Cheating in the Club Championship

[nkk5019]

This past weekend was my club championship, a 36-hole stroke play event. On Saturday, I was paired with a friend and a 16-year old junior member who plays competitively in high school and local events. He is a talented player, carrying an index between 1-2, but he has a reputation as a cheater and my friend and I were forewarned accordingly by other members and staff (neither of us had previously played with him). Well, we had an incident...and I'm curious how others might have handled it.

 

The fact pattern:

 

• The 11th hole at our club is a sharp dogleg right par 5 which goes uphill after the dogleg.
• All 3 players hit good drives in the fairway and hit our approaches to the green.
• I hit the green in 2, my friend's second shot went long and right, and the junior member pulled his approach shot roughly 15-20 yards short and left of the green.
• After marking my ball and picking it up, I assisted my friend in finding his ball, and stood relatively close as he pitched onto the green.
• At about the same time we were coming back to the green, we watched the junior member chip onto the green from *5 yards short of the green*, a different position than where we saw his second shot land. His chip landed on the green and he two-putted.
• As we were walking to the tee, I confirmed that he had scored a 6 (assuming he had chunked his third and the chip we witnessed was his fourth shot).
• He insisted that he had made a 5. My friend and I were both suspicious and questioned what happened, but the problem is that we did not witness him chunking his 3rd shot and therefore could not prove him wrong. He was adamant that he made a par so we marked him down for a 5. 

 

The 12th hole is a par 3, and the tee box is relatively close to where the junior member's second shot had landed. After the round (and after we signed and submitted scorecards), a player in the preceding group told us that HE had witnessed the duffed chip, thus corroborating our suspicions of his dishonesty. 

 

At that point, my friend and I felt it was too late to do anything about it. After the tournament ended the following day, we pulled the junior member aside and privately told him "we know what happened on 11 yesterday." We told him he's a good player, and that if he has aspirations of playing college golf that a cheating incident could jeopardize more than just a round of golf. He looked at the ground and nodded his head in acknowledgement. He knew he had been caught. 

 

How would you have handled this episode? Were we too easy on him or did we handle it the right way? I regret not protecting the field, but I also didn't want to publicly shame a 16-year old for something like this. FWIW, he ended up having a bad second day and was a non-factor in the tournament. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by nkk5019

[dakpery]

As long as he didn't win the tournament by a stroke I believe you handled the situation really well. 16 years old is still really young and he has a lot of time to come to the realization that cheating won't get him anywhere in collegiate golf. 

[kozubs]

I guess it depends on where he lies in the field.   If he's not in contention of winning, I would have probably done what you did and move on.  However, if he was in contention I probably would have given him the opportunity to withdraw and the infraction remains a secret or I inform the club pro.  It would suck for him to win by cheating.  Hopefully your discussion will change his ways.  

 

I am curious to hear what others thinks though.  I'm sure many will think he should have been DQ's with all to know.  

[GSDriver]

6 year old, handled properly, but 16 should have called them out.  By 16 if haven't learned integrity, no tellin' how they'll end up later in life.  Play with integrity and by the rules or play by yourself.

[Nard_S]

You handled it correctly imo. May not have hurt to inform him he already had a reputation coming into it. He is 16, a dose of chill is okay here.

[Noles]

I think you handled it well.  I would add one more step.  I'm not sure what you mean by a junior member but if his parents are members of the club, I would seek them out and let them know what happened.  If his parents are not members, I would inform the pro and suggest they not welcome him back as a junior member next year.

[Sawgrass]

He cheated, then lied to your face about it.

 

You should have reported him and gotten him DQed.  He already had his chance at redemption when you tried to confirm his score as a 6.   Yes, he’s a bit young.  Young enough to recover from the embarrassment he earned.

[Rory4Pres]

Just call him Patrick Reed from now on.

[Warrior42111]

Question for the rules gurus.

 

In this case the attesters  did not see the infraction, but were told by another group, can you be DQ'd at this point, since the attesters did not see it?

 

I know with the pros, officials can look at replays, but now fans or tv spectators can not call in, curious if that is a similar situation.

[Mr. Bean]

7 minutes ago, Warrior42111 said:

Question for the rules gurus.

 

In this case the attesters  did not see the infraction, but were told by another group, can you be DQ'd at this point, since the attesters did not see it?

 

I know with the pros, officials can look at replays, but now fans or tv spectators can not call in, curious if that is a similar situation.

 

It does not really matter who saw the incident as long as that party is a reliable one and has no reason to lie to get the player in question into trouble. The key part is to evaluate the truthfulness of the testimony. After all, the two players already had a serious suspicion and the testimony of another contender only reinforced that suspicion.

[straightshot7]

Sounds like you handled it very well. 

I thought you were going to say you went back and found his giant divot ?

[Sawgrass]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

It does not really matter who saw the incident as long as that party is a reliable one and has no reason to lie to get the player in question into trouble. The key part is to evaluate the truthfulness of the testimony. After all, the two players already had a serious suspicion and the testimony of another contender only reinforced that suspicion.

Agreed.  
 

And 20.2e(2) allows the committee to DQ him after the close of the competition, and in addition to the original suspicions and the subsequent witnessing of the cheating by another player, the cheater’s subsequent admission to the OP is more information for the committee to contemplate before making a decision.

[Myherobobhope]

A good high school golfer I played with told a similar story about himself at that age, and how he learned a lesson and never cheated again... he want on to play golf at Texas. That golfers name? I don't remember... (I'm also not confident he never cheated again, but whatever)

 

Regardless, I think you did the right thing by confronting him and not making a huge deal about it... Hopefully he learns his lesson, you didn't "ruin his reputation" and moving forward, maybe he will be more honest.

 

I don't think you have any responsibility to do more than that, and I can't see it helping the kid by going public with it... He already had a reputation, so hopefully he gets it together. 16 is a tough age... 

[sui generis]

I'm one of the active referees here. When asked to ref high school boys, I know we'll have trouble. Fortunately, the real cheaters don't prosper; they don't last two weeks in college golf.

[evolvingwildes]

1 hour ago, Noles said:

I think you handled it well.  I would add one more step.  I'm not sure what you mean by a junior member but if his parents are members of the club, I would seek them out and let them know what happened.  If his parents are not members, I would inform the pro and suggest they not welcome him back as a junior member next year.

 

Agreed with Noles. I think you handled the situation well considering he ended up being a non-factor in the tournament, but may have looped in his parents as well.

 

Although I've played in Father/Son tournaments where I've witnessed cheating, so sometimes these are learned behaviors. In my case, the other team's ball was directly behind small tree as we came up the fairway ahead of them. We remarked about the poor luck of being stuck behind the small tree and headed over to our ball, just to turn around and find the other team playing from about 2-3 yards left of the tree with a clear line of site to the green. They too were not playing very well, so we didn't call them out on it, but in hindsight I wish we had.

[Krt22]

Do you need to witness a chunk to know a stroke had clearly been taken given you both saw where his 2nd shot landed? And does it matter if the folks on the 12th tee box were not his marker? They are still part of the field and thus can attest that they saw him take an extra stroke. 

[floyd]

It was good that you approached him, he probably will never do that again

[sailfishchris]

Being there was no real consequence - No lesson was learned. The kid played the second round? Did his cheating cost another member a chance to play the second round? The whole "we caught you" will do nothing to change his behavior. You stated he's a known cheat ....and cheated in his round with you! I'd bet he's been confronted before , denied it and the cycle continues. Nothing will happen till there's a real consequence for his actions. So, yeah, I don't think you did the kid a favor just speaking to him -IMO. I would have had the kid DQ'ed.

[Sawgrass]

5 minutes ago, sailfishchris said:

Being there was no real consequence - No lesson was learned. The kid played the second round? Did his cheating cost another member a chance to play the second round? The whole "we caught you" will do nothing to change his behavior. You stated he's a known cheat ....and cheated in his round with you! I'd bet he's been confronted before , denied it and the cycle continues. Nothing will happen till there's a real consequence for his actions. So, yeah, I don't think you did the kid a favor just speaking to him -IMO. I would have had the kid DQ'ed.

Yes people, let’s stop kicking the can further down the road waiting for someone else to stand up and do the uncomfortable hard work.  It only serves to victimize other innocent people.

[jonesry09]

Much like other, if he wasn't in contention of winning money that I love the way you handled it.  Sometimes public embarrassment is needed but at 16, hopefully this is enough to be a lesson learned.

[cardoustie]

Handled well IMO

[llewol007]

Good for you for following through and letting him know he was caught. Believe me he would have kept doing it moving forward and it will eventually catch up to him. With that being said, you did the right thing without having solid proof since you both did not see him play his shot. Protecting the field is the goal at the end of the day and you did just about what I would have done.

[LeoLeo99]

54 minutes ago, Sawgrass said:

Yes people, let’s stop kicking the can further down the road waiting for someone else to stand up and do the uncomfortable hard work.  It only serves to victimize other innocent people.

 
 I agree.  Think it was handled poorly.  The kid lied straight to your face.  I'll call him out in public.  

[No Gimmes]

Well done on handling a bad situation well.   If you a part of another incident with him, you should call him out. 

[C6 Snowboarder]

I would offer this option to the 16 yr old...  

 

his choice  - he goes back to the committee and admits his error to them by an email   or  He tells his parents of his error.  either one you want proof as to his choice.

 

I have grown kids and grandkid - all are very honorable. It is time to make this kid honorable if you wait till he is over 20  then other golfers will meet this kid in more serious cheating.  

[bnperrone]

1 hour ago, C6 Snowboarder said:

I would offer this option to the 16 yr old...  

 

his choice  - he goes back to the committee and admits his error to them by an email   or  He tells his parents of his error.  either one you want proof as to his choice.

 

I have grown kids and grandkid - all are very honorable. It is time to make this kid honorable if you wait till he is over 20  then other golfers will meet this kid in more serious cheating.  

You're damn right. The kid needs to own it. People want to let him slide because he's 16, but guess what? Admitting this and taking it like a man won't end his life. It won't get his family kicked out of the club. It won't get him arrested or anything of the sort. Owning up to it is the best chance to make a true, lasting, positive impact. Not to mention, if he gets into a match at some other course somewhere and pulls that same move he might find himself lying on the ground in a parking lot with his teeth scattered. I'm not advocating for that outcome AT ALL, but it's a very real possibility.

[Augster]

You should have gone to the committee with your suspicions, and the corroborative witness, and got the kid DQ’d and likely suspended. If he finished in the money, on anything, skins etc. it’s a calamity. 
 

Do the right thing and report it when you know for sure he cheated. Protect the field. 

[HatsForBats]

It's the Club Championship and there should be zero tolerance for cheating. You did a disservice to the field and the club. You still have time to make it as right as you can now that you made the error of not reporting it after you had a witness confirm your suspicions.

 

Heck, without the witness you should have reported it directly after the round and let the committee decide the outcome.

[golfortennis]

On 8/19/2020 at 6:32 PM, sui generis said:

I'm one of the active referees here. When asked to ref high school boys, I know we'll have trouble. Fortunately, the real cheaters don't prosper; they don't last two weeks in college golf.

 

The problem is how many honest golfers did they keep out of college golf since there are only so many spots?   One thing to say they will wash out, but what about the guys who never get the chance because of them?

[oikos1]

"My friend and I were both suspicious and questioned what happened, but the problem is that we did not witness him chunking his 3rd shot and therefore could not prove him wrong."

 

Seems pretty obvious there wasn't much the OP could do.  What are you going to do, go to a committee and say "I didn't see player A hit his shot, but I'm suspicious that he cheated".

 

Committees would be bogged down for weeks with that kind of nonsense.  You either saw it or you didn't, end of story.