of whack for whatever reason.  An interesting case in point is a blind golfer who was shanking shots and the fix was to simply set him up with the ball on the toe of the club instead of in the middle.  Since the blind golfer could not see the ball he swung in the same manner that produced the shank and flushed the shot.  If you try the same exercise with a sighted golfer the next ball is likely to be a worse shank as the brain sees the ball on the toe and compensates in the wrong direction.  On the other hand shanks can sometimes be fixed by setting up with the ball on neck instead of centered as the brain will pull the club in to try to find the middle of the club.

 

Early extension and open club faces have no bearing on shanking the ball.  You can make all the same 'mistakes' and flush it right in the middle of the face.  We are talking about a half inch or so difference in club path here.  I sincerely hope that nobody goes through what I did with shanking shots but if you do you will find out that mechanical fixes rarely work for very long if at all.

Thank goodness you are not an instructor ?

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On 8/18/2020 at 6:31 PM, dakpery said:

Currently in a battle with the shanks (and they’re winning). Can’t seem to shake them and pick them up every 2 months or so. It looks like I’ve never picked up a club, and it’s honestly starting to get it me. 
 

Any tips or tricks are more then welcome!

 

I'll hit shots where I try to intentionally hit it out on the toe.  I try to feel I'm really pulling the hands in on my body during the downswing.  

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1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

Hey Shep, 

 

Shanks hit with a closed clubface happen all the time and the ball goes to the right for a right hander because it hits the hosel.  This has been verified by video and by various teaching pros and so on many times.  Also verified by yours truly who has spent a good amount of time battling shanked shots.  If you want to find out for yourself it is fairly easy to hit some chip shots and intentionally shank them with a closed club face.  Another thing is that golfers shank a lot more shots then they realize.  For a right handed golfer a lot of short right shots catch just a little bit of the hosel.  I see this happen quite often sometimes unfortunately to myself.  I spend a fair amount of time practicing hitting balls off the heel and toe on my skytrak setup and have verified the partial shank many times.  I can recognize it fairly well on the golf course.  LOL the golfer will say that the club face was left open on that one when in fact it was neck hit that caught a bit of the hosel.  The reaction to this is often a big pull on the next solid shot.

 

Unwanted shanks are caused because the golfers hand eye gets out of whack for whatever reason.  An interesting case in point is a blind golfer who was shanking shots and the fix was to simply set him up with the ball on the toe of the club instead of in the middle.  Since the blind golfer could not see the ball he swung in the same manner that produced the shank and flushed the shot.  If you try the same exercise with a sighted golfer the next ball is likely to be a worse shank as the brain sees the ball on the toe and compensates in the wrong direction.  On the other hand shanks can sometimes be fixed by setting up with the ball on neck instead of centered as the brain will pull the club in to try to find the middle of the club.

 

Early extension and open club faces have no bearing on shanking the ball.  You can make all the same 'mistakes' and flush it right in the middle of the face.  We are talking about a half inch or so difference in club path here.  I sincerely hope that nobody goes through what I did with shanking shots but if you do you will find out that mechanical fixes rarely work for very long if at all.

I'd have to see that video.  I can't for the life of me get my head around how a shank with a closed club face would produce a ball screaming to the right.  Wouldn't the club face get in the way of that?  

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2 minutes ago, DShepley said:

I'd have to see that video.  I can't for the life of me get my head around how a shank with a closed club face would produce a ball screaming to the right.  Wouldn't the club face get in the way of that?  

Here you go:

 

Driver Maltby KE4 w Aeortech Steelfiber SS65 shaft 46.5”
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2 minutes ago, DShepley said:

Interesting.  I would bet most good players don't shank it from over the top with a closed face but are rather under plane with an open face and the hosel leading.

I don't think tour pros are shanking due to over the top with a closed face either because they would correct the problem before it got to that point.  They are not shanking because the face is open either.  You can see tour players shanking here:

 

If you look at the closeups you can see the face is normal at impact and closing normally after impact.

 

Driver Maltby KE4 w Aeortech Steelfiber SS65 shaft 46.5”
3 wood Rogue subzero 15 degree with Paderson KG70 F30
Hybrids: 3, 4 and 5 Rogue with Steelfiber HLS980 shaft
Irons: 6 through wedge PXG 0311 with Steelfiber i110cw shaft
Wedge: 50 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 S Grind
Wedge: 56 deg 10 deg bounce Jaws S Grind
Wedge: 62 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 C Grind (bent to 62 degrees from 60 degrees)
Wedges with steelfiber i110 shafts.
Putter: Strokelab EXO 7; 39.25 inches; 77 degree lie angle; Takimac arthritic grip

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2 hours ago, DShepley said:

Interesting.  I would bet most good players don't shank it from over the top with a closed face but are rather under plane with an open face and the hosel leading.

The swing direction can be under or over but the face weakening is the commonality and root of it. The face slams shut from the collision on the hosel. That’s why shankers get the toe digging pencil divots. 

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Since I started using lighter clubs, not one, knock on wood. Too heavy a static weight can cause impact to migrate too close to the heel. Ymmv

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You can hit the ball with the hosel whether the club face is open, square or closed at impact. It’s just that an open club face coming down places the sweet spot right behind the hosel and it can confuse your perception where the sweet spot is. That’s the theory anyway. Manzella suggests making sure you don’t leave the face open too long when you start your downswing.

 

 

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On 9/3/2020 at 6:10 PM, footmashie said:

But Harmon knows there's more than one way to shank a cat.

 

 

 

 

This is interesting. Is it possible, I have the shanks and not the yips? Are they close cousins? I have been shanking chips, the ball just dribbles to the right (rightie). Is it the same fix as above vid, for a shanked chip?  

 

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4 hours ago, Tanner25 said:

 

This is interesting. Is it possible, I have the shanks and not the yips? Are they close cousins? I have been shanking chips, the ball just dribbles to the right (rightie). Is it the same fix as above vid, for a shanked chip?  

 

Yes the club cover drill will help.  There is another drill that I mentioned in the first answer to the OP that I have never seen fail and that you can do on the course.  The drill is to simply set up to the ball normally like you were going to hit a shot and then swing three times missing the ball on the inside each time and then go ahead and hit the ball without changing your stance.  This drill was recommended by Manuel de la Torre among other instructors.  I don't know who came up with it originally.  

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Driver Maltby KE4 w Aeortech Steelfiber SS65 shaft 46.5”
3 wood Rogue subzero 15 degree with Paderson KG70 F30
Hybrids: 3, 4 and 5 Rogue with Steelfiber HLS980 shaft
Irons: 6 through wedge PXG 0311 with Steelfiber i110cw shaft
Wedge: 50 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 S Grind
Wedge: 56 deg 10 deg bounce Jaws S Grind
Wedge: 62 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 C Grind (bent to 62 degrees from 60 degrees)
Wedges with steelfiber i110 shafts.
Putter: Strokelab EXO 7; 39.25 inches; 77 degree lie angle; Takimac arthritic grip

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1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

Yes the club cover drill will help.  There is another drill that I mentioned in the first answer to the OP that I have never seen fail and that you can do on the course.  The drill is to simply set up to the ball normally like you were going to hit a shot and then swing three times missing the ball on the inside each time and then go ahead and hit the ball without changing your stance.  This drill was recommended by Manuel de la Torre among other instructors.  I don't know who came up with it originally.  

 

Thx, Nels55. Viewed a vid that shared two tips on YT on shanked chips. Sucking the club inside on the backswing is a killer (fix: swing more straight back w/ some arc) and too much forward shaft leaning at address also exposes the hosel. Fix: Address closer to neutral. Something to try out. 

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On 9/3/2020 at 6:37 PM, DShepley said:

Interesting.  I would bet most good players don't shank it from over the top with a closed face but are rather under plane with an open face and the hosel leading.

 

The few times I've experienced repeated shanking, it's been from the swing getting outside in.  Then again, the same thing can give me toe hits.   Really, a shank can come from any swing path and with any reasonable face orientation.   I still say it's a hand-eye problem, but I agree that if your swing is particularly off today, the changed path can be the immediate cause.

 

The fact that shanks or toe hits almost never improve by changing where you address the ball on the club face should tell us to think outside of the box.

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  • 6 months later...

I have them right now.  Feels like they will go on forever.  I’ve watched every YouTube video promising that I’ll cure my shanks immediately....but nothing.

 

I sometimes get them in the spring but they go away in a day or two on the range...but I’ve had them for two weeks now and these seem more sinister. 

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31 minutes ago, TServos said:

I have them right now.  Feels like they will go on forever.  I’ve watched every YouTube video promising that I’ll cure my shanks immediately....but nothing.

 

I sometimes get them in the spring but they go away in a day or two on the range...but I’ve had them for two weeks now and these seem more sinister. 


Nothing sinister about them.  Just a another miss that feels (and looks) so bad that we blow it way out of proportion.  A shank is a hosel shot.  Not really any different that an equal miss off the toe.  Fat and thin are also analogous.  We lay the sod over, or we cut the ball in half sending it screaming into parts unknown over the green. 


Point is, we beat ourselves up over shanks but somehow shrug off these other misses.  Brendon Todd shanked one on 17 today at Sawgrass, Bryson did it on 4...misses are part of the game.  

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9 hours ago, stryper said:


Nothing sinister about them.  Just a another miss that feels (and looks) so bad that we blow it way out of proportion.  A shank is a hosel shot.  Not really any different that an equal miss off the toe.  Fat and thin are also analogous.  We lay the sod over, or we cut the ball in half sending it screaming into parts unknown over the green. 


Point is, we beat ourselves up over shanks but somehow shrug off these other misses.  Brendon Todd shanked one on 17 today at Sawgrass, Bryson did it on 4...misses are part of the game.  

We shrug off other bad shots because they are usually “one-offs.”  I’ve never thinned 4 shots in a row on the range in my life...but I’m into multiple range visits and it’s just getting worse.  I’m a decent player...can score in the 70’s on my relatively easy course...but I could  shank an entire bucket of range balls and be unable to diagnose why.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/14/2021 at 9:15 PM, TServos said:

I have them right now.  Feels like they will go on forever.  I’ve watched every YouTube video promising that I’ll cure my shanks immediately....but nothing.

 

I sometimes get them in the spring but they go away in a day or two on the range...but I’ve had them for two weeks now and these seem more sinister. 

Any luck with the shanks this season? I’m currently going through them and want to quit. Even my driver is coming off the heel. 

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      Please put and comments or questions here
       
       
      Scotty Cameron putters - 2022 American Express
      New Taylor-Made putters - 2022 American Express
      New Odyssey putters - 2022 American Express
      New Axis 1 model putter - - 2022 American Express
      Patrick Cantlay - WITB - 2022 American Express
      Mitsubishi MMT putter shaft - 2022 American Express
      Ping putter - 2022 American Express
      Abraham Ancer - WITB - 2022 American Express
      Jason Dufner - WITB - 2022 American Express
      Will Zalatoris - WITB - 2022 American Express
      The Surgeon 6109 wedge - 2022 American Express
      LA Golf "DJ Series" shafts (2022 American Express)
       
       
       
      2022 American Express - Monday #1
       
       
       
       
      • 40 replies
    • Sony Open Pics from January 11, 2022 Part 1
      I was able to get out to the Sony Open today to take a few pics.  I guess due to Covid precautions they kept the spectators pretty far from the players.  Also due to camera restrictions they've put in place, I wasn't able to bring the big lens like I normally do. Hopefully they'll ease up on the ropes and I'll be able to get more pics tomorrow!
      • 22 replies
    • 2022 Callaway Rogue ST drivers (in-hand photos)
      2022 Callaway Rogue ST Max driver
       

       
      2022 Callaway Rogue ST Max D driver
       
      2021 Callaway Rogue ST Max 
       
      2022 Callaway Rogue ST Max LS driver

       
      2022 Callaway Rogue ST Triple Diamond LS

       
      Rogue ST exploded views
      • 206 replies
    • Titleist Vokey SM9 Link on Wedge Works Coming Soon- UPDATED Pics Added Pg 4
      Looks like there is a link on Titleist Wedge Works for the new Vokey SM9, but doesn't show any photos yet.
       
      https://www.vokey.com/product/WM137.html#start=4
      • 215 replies

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